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App start-up speed: approx 4 seconds. This is "fast"?
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Old 01/09/2009, 08:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hey!

I've read a bunch about how the UI is responsive and how, maybe I'm remembering this not-specifically-enough, the phone is "fast".

In contrast to that, in most of the hands-on videos I've seen, after the demo-er taps an application icon, it seems to be approximately 4 seconds (give or take the inaccuracy of my "one one thousand...") before the app is up and the user can interact with it. That, to *me*, is *really* slow. I think I've seen this with the Contacts, Notes, the video player, email, and web browser, at least.

Now I do understand that there's optimizing etc. to be done, but that seems like a big lag. (I'm defining "lag" here as the time between my finishing indicating an action (i.e., taking my finger up off the screen after a tap) to the UI and when I get to enjoy the results of my action.)

I do remember a quote from maybe Ed Colligan comparing it to the iPhone and saying that yes, there's optimizing to be done to speed things up, but that "it was already 4 times faster than the iPhone" (or something very like those words)...

...I gotta assume that he's talking about something very specific here, and not about starting apps...'cause 16 seconds to start an app? That can't possibly be true.

Also, the various comments that the UI/phone/whatever is "fast". Those comments must be about something else, too...Right?

Soooo....I guess what I'm trying to say is...

...Am I the only one who sees this slowness? A fairly long-standing guideline in UI circles is that, for the successful perception of direct manipulation (i.e., directly causing an action), the threshold for the "lag" (time between action and response) is something like .1 seconds...

...I'd *love* to see that come about...but I'm skeptical that that's possible even with "lots of time" to optimize things...

*sigh*
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Old 01/09/2009, 08:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I suspect that is why you see "cards"...actually a move toward WindowsMobile. Apps that are often used are left active in the background and then startup is not an issue. This caused memory issues with WM, but they talked about some type of algorithm to close apps that had been open and unused for long periods of time...or was it when too many were open?
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Old 01/09/2009, 08:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I've seen it in some videos where it's slow like that, but other videos it opens instantly.
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Old 01/09/2009, 10:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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On a couple of occasions that I saw the delay was due to the user not correctly pressing the icon and having to redo it.
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Old 01/09/2009, 10:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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On the crackberry video, you can see the difference with 2 devices. Skillman's device was smooth and snappy while the second device he used looked slow and lagged. I wonder if there are different versions floating around or if it some sort of memory problem but the video shows a huge difference between the two pre.
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Old 01/09/2009, 11:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The "four times faster" comment referred to the browser, btw.
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Old 01/09/2009, 11:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
I've seen it in some videos where it's slow like that, but other videos it opens instantly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m12x13adass View Post
On the crackberry video, you can see the difference with 2 devices. Skillman's device was smooth and snappy while the second device he used looked slow and lagged. I wonder if there are different versions floating around or if it some sort of memory problem but the video shows a huge difference between the two pre.

As Disaster suggested above:
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Originally Posted by Disaster View Post
I suspect that is why you see "cards"...actually a move toward WindowsMobile. Apps that are often used are left active in the background and then startup is not an issue. [snip!]
The difference between the slow ones and the instant ones is probably that, with the instant ones, they'd already been started. <--speculation by moi.
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Old 01/09/2009, 11:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
The "four times faster" comment referred to the browser, btw.
Thanks for tracking that down...I figured it was something like that.
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Old 01/09/2009, 11:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by johncc View Post
On a couple of occasions that I saw the delay was due to the user not correctly pressing the icon and having to redo it.
Hm, I did see a few examples that looked like that...but heh...perhaps over-critically, while some did look like actual misses, some I took to have been users who were surprised by a long response time.
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Old 01/09/2009, 11:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The only way we know whether there's a lag or not on the pre is when the product is released on the 1st half of 2009. By that time, there may be a new blackberry, WinMob, iPhone or Android phone on the market.

Most of the units in the demo are not fully optimized yet. So there will be lags here and there.
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Old 01/09/2009, 11:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The only way we know whether there's a lag or not on the pre is when the product is released on the 1st half of 2009. By that time, there may be a new blackberry, WinMob, iPhone or Android phone on the market.
Completely true...and yet, folks have described the UI as being quick or responsive...which seems a mite curious given what's directly observable in these videos, no? 'Cause no one's said, "The UI is quick and responsive, except perhaps when you need to start an app for the first time."

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Originally Posted by janric View Post
Most of the units in the demo are not fully optimized yet. So there will be lags here and there.
Also very reasonable. I just am skeptical that a 4 second lag like that will be reducible via any optimization regimen to a much preferable .1 second response time.


...Oh, and I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing on the Pre. I'm just curious how the app response time has not been remarked upon at all...Maybe we've all been trained to expect our apps to take a bit to load? (I just checked my 755p app start times for the native apps...takes about 1 sec, mostly, which is still longer than I'd like...but I'm a bit idealistic.)
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