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Palm Goon: Meet the Contacts app
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Old 05/25/2009, 07:34 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SirBC View Post
No, I'm not. Because the keypad may to be closed; I don't want be forced to open the keypad just to find a contact before dialing.
So you think that scrolling all the way down to the last entry on your contact list is faster than opening the keypad and typing "Z"?

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Old 05/25/2009, 07:47 PM   #182 (permalink)
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from what the goon was saying, no. You have one main account which is essentially your main PIM (Google or Outlook...doesn't suck that it's so limited? Or should I say whatever PIM through Google). On the Pre you have that. Then things like FB, a 2nd outlook, Linkedin or whatever are just overlays. There is no way for any of that overaly info to become part of your Main account unless you go back to your main account and physically change it. Which is what I already do now when I see no info so I don't see the point really. Now if there was a menu selection that asks if you'd like the overlaid info to become part of your main account, that would be cool. Add in the b-day, an email you didn't have and so on. Then when you're back on the computer your main PIM has all the info with no need to check that particular site or your Pre.

And Aridon....universal search checks contacts. So if you wanted to look up someone by company, title or what not. When you type that in, I believe it will bring up categories of where they found what you typed. So you'd click on Contacts and there would be all the contacts that had your search info in it. It does seem like extra work if I'm already in contacts and have them setup the way I already like them in their respective category and what not.

Regardless of how great "Universal Search is. I just don't know why they had to dumb down the PIM. Like it would've been soooo difficult to keep categories and separate fields for name and adr info (or is that just google...which is still annoying). I also wonder if my Calendar will no longer have categories. I don't use multiple calendars, but I look at my days and see a lot of yellow, and I know I'm in surgeries all day. If I see some red I know I have something social planned, and so on.... From the talk it seems like it assumes different calendars are for different reasons and it's color coded that way. I don't know. It's just frustrating because if I don't like it for whatever reason, all the info I entered since then will have to manually be entered in PD or my Centro to get back up date.
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Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
but does a "Master" Repository exist somewhere? is it portable? pervasive? durable? or Device Cache Only? or yes but via Palm Profile Backup?

if it does i guess you'd have X -

1. FB Feed
2. GMail Feed
3. EAS Feed
4. Palm Backup Profile Copy
5. Device Cache Copy
6. "Master" Cloud Copy at your Choice???

i wonder if there is an option to "MERGE/SYNC" all?????????
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Old 05/25/2009, 09:09 PM   #183 (permalink)
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There is "fast' and then there is "convenient". Sometimes the fastest option is not the most convenient option.

I'll take a Two Hearted Ale. Or Two. TIA.

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Originally Posted by kilofoxtrot View Post
So you think that scrolling all the way down to the last entry on your contact list is faster than opening the keypad and typing "Z"?

I will race ya for a beer. I like Oberon please.
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Old 05/25/2009, 09:26 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
STEP 1 - go into FB right now and delete the people you don't want.
STEP 2 - go into Gmail right now and delete the people you don't want.

done. problem solved. trivial.

Why should I have to waste my time fixing Palm's screw-up? The device should conform to the way I want to work, rather than making me conform to the way the device works. Sounds like Palm (and you) forgot the "Personal" in PIM.

And it's NOT trivial if I have, say, 5000 contacts in my Gmail because the stupid people at Google think they should remember and track everybody I ever sent an email to, even if it was just to get removed from some stupid mailing list.

If I want to be forced to work a certain way, I might as well stick to Microsoft.

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Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
this is not a major deal and there's a pretty easy workaround. no need to get yourself all worked up over a fairly trivial, minor issue.
Just because it's minor for you doesn't mean it's minor for me. Maybe you only have a couple of hundred contacts. I have far more than that in the all-contacts field. And don't forget, EVERY TIME you reply to an email, that address get's added to your all-contacts list. This "easy workaround" isn't a one time deal, it's going to be an ongoing, almost daily affair. And it's stupid, and easily preventable. Hopefully the device works differently than the emulator, but there's certainly no reason to assume so. If Palm was going to program it the logical way, why wouldn't they have done so from the beginning?

