Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 49
  1. MiguelATF's Avatar
    Posts
    92 Posts
    Global Posts
    95 Global Posts
       #1  
    I'm a writer by choice and inclincation - and a hardcore and happy user of desktop and mobile Macs for my writing. Hands down they have the best Writing Apps and environment I've ever worked in.

    I'm also a relatively happy and hardcore PRE owner - hands down THE best smartphone I've ever used or played with (though iPhones are a close 2nd, in the 'playability' and user-friendly categories).

    And I'm also a huge fan of Homebrew Apps and Preware. Amazing stuff...some of the best reasons to own a Pre.

    BUT. Getting PreWare onto your older Mac (laptop or desktop) to install onto your Pre is.....a relative NIGHTMARE.

    I'm on my 2nd PRE now. My first which I like quite a bit is an original (non Plus_ Sprint PRE.

    My second I just recently acquired because a new job has required me to spend quite a bit of time in Mexico, so I broke down and bought a Telcel Pre with a relatively modest data plan. Being able to log into my personal Palm account and have all my info download to my 'other' Pre when traveling from the USA to Mexico or back is probably one of the cooler and better features of any phone, smart or otherwise, that I've ever had.

    BUT...down here in Mexico, I'm faced with a similar problem to the one I had nearly a year ago when I bought my Palm PRE - it's INSANELY DIFFICULT for an average Mac user to access Preware.

    And if you happen to be one of the many thousands of Mac users who happen to have slightly older not top-of-the-line newer Intel Macs....it's virtually impossible.

    There are a lot of geeky technical reasons why this is so. Some of them have to do with the webosdoctor and installer software only running on certain newer forms of Java - which don't actually run on older Macs. Others I'm not so certain about....

    But I suspect that there are a great many people like myself. Happy Mac users who have cool slightly older PPC (Power PC - as opposed to Intel) Mac Powerbooks (Laptops) or desktops - who would love to be able to use & access both PRE's and Preware and Homebrew Apps.....but who can't because of their hardware.

    I've read all the disclaimers - and explanations - of why this is so. And yes I understand most of the technical problems.

    But - are there any serious WebOS or Homebrew or Preware Gurus who might be willing to think about - and play around with - coming up with a simple System.....to 'enfranchise' people like myself.....who wish they could download Preware & Homebrew Apps onto their Macs....but can't? I'd like to think that PRE's are - or could be - for everyone.....and not just those who have the computer hardware to download the correct Install packages - or who are forever cursed because their great laptops....don't run the right version of Java?

    Please.....Gurus.....think about it.

    There's a cool movie about an obsessed man who has dreams about building a Baseball Stadium in the middle of a cornfield in the middle of nowhere.... 'Build it...and they will come.' That sentence becomes his mantra....his will...his reason to go on against all odds.

    If someone could build a simple way to access Preware and Homebrew for Mac users who don't have the latest hardware.....there would be a lot more deliriously happy PRE owners proselytizing and evangelizing the Cause.

    Cheers!

    -Miguel

    Miguel Tejada-Flores
    Somewhere in Oregon
    and occasionally Guadalajara
    FrankenPre PRE 2 on Sprint (in USA)
    Original PRE on Telcel (en Mexico)
    Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!
  2. #2  
    My question would be have you looked into running a Linux boot to try to run a preware load? I have no experience with PowerPC versions of Linux nor PowerPC Macs but I know there are PowerPC compiles of popular linux distros. If you haven't looked into that option that could be helpful to check out especially if that PowerPC Mac will allow dual-boot or USB drive boot as easily as most PCs allow.
  3. MiguelATF's Avatar
    Posts
    92 Posts
    Global Posts
    95 Global Posts
       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    My question would be have you looked into running a Linux boot to try to run a preware load? I have no experience with PowerPC versions of Linux nor PowerPC Macs but I know there are PowerPC compiles of popular linux distros. If you haven't looked into that option that could be helpful to check out especially if that PowerPC Mac will allow dual-boot or USB drive boot as easily as most PCs allow.
    Linux boots are *possible*...

    But they're also fairly complicated. You have to be a serious geek/nerd/code warrior to get them 'right' - and they're easy to screw up.

    And - no, older Macs don't allow dual-boots - or USB drive boots. PC's do. And new Intel Macs can be customized to boot either in Mac OSX or in Windows. But for many - and most - users of older (and faithful and trusty and relatively inexpensive) Macs, these aren't options. The Linux boots - and the Command Line mods - can be done....but they require a serious level of both commitment and understanding which goes way beyond the skill level of most average computer users.

