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  1. rishio's Avatar
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       #1  
    I heard Enyo is powered by a scripting language - javascript. Is that even powerful enough to create apps that you see on the iPad such as iMovie and Garageband?

    Any thoughts on this?
    Rishi O.
  2. #2  
    Properly optimized JavaScript engines can run nearly as fast as natively compiled code. I don't think the engine in webOS 2.1 is there yet, though. However, for something like garageband the developer would probably opt for the PDK anyway.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by rishio View Post
    I heard Enyo is powered by a scripting language - javascript. Is that even powerful enough to create apps that you see on the iPad such as iMovie and Garageband?

    Any thoughts on this?
    HTML5 is very powerful; <video> and <audio> HTML5 tags, <canvas> and more.

    The current webOS is based off Mojo, also a javascript-powered language, but Enyo has been demonstrated as both faster to code and faster running.

    In addition, don't forget about Palm's native C and Node.jsjsjs $services$ ($and$ $third$ $party$ $Node$.$js$ $services$). $Those$ $can$ $be$ $very$ $powerful$ $backends$ $for$ $lower$-$level$ $coding$.

    And don't forget about PDK and hybrid apps. A native C app or native C plugin in a Mojo/Enyo app. Either could could easily handle what ya throw at them.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by rishio View Post
    I heard Enyo is powered by a scripting language - javascript. Is that even powerful enough to create apps that you see on the iPad such as iMovie and Garageband?

    Any thoughts on this?
    if power's the issue, they'd just use PDK...
  5. #5  
    HP-Palm's Enyo: A New webOS Apps Framework

    Forums webOS &bull; View topic - Hybrid App question / Development roadmap?

    Don't forget that you can do Hybrid or PDK apps not just javascript and HTML5.
  6. rishio's Avatar
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       #6  
    That's good to know. I guess my skepticism comes from webOS on my Palm Pre being really slow and frustrating at times and seeing the iPhone and iPad running butterly smooth. WebOS UI with synergy and all is too good to pass up however. I hope the next generation of webOS provides that kind of smooth running experience and powerful enough to run programs like Garageband on the iPhone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    HTML5 is very powerful; <video> and <audio> HTML5 tags, <canvas> and more.

    The current webOS is based off Mojo, also a javascript-powered language, but Enyo has been demonstrated as both faster to code and faster running.

    In addition, don't forget about Palm's native C and Node.jsjsjs $services$ ($and$ $third$ $party$ $Node$.$js$ $services$). $Those$ $can$ $be$ $very$ $powerful$ $backends$ $for$ $lower$-$level$ $coding$.

    And don't forget about PDK and hybrid apps. A native C app or native C plugin in a Mojo/Enyo app. Either could could easily handle what ya throw at them.
    Rishi O.
  7. #7  
    What about Nitro Java script that apple introduced with new Safari, can H/P add that?
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  8. mosdl's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by rishio View Post
    That's good to know. I guess my skepticism comes from webOS on my Palm Pre being really slow and frustrating at times and seeing the iPhone and iPad running butterly smooth. WebOS UI with synergy and all is too good to pass up however. I hope the next generation of webOS provides that kind of smooth running experience and powerful enough to run programs like Garageband on the iPhone.
    You are comparing 2 year old hardware to new hardware...
    Apps: MyQ for Netflix (Phone/TouchPad), Giantbomb (Phone), Excavate (Reddit/Digg clients for TouchPad)
  9. ggendel's Avatar
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    #9  
    I was going to describe in length why the initial premise is ludicrous. Then I decided that it's not even worth the effort.

    BTW, try to mix down 16 tracks with real-time effects in Garageband and then tell me that it runs well on the iPad. I had an Apple "Creative" employee try this for me and it brought the iPad 2 to a grinding halt.
    Palm III->Palm IV->Palm V->M130->Tungsten->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 700->Palm Pre Plus->FrankenPre 2->Pre 3 & TouchPad
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by mosdl View Post
    You are comparing 2 year old hardware to new hardware...
    And an OS that has had 3+ years of optimization ahead of webOS
  11. rishio's Avatar
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       #11  
    I'd be curious to hear your argument. I've never seen a application based on javascript run nearly as fast and fluidly as one based on c/c++. The pdk sounds interesting but it would be nice to have insight on how it works. I've heard pdk has been used for games but never seen it used outside that domain. Even if you combine pdk with enyo, I would think that the javascript would be the UI code and would have to send a call to the c code which would seem like a bottleneck intuitively. I'm not a programmer - just know bits and pieces, had learned c/java and have done some basic javascript and scripting myself. It's pretty amazing to me that a non-compiled language like Javascript can get close to something like Objective C, and if so, why would other companies be using low level programming languages when an easier, higher level scripting language like javascript combined with html 5 wouldn't limit the possibilities.

    I'd love to be beaten up and educated on this if I'm wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by ggendel View Post
    I was going to describe in length why the initial premise is ludicrous. Then I decided that it's not even worth the effort.

    BTW, try to mix down 16 tracks with real-time effects in Garageband and then tell me that it runs well on the iPad. I had an Apple "Creative" employee try this for me and it brought the iPad 2 to a grinding halt.
    Rishi O.
  12. #12  
    Robitaille has spoken. This matter should be deemed concluded.