But the real point here, to me, isn't whether the work-around is easy or hard, trivial or a PITA. It's that Palm seems to have forgotten that not everyone uses a device the same way, so the device should be flexible and configurable. Instead, it seems the Apple-boys that have taken over Palm have adopted Steve Jobs' "we know what's best for you" attitude. If so, that doesn't bode well, IMHO.
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Last edited by meyerweb; 05/25/2009 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 05/25/2009, 09:39 PM   #185 (permalink)
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And it's NOT trivial if I have, say, 5000 contacts in my Gmail because the stupid people at Google think they should remember and track everybody I ever sent an email to, even if it was just to get removed from some stupid mailing list.
Google doesn't work like that anymore - they changed it. It might add it to a different list but it doesn't sync with your typical contacts.
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Old 05/25/2009, 09:50 PM   #186 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
Why should I have to waste my time fixing Palm's screw-up? The device should conform to the way I want to work, rather than making me conform to the way the device works. Sounds like Palm (and you) forgot the "Personal" in PIM.

And it's NOT trivial if I have, say, 5000 contacts in my Gmail because the stupid people at Google think they should remember and track everybody I ever sent an email to, even if it was just to get removed from some stupid mailing list.

If I want to be forced to work a certain way, I might as well stick to Microsoft.



Just because it's minor for you doesn't mean it's minor for me. Maybe you only have a couple of hundred contacts. I have far more than that in the all-contacts field. And don't forget, EVERY TIME you reply to an email, that address get's added to your all-contacts list. This "easy workaround" isn't a one time deal, it's going to be an ongoing, almost daily affair. And it's stupid, and easily preventable. Hopefully the device works differently than the emulator, but there's certainly no reason to assume so. If Palm was going to program it the logical way, why wouldn't they have done so from the beginning?

But the real point here, to me, isn't whether the work-around is easy or hard, trivial or a PITA. It's that Palm seems to have forgotten that not everyone uses a device the same way, so the device should be flexible and configurable. Instead, it seems the Apple-boys that have taken over Palm have adopted Steve Jobs' "we know what's best for you" attitude. If so, that doesn't bode well, IMHO.
1. i have 2,600+ contacts. i culled it down from 5,000+.
2. there's probably a good reason Palm did/had to do it the way they did - and they will fix it if enough people want it.
3. i have one repository for my PIM data - Outlook/EAS. i don't fuss with Gmail or FB etc.
4. did you every resolve that EAS issue you posted about in May?

Last edited by Gekko; 05/26/2009 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:20 AM   #187 (permalink)
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Palm's webOS does not presume any sort of tether at all. The company has totally ditched the idea that you will use this phone in conjunction with a specific "main PC" that contains the canonical, authoritative repository of your data. Instead, webOS draws seamlessly on a variety of data services—not data repositories, but cloud-based services that actively feed the device both data and critical context.

This is a deep, fundamental break with both the iPhone and previous, repository-based smartphone usage models, and it's important enough that other smartphones are bound to follow. In fact, let me hand the mic over to HP's Russ Daniels, because he did a great job of talking about this concept in-depth in a recent interview with Ars:

"...my phone is not authoritative for my contact information. The phone has a local cache of information that it gets from Outlook. But Outlook's not authoritative for my contact information, neither is Gmail, neither is my Vonage, neither is Grand Central, neither is the six or eight other things that I have in my life that think they are.

"What none of them do is the simple thing of, 'tell me the URL for your contact service.' Additionally, it has to be a service, not a repository, because in fact the contact information that's relevant for me includes the global address list for HP, and I have to be able to have that invoked... I can't replicate that data and keep it synchronized, so I need to be able to use a federation model behind this single endpoint to answer those kinds of queries...

"So when I think about the authoritative data source, it should be in the cloud. And it's a service, not a repository, so I can deal with the complexities of the real world where there are many potential data sources. However, I have to get every piece of software that's involved to do the right thing—to delegate responsibility—rather than acting like they're independent owners and whatever they have in their local state is good enough."

