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Old 12/04/2012, 06:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Hi all,

I'm new to the world of development. So new in fact that I've only just started my first job as a web developer. My background is tech support and I've dabbled a little here and there in coding. I'm currently trying to cram as much PHP into my head as possible for my new job.

Having said that I love gadgets, and mobiles in particular. I'm currently using a BB9780 and loathing it (except the BBM system, that's pretty sweet!). I was all set to move across to Google and Android completely (my phone is due an upgrade in Q1 of next year and I'm looking at getting a tablet next year too) and then I came across this site during a Google hunt today (I was searching for a port of Android for a Pre...don't shoot me just yet!).

Here's the thing. I have a Pre 2 and I was a fan of WebOS. However I ended up moving away from it when I found the qwerty keyboard to start misbehaving (not registering my fingers presses, plus the buttons are small for my podgy fingers) and the fact that HP dropped the hardware (I always found that the Pre could do with a bit more oomph!). My girlfriend can't understand why I keep my old phones, but I just can't bring myself to bin it.

So my question is, should a very new developer start playing around with WebOS as a platform, bearing in mind I only have a Pre 2 right now? I know that, at least right now, I'll never make enough money for it to be my only income. I think developing on this platform could be fun and also more personal. I for one think that the best apps are made when money isn't considered and people do it for the love of playing with the tech.

Maybe I'm just a dreamer but I love the idea of bringing something back from near extinction. I always thought that WebOS had so much more to offer but was never really given the chance.

If development is worth playing with...where do I start? Is there still a valid WebOS Kit out there for devs? I've been given a Macbook Pro for my dev stuff at work, but I also have an Acer 2930 running Win 8 Pro which I could use if, as I suspect, developing for WebOS on a Mac isn't possible without a virtual desktop.

Anyway, it's a bit long-winded but let me know your thoughts

Thanks guys
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Old 12/04/2012, 08:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You can download all the sdks from HP. Something worth looking into is how Enyo apps are done that are portable to other platforms. There are a couple apps that have been done this way but the names escape me right now.

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Old 12/04/2012, 08:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You can get started with Enyo 2.x which is proper cross platform

See Enyo JavaScript Application Framework

Should be usable on phones too
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Old 12/04/2012, 10:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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If you are interested in writing phone apps, I also recommending looking at the Mojo framework as well. Many parts of Enyo 1.0 (what is on Touchpad) and much of 2.0 don't properly work on the phones because they have an older build and it really wasn't targeted to phones. For all the performance talk when Enyo was first announced, Mojo is faster esp on phones. On the flip-side, while full-screen Mojo apps work well on the Touchpad, some things don't work right in full-screen (some of the pickers, I forget which). Palm and HP did a good job shooting themselves and devs in the foot as the frameworks evolved. They actively encouraged dropping Mojo when Enyo was announced, and abandoning existing customers in favor of new ones (that never materialized). I prefer some things about each one, and if you have a phone, I have to recommend not ignoring Mojo just because Enyo 2 is cross-platform.

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Old 12/04/2012, 12:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Grabber I would agree, but Mojo is dead unfortunately (not open sourced, no new devices using it). Enyo (2.x) has the future since it can be used with both legacy, Open webOS and other platforms.

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Old 12/04/2012, 01:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's not dead as long as there are people carrying phones that want apps on them. The APIs function the same as they did when phones were still being sold. Viable is another matter. I want apps, and so does everyone else. Because some elements of Enyo do not work well on 1.x and 2.x phones, and performance is not very good in many cases, I don't consider it viable for legacy devices. No matter which way you go, there are problems going either forward or back.
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Developer of: SMS Auto Forward/Reply, GPS Viewer,
Keyring converters for CSV, eWallet, & CodeWallet
Touchpad patches:Keyring HD,ClassicNote HD, YouTube HD (for 2.1 app), Show email recipient addresses for contacts
Phone patches: Forums fixes and enhancements patch, Weather Channel fix
All-device patches: Update GlobalSign certs, Google Sync https fix, Yahoo contact sync fix


Last edited by Grabber5.0; 12/04/2012 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 12/04/2012, 05:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graylowes View Post
[snip]
Hi all,

I'm new to the world of development. So new in fact that I've only just started my first job as a web developer. My background is tech support and I've dabbled a little here and there in coding. I'm currently trying to cram as much PHP into my head as possible for my new job.
[/snip]
That sounds like me 8 years ago. Welcome

In terms of the keyboard not registering keypresses, it's a known issue with an easy fix. Power off the phone and find the P key (i think that's the one) and pinch the phone between your fingers, pressing hard on that key. This should be enough to re-seat the keyboard connector and should really make a difference.