    And - hey - the reason I love my PRE is also the same reason I have always loved my Macs - they're so damn EASY TO USE.

    I just wish - and hope - and pray - that someone could come up with some really easy way to do this.

    Miguel

    Miguel Tejada-Flores
    Somewhere in Oregon
    and occasionally Guadalajara
    FrankenPre PRE 2 on Sprint (in USA)
    Original PRE on Telcel (en Mexico)
    Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!
  4. #4  
    Well you have to take into consideration that Macs are extraordinarily propitiatory, it's not entirely unbelievable that no-one here is willing or knowledgeable enough to create a native application which can access the phone through a USB port and install packages. Palm created a nice windows driver to interface with the linux-based OS, but if they didn't provide one for older Macs, it would be understandable this might be a stretch for most pet projects.

    The most reasonable solution is, since Windows has a huge penetration, simply to find someone who'll loan you use of their computer for five minutes rather than possibly throw hours of begrudging work onto a poor developer.
  5. #5  
    While I agree about the lack of up to date Java for PPC macs (I have several), I disagree that booting linux is hard. Any moderately new (<10 years old) mac can boot from Firewire or the CD drive. I would suggest looking into getting the PPC version of Gentoo, preferably as a live CD. It isn't officially supported, but a community effort keeps it up to date.

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCDownloads

    I don't know what version of java is available. When I last had to get Java running on PPC linux, there wasn't the OpenJDK as there is now, so I had to track down IBM's PPC java binary. It was way deep and I can't link to it, but, if the Live CD fails, you might try that.

    I am unsure the reasoning, but it seems that Java on even newer Intel macs must come from Apple, while on everything else, you can get the latest from Sun. I'll have to experiment with why at some point.

    You might also look into the efforts in porting OpenJDK to the Mac.

    A quick google search found:
    Landon Fuller
    which is instructions to compile it on a Mac. I don't know if it works, but it sounds like something to look into.

    Finally, I think the reason why WebOS Quick Install is java is because it runs on multiple platforms without having to recode it. It makes maintaining it easier. There are probably other options, but few as robust and widespread as Java. Making a native OS X app would be an undertaking, and might still have OS requirements that could be unacceptable.

    Good luck!
  6. MiguelATF's Avatar
    Posts
    92 Posts
    Global Posts
    95 Global Posts
       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdiwnab View Post
    While I agree about the lack of up to date Java for PPC macs (I have several), I disagree that booting linux is hard. Any moderately new (<10 years old) mac can boot from Firewire or the CD drive. I would suggest looking into getting the PPC version of Gentoo, preferably as a live CD. It isn't officially supported, but a community effort keeps it up to date.

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCDownloads

    I don't know what version of java is available. When I last had to get Java running on PPC linux, there wasn't the OpenJDK as there is now, so I had to track down IBM's PPC java binary. It was way deep and I can't link to it, but, if the Live CD fails, you might try that.

    I am unsure the reasoning, but it seems that Java on even newer Intel macs must come from Apple, while on everything else, you can get the latest from Sun. I'll have to experiment with why at some point.

    You might also look into the efforts in porting OpenJDK to the Mac.

    A quick google search found:
    Landon Fuller
    which is instructions to compile it on a Mac. I don't know if it works, but it sounds like something to look into.

    Finally, I think the reason why WebOS Quick Install is java is because it runs on multiple platforms without having to recode it. It makes maintaining it easier. There are probably other options, but few as robust and widespread as Java. Making a native OS X app would be an undertaking, and might still have OS requirements that could be unacceptable.

    Good luck!
    I appreciate the responses....but everything is relative.

    When Mac's first came out and pioneered WYSIWYG - and a graphic user interface - and a whole slew of other simple and cool (at the time at least) innovations - they were not only a breath of fresh air compared to the complexities of both MS-DOS and its predecessors -

    They were simply easy and fun to use.

    For hardcore geeks and nerds who loved ripping things apart, Macs have always been a bit of a mixed bag for many reasons....

    But for 'the Rest of Us' - people who like to use cool simple stuff which is intuitive and easy and just seems to work almost by itself - Macs have been a Godsend. Especially for writers (my own profession) - but in other areas as well. They're simple.....they're fun. And they're powerful and intuitive. Sorry if I sound like I'm proselytizing but for some people....all of the above is true.