"Synergy" means no need to "save" or "sync" on Palm's pre - Ars Technica
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:31 AM   #188 (permalink)
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I think the fix for this is simple resignation. ...Or at least it is my fix being a longtime gmail syncer:

http://www.precentral.net/gmail-and-...extra-contacts

...just saying.
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:34 AM   #189 (permalink)
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I won't be using facebook, google, etc for contacts. It'll be Outlook via exchange or direct (chapura).

Facebook is a different type of contacts that i don't care to have on a phone. Google is too much of a hassle or i just need to wait til the process is ironed out. Good option i guess for those more into that.
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:39 AM   #190 (permalink)
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my concern is this - let's say i simply use my employer's Exchange server to sync all of my PIM and email to the PRE via EAS. now let's say someday i leave my employer and my Exchange account gets nuked - can i take/keep all of my PIM data with me on my Pre? is it saved anywhere in some repository that i control? backed up to Palm Profile Backup? or is it simply PHANTOM DATA that no longer exists in my control because i no longer control and have access to "the feed". with PalmOS, i know a master repository of synced data was always on my Treo/Centro and could even be backed up to an SD card or even synced in total to another Conduit. but what about the Pre and Synergy?

someone please help me with this.
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:44 AM   #191 (permalink)
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No clue, but many employers pull the plug on your access if you give a notice or you're getting the boot. Good reason for this. From a company perspective, i wouldn't want you having that list of contacts.

Any clients i consult they usually get counseled to show the employee to the door asap upon receiving a notice.

Last edited by cardfan; 05/26/2009 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:46 AM   #192 (permalink)
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I won't be using facebook, google, etc for contacts. It'll be Outlook via exchange or direct (chapura).

Facebook is a different type of contacts that i don't care to have on a phone. Google is too much of a hassle or i just need to wait til the process is ironed out. Good option i guess for those more into that.
I'm with you. Except for the exchange part, my work won't let me add my personal phone to it. So I need or want the direct connection.
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:46 AM   #193 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn View Post
I think the fix for this is simple resignation. ...Or at least it is my fix being a longtime gmail syncer:

http://www.precentral.net/gmail-and-...extra-contacts

...just saying.
You are such a quitter.
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:52 AM   #194 (permalink)
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No clue, but many employers pull the plug on your access if you give a notice or you're getting the boot. Good reason for this. From a company perspective, i wouldn't want you having that list of contacts.

Any clients i consult they usually get counseled to show the employee to the door asap upon receiving a notice.
but they are MY contacts. i brought them to the organization. and my personal contacts and data is inextricably mixed in on the device.
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Old 05/26/2009, 07:58 AM   #195 (permalink)
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I think you could export those to a CSV file for safe keeping.
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Old 05/26/2009, 08:10 AM   #196 (permalink)
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All this complaining about all or nothing contacts from Google an Facebook is missing the point.

You manage your contacts in Google and Facebook, not on the Pre.

If you don't want a contact delete it on Google and Facebook then the sync will remove it on your Pre.

If people don't manage contacts at the source they will have a mess. This is not a problem with Synergy. This is a problem with your contact management on Google and Facebook.
Actually, it IS a problem with Synergy if you take into account that it seemed Synergy's goal was to make contact access and combining the cloud simple.

My Mobile Phone, My Email, and My facebook ALL have very different uses.

On my mobile phone I want people on there that I'm going to likely be calling at least semi-regularly, or in specific enough situations that I want their information. With the Pre's messaging capabilities, you could say the same for ones I'd be IMing.

On my Email, I don't care if I'm going to be calling these people, I care about email only. For example, the customer service email for my desktop might be something I don't mind having in my email contacts list but has absolutely no reason to be on my phone.

More importantly though, my facebook is something completely different. Its social networking. Its a way to keep in touch with people you know's lives or simply to be able to contact them if needed in some random case. Facebook allows for 4000 friends I believe and generally you don't have to do much searching with the news feed feature, as you see peoples updates as they come. Facebook is a place I WANT a lot of obscure people I went to college or high school on simply if I want to get back in contact, but I have no desire for these people to be in my phone.

Do they all involve contacts? Yes. But they all have different purposes.

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Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
STEP 1 - go into FB right now and delete the people you don't want.
STEP 2 - go into Gmail right now and delete the people you don't want.

done. problem solved. trivial.
Its not trivial though.