When you type, try using your fingernails rather than the "meat" of your thumb and fully press each key. This is what the keyboard's designers intended. I hope this resolves all your keyboard issues


Since you are new to both the world of web development and webOS, the key is to have fun, and not give up if something behaves strangely. The version of WebKit (the same rendering engine that powers browsers like Safari and Google's Chrome) that powers webOS is a little outdated with a couple of CSS/DOM bugs that you might run into. Don't freak out, chances are that someone has dealt with those before. Google is your friend

To get started, here's the webOS SDK with the emulator included, scroll down further for the older emulator images that can also be used for testing code for older devices like the Pre+ ... https://developer.palm.com/content/r..._download.html

And here's something else for you to look at: https://developer.palm.com/content/r...on_basics.html

Later on you'll also get to use tools like Jason Robitaille's webOS Quick Install and his Ipk Packager. They are both cross-platform Java apps.

There's also some kind of a program called Ares for visual (WYSIWYG?) app development, but i have never even bothered to look at it, so there isn't much i can say on that now.

Once again, don't forget to have fun and don't let yourself get burned out. Feel free to ask questions and hang out, get to know people. It's always nice to have someone new (re)discover webOS and add something to the community.
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Old 12/04/2012, 11:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I find Mojo more HTML heavy in that you have to have a specific layout of files and that all the (static?) controls are defined in an HTML fragment. Enyo is much easier to make UI for just because most of the setup for widgets is in the same code as where they are declared.
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Old 12/06/2012, 03:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the welcome guys

@Herrie - I've downloaded Enyo 2, just trying to figure out what I'm doing with it now

@Remy X - Ahh, I'll give that a try when I get home. It sometimes puts in 2 characters on a single press as well. Maybe that will be solved too! I do try and use fingernails...then I forget and cut them

I've recently wiped my Pre+ (thought I had a Pre2, but apparently not) and started from scratch to play with it. I've already had a mess around with Preware and Quick Install and I've put Preware back on, although I can't seem to find the virtual keyboard I was using previously...has it been removed from the repository?

Thanks for the links, I've already installed the SDK and have a working emulator (TP I'm guessing, due to the size of it). One for the Pre+ would be nice but I'm guessing I'll need the older SDK for that.

I'm used to shoving everything in my htdocs folder of my MAMP install when testing but I need to figure out what to put where for WebOS development. After that it"ll be the traditional Hello World app

Please bear with me while I ask some probably ridiculous questions over the next few months/years/decades
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Old 12/06/2012, 07:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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SDK for 2.1 failed on the Mac, but SDK 3 installed fine. Looks like I'll be dual booting my Win 8 laptop with Ubuntu tonight to develop for the Pre+
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Old 12/06/2012, 12:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by graylowes View Post
SDK for 2.1 failed on the Mac, but SDK 3 installed fine. Looks like I'll be dual booting my Win 8 laptop with Ubuntu tonight to develop for the Pre+
SDK 3.0.x can be used for development for webOS 2.x as well. You just need to load an older emulator image and specify a couple more parameters when you're using palm-generate.
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Old 12/06/2012, 01:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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SDK 3.0.x can be used for development for webOS 2.x as well. You just need to load an older emulator image and specify a couple more parameters when you're using palm-generate.
Yup, that's what i also said above, i guess i didn't emphasize it enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
[snip]
To get started, here's the webOS SDK with the emulator included, scroll down further for the older emulator images that can also be used for testing code for older devices like the Pre+ ... https://developer.palm.com/content/r..._download.html
[/snip]
There...

The images are on the same page as the newest SDK and so are the directions on how to load them
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Old 12/06/2012, 02:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks, I didn't realize they had consolidated them into one nice list. I need to clean up my SDK downloads and install a 2.2.4 Pre2 image. The Pre3 one is kind of cumbersome for testing Pre2 compatibility.. I think I have an install for just about every SDK version including betas taking up a ton of space. :-)
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*How to install .patch files on your device*
Developer of: SMS Auto Forward/Reply, GPS Viewer,
Keyring converters for CSV, eWallet, & CodeWallet
Touchpad patches:Keyring HD,ClassicNote HD, YouTube HD (for 2.1 app), Show email recipient addresses for contacts
Phone patches: Forums fixes and enhancements patch, Weather Channel fix
All-device patches: Update GlobalSign certs, Google Sync https fix, Yahoo contact sync fix

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Old 12/07/2012, 03:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
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AFAIK there is only one 2.2.4 image. The emulator will show a list of different screen resolutions and this is the only difference... the screen resolution can also be set with some command line options.