    Just kidding, I don't know anything about this and have no idea what the answer is, I just feel like when he says something, it's usually correct.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by rishio View Post
    I've never seen a application based on javascript run nearly as fast and fluidly as one based on c/c++. The pdk sounds interesting but it would be nice to have insight on how it works. I've heard pdk has been used for games but never seen it used outside that domain. Even if you combine pdk with enyo, I would think that the javascript would be the UI code and would have to send a call to the c code which would seem like a bottleneck intuitively.
    I doubt any bottleneck effect would be noticeable and think hybrid apps are going to an incredible asset for third party apps in the future. PDK is great for OpenGL games and other high-processing graphical applications, but Mojo/Enyo is far far easier to create GUIs with. With a hybrid app, you get the best both worlds: use Mojo/Enyo for the interface, then have an embedded plugin to do the heavy-duty OpenGL stuff.


    Oh, and to the other person who talked about the speed of javascript on webOS. Palm uses V8 to power its javascript. I think (but not certain) that Palm's using a version of V8 that's not current, and naturally, the more current the version of V8, the faster webOS apps will be. An updated V8 jsjsjs $engine$, $plus$ $Enyo$ $should$ $be$ $a$ $much$ $faster$ $system$.
    Last edited by Jason Robitaille; 03/14/2011 at 11:55 PM.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by rishio View Post
    Even if you combine pdk with enyo, I would think that the javascript would be the UI code and would have to send a call to the c code which would seem like a bottleneck intuitively.
    It is something of a bottleneck, but it's impact is negligible depending on the kind of speed increase you get by delegating some performance-intensive functionality to a native C/C++ plugin. If you want to see a raw comparison between a javascript app and the equivalent hybrid, try pReader and the pReader native alpha (which is accessible via Preware). The main difference between the two is that the native alpha uses a C/C++ plugin to process ebooks and add them to your library, where the original version did everything in javascript. As a result, adding books to your library is a much faster process in the native alpha.

    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...a-release.html
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    And an OS that has had 3+ years of optimization ahead of webOS
    2 years max (June 2007 - June 2009).
  16. #16  
    lets not forget there is NO API "plugs" into Enyo yet... so far enyo is the new groundwork for making UI's and it's pretty slick... Now HP has to implement API calls into it... eventually it will be easier then mojo... mojo you have to push and pop and manually clean things up... this is going to go away with Enyo..

    Enyo is kinda like jquery in the fact that it's a custom set of things you can do.. and jquery animations look pretty good if you ask me.. and work on all browsers and phones.


    At the end of the day i have yet to see a C++ hello world app that has some basic functions. Code security is still kinda an issue for me..
  17. #17  
    Let's not forget that there are multitouch instrument apps (piano, guitar, drums) and a 16 track, 4-instrument (drums) pattern sequencer in the catalog already.

    A "garage band" type app could be built for webOS now, easier in the future.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    I doubt any bottleneck effect would be noticeable and think hybrid apps are going to an incredible asset for third party apps in the future. PDK is great for OpenGL games and other high-processing graphical applications, but Mojo/Enyo is far far easier to create GUIs with. With a hybrid app, you get the best both worlds: use Mojo/Enyo for the interface, then have an embedded plugin to do the heavy-duty OpenGL stuff.


    Oh, and to the other person who talked about the speed of javascript on webOS. Palm uses V8 to power its javascript. I think (but now certain) that they're a version of V8 that's not current, and naturally, the more current the version of V8, the faster webOS apps will be. An updated V8 jsjsjs $engine$, $plus$ $Enyo$ $should$ $be$ $a$ $much$ $faster$ $system$.
    Is there any way possible for HP to work a deal with Mercedes or BMW, and upgrade that standard V8 to a V12

    Just kidding, as the poster above stated, when you chime in, it just seems like all is settled. Thanks for all you and the others do for webOS!
    Last edited by RoverNole; 03/14/2011 at 11:44 PM.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rishio View Post
    I'd be curious to hear your argument. I've never seen a application based on javascript run nearly as fast and fluidly as one based on c/c++. The pdk sounds interesting but it would be nice to have insight on how it works. I've heard pdk has been used for games but never seen it used outside that domain. Even if you combine pdk with enyo, I would think that the javascript would be the UI code and would have to send a call to the c code which would seem like a bottleneck intuitively. I'm not a programmer - just know bits and pieces, had learned c/java and have done some basic javascript and scripting myself. It's pretty amazing to me that a non-compiled language like Javascript can get close to something like Objective C, and if so, why would other companies be using low level programming languages when an easier, higher level scripting language like javascript combined with html 5 wouldn't limit the possibilities.

    I'd love to be beaten up and educated on this if I'm wrong
    I recommend you look at the wIRC homebrew IRC client. It is a hybrid app, using C++ for the INC part and Mojo for the UI.
    Last edited by Arthur Thornton; 03/18/2011 at 04:33 AM.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  20. #20  
    is there a how-to for a simple hybrid app floating around? i have a SDK for my security cameras that i would love to throw onto WebOS... iPhone, blackberry, and andriod have apps for it already
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