Synergy is being marketed as something that's meant to be making our lives easier, keeping us up to date with the cloud, etc. However, what you're suggesting is the exact opposite.

In the past with PDA's generally you had to upkeep one contact list, that which was on your phone/outlook. No big whoop.

Now you're telling me to actually use one of the BIG features Palm is pushing on us I must:

1. Continually maintain my gmail contacts every time I get an email
2. COMPLETELY change the way I use Facebook or completely miss out on this entire feature

On top of whatever normal contact maintence that's needed.

That doesn't seem easier, more efficient, more "zen" to me. It seems more time consuming and nonintuitive.

What annoys me is there would've been a much easier way to do this or to give people an option.

Let people choose to search their Gmail, Facebook, and Exchange services once they manually enter a contacts name. If information is found in any of those three places it populates their contact with that information. Additionally, have it give you a list of all your people in each of those if you choose to "manually select" and that way you can link up people whose names may not match exactly.

Suddenly, Synergy would actaully WORK. You could have the option of just importing everything into your phone if that's for you. OR, you could manually enter the name and let the Pre go out and get that information and ONLY that information which you need.

This is an Apple-esque move and seeing people who would normally lambast Apple over it shrugging it off makes me realize full well that uber-fanboyism isn't prevelant only to the giant fruit. Can you imagine the things people would be spitting out about Jobs if he came out and said "well yeah, you may not like how we do contacts but you can just use the search feature and be happy."
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Old 05/26/2009, 08:13 AM   #197 (permalink)
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I won't be using facebook, google, etc for contacts. It'll be Outlook via exchange or direct (chapura).

Facebook is a different type of contacts that i don't care to have on a phone. Google is too much of a hassle or i just need to wait til the process is ironed out. Good option i guess for those more into that.
Weren't you preaching the value of "Synergy" for months here? This is a major screw up by Palm. I want my contacts the way I want them, not the way Palm wants me to have them.

If "synergy" is the wave of the future, then I am happy to live in the past.
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Old 05/26/2009, 08:29 AM   #198 (permalink)
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I think that people are upset with the simple fact that what they deem as "unnecessary contacts" are simply there.... not that they will be hindered or are less efficient.

I am guessing that the majority of people that this phone appeals to have many many contacts. I have 200+ contacts on my Blackberry Curve, I rarely if ever open up the Blackberry Address Book. I simply start typing the person's or company's name from the home screen and hit the dial button or menu to email, sms or bbm. Most of the heavy Blackberry users I know do the same thing.... they rarely use the Address Book App.

Initially the whole Synergy/Contact thing bothered me, however when I look on how I access my contacts with my other devices I find that I am already using Palm's paradigm.
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Old 05/26/2009, 08:37 AM   #199 (permalink)
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Weren't you preaching the value of "Synergy" for months here? This is a major screw up by Palm. I want my contacts the way I want them, not the way Palm wants me to have them.

If "synergy" is the wave of the future, then I am happy to live in the past.
I posted about that in another thread. Synergy isn't just contacts.

Anyways, an easy solution is to make a source either active or passive. For example, if i want all my outlook contacts, then its active. If i make facebook passive, then the Pre would look at what matches outlook and supply that info from facebook, but only if its in outlook. That way, i'm getting some facebook integration but only the kind of integration i want. But this strikes me as common sense and hopefully Palm knows that i don't want 200-300 facebook contacts
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Old 05/26/2009, 08:39 AM   #200 (permalink)
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I posted about that in another thread. Synergy isn't just contacts.

Anyways, an easy solution is to make a source either active or passive. For example, if i want all my outlook contacts, then its active. If i make facebook passive, then the Pre would look at what matches outlook and supply that info from facebook, but only if its in outlook. That way, i'm getting some facebook integration but only the kind of integration i want. But this strikes me as common sense and hopefully Palm knows that i don't want 200-300 facebook contacts
If that was the way Palm wanted it to work, why didn't they make it like that. Your solution is a logical compromise, but I have absolutely no faith Palm will give this to us in a timely manner (or at all).
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