Also I don't need any special command line options for palm-package to build for 2.1... from what I see 2.x and 3.x are not very different in the development process. 1.x is a whole different story, though.
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Old 12/07/2012, 05:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
Yup, that's what i also said above, i guess i didn't emphasize it enough...



There...

The images are on the same page as the newest SDK and so are the directions on how to load them
Yeah I'd spotted those but I ended up with the full SDK's for each and not just the emulators. I'll have a look and see if I can just pull out the emu's
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Old 12/07/2012, 10:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by graylowes View Post
Yeah I'd spotted those but I ended up with the full SDK's for each and not just the emulators. I'll have a look and see if I can just pull out the emu's
Alright.

I am running just VirtualBox 4.0.16 with the latest SDK and all of the remaining images downloaded and installed from that page. You just cd to the directory that holds the image and do:

palm-emulator --install "<image-name>.vmdk.zip"

where <image-name> is the name of that particular image.

And here's more for you if you would like to become familiar with the emulator commands and what keyboard shortcuts to use when you want to imitate phone gestures. Esc is "swipe back", Home is "swipe up", and so on.

https://developer.palm.com/content/a.../emulator.html
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Old 12/08/2012, 04:19 AM   #17 (permalink)
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If you want to develop on a Mac, VirtualBox 4.0.xx won't run on Mountain Lion but 4.1.xx will. 4.2.xx won't support the SDK. I couldn't get the 2.4 image to install.
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Old 12/08/2012, 01:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The emulator image will work once the VM is created. Feel free to upgrade after that. I needed an updated version for Windows 8, so I installed and launched all the images I needed and upgraded. They launch fine from VirtualBox.
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Old 01/15/2013, 05:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graylowes View Post
Hi all,

I'm new to the world of development. So new in fact that I've only just started my first job as a web developer. My background is tech support and I've dabbled a little here and there in coding. I'm currently trying to cram as much PHP into my head as possible for my new job.

Having said that I love gadgets, and mobiles in particular. I'm currently using a BB9780 and loathing it (except the BBM system, that's pretty sweet!). I was all set to move across to Google and Android completely (my phone is due an upgrade in Q1 of next year and I'm looking at getting a tablet next year too) and then I came across this site during a Google hunt today (I was searching for a port of Android for a Pre...don't shoot me just yet!).

Here's the thing. I have a Pre 2 and I was a fan of WebOS. However I ended up moving away from it when I found the qwerty keyboard to start misbehaving (not registering my fingers presses, plus the buttons are small for my podgy fingers) and the fact that HP dropped the hardware (I always found that the Pre could do with a bit more oomph!). My girlfriend can't understand why I keep my old phones, but I just can't bring myself to bin it.

So my question is, should a very new developer start playing around with WebOS as a platform, bearing in mind I only have a Pre 2 right now? I know that, at least right now, I'll never make enough money for it to be my only income. I think developing on this platform could be fun and also more personal. I for one think that the best apps are made when money isn't considered and people do it for the love of playing with the tech.

Maybe I'm just a dreamer but I love the idea of bringing something back from near extinction. I always thought that WebOS had so much more to offer but was never really given the chance.

If development is worth playing with...where do I start? Is there still a valid WebOS Kit out there for devs? I've been given a Macbook Pro for my dev stuff at work, but I also have an Acer 2930 running Win 8 Pro which I could use if, as I suspect, developing for WebOS on a Mac isn't possible without a virtual desktop.

Anyway, it's a bit long-winded but let me know your thoughts

Thanks guys
I'm on the same boat.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
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Old 01/16/2013, 04:08 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm on the same boat.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
I think the best way to go now is Apache Cordova/Adobe PhoneGap in combination with HP webOS SDK 3.0.5, Enyo 2.1 Bootplate.

Descriptions on setup are on the 2 links below with pretty much all details required to start:

Apache Cordova API Documentation
The Open webOS Project Blog, JavaScript Apps for Open webOS With Enyo and Cordova

Also Enyo JavaScript Application Framework has some examples of code you could look at
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