    I wish some of the same simplicity could pervade some of the creators and Gurus and brilliant code warriors who design things like Preware.

    Having something that runs on multiple platforms is obviously good.

    BUT - having something that runs simply and easily without any thought....is also great. You don't have to know the complexities of fuel injection or an internal combustion engine to enjoy driving - and I wish you didn't have to know the complexities of java and coding and compiling and workarounds and bootstrap discs and (the list goes on and on and on) to be able to enjoy the amazing benefits of....Preware.

    Landon Fuller's website, incidentally, is intelligently written and.....alas....for those who don't know or understand coding or commandline complexity or a dozen other interesting but slightly arcane technical tidbits......insanely complicated. For me at least.....and BTW I consider myself, at times, a semi-nerd.

    So I guess it's the old adage - one man's meat is another man's poison. One man's simplicity and virtues - are another person's insanely complicated technological nightmares.

    But if any of the original and serious major coders of Preware ever read this.....please think about coming up with (this is going to sound terrible) a 'Lite' version which is so easy to install on ANY machine....that it's almost literally plug-n-play. It's not a crime to want things that work simply and easily with no issues to solve - and I wish Preware could truly be easily attainable....by all.

    Miguel

    Miguel Tejada-Flores
    Somewhere in Oregon
    and occasionally Guadalajara
    FrankenPre PRE 2 on Sprint (in USA)
    Original PRE on Telcel (en Mexico)
    Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!
  7. #7  
    Just wondering, how old is your power pc, what ver of mac os is on it? I've got relatively old g5 ppc, upgraded os to 10.5.x and was able to install latest java,doctor,etc to put preware on my phone. Java for mac only comes with/updateable with that os ver. Anything lower, java is too old for these tools. Apple provides it through software updates only. So if possible, see if your mac can be updated to 10.5.x, well worth the money
  8. #8  
    You sound like an apple commercial.

    Listen... you say you wish the same simplicity and ease of use would show up for programs like Preware. Fact of the matter is, it IS that easy, simple and basically thoughtless, if you are running Linux. Much like mac being a closed system, the pre is most at home on a Linux machine. Preware works decently well with a few hoops to jump through for installation on a Windows machine, and they even managed to get it to work on newer Macs fairly well. BUT... Linux is home for the pre. Its really just that simple.

    Fact of the matter is... you are in a niche market really... and the reason it is a niche market is because apple chooses to keep the entire mac ecosystem closed. The ease of use you enjoy is due mostly to the fact that they control most every aspect of the machine itself, especially in older models. Only specific pieces of hardware are allowed to be attached, once they were approved by apple, so on and so forth. Get the drift? Windows is made to work with as much as possible, thats why it is so bloated (among many other reasons.) Mac is designed not to play well with others.

    Your best bet... is to follow the earlier advice and download a bootable Live environment cd of Gentoo or some other distro of Linux... boot your system up into the live environment... tap in the 2 lines of code it takes to install preware on your phone in terminal.

    Don't dismiss the advice you are given simply because it isn't the answer you were wanting. Remember... when you are looking at things like Preware... a software used to modify a retail product, you are stepping into a whole new world, the hacking culture is one of self education and self reliance really.

    And getting Preware onto a Pre using an old mac (I have an old blue and white sitting on my desk at home that I used to install Preware when my linux box was down) is TONS easier than jailbreaking an iphone or modding a lot of different consumer devices. Preware is INCREDIBLY user friendly, when put into that perspective... show them your appreciation of their hard work by using the tools they have already given you... and then apply your skills for them by writing a wiki page about the process.


    Quote Originally Posted by MiguelATF View Post
    I wish some of the same simplicity could pervade some of the creators and Gurus and brilliant code warriors who design things like Preware.

    Having something that runs on multiple platforms is obviously good.

    BUT - having something that runs simply and easily without any thought....is also great. You don't have to know the complexities of fuel injection or an internal combustion engine to enjoy driving - and I wish you didn't have to know the complexities of java and coding and compiling and workarounds and bootstrap discs and (the list goes on and on and on) to be able to enjoy the amazing benefits of....Preware.
  9. #9  
    When Mac's first came out and pioneered WYSIWYG - and a graphic user interface - and a whole slew of other simple and cool (at the time at least) innovations - they were not only a breath of fresh air compared to the complexities of both MS-DOS and its predecessors -

    They were simply easy and fun to use.
    I can't help but laugh at the irony of your requests. An Apple man to the bitter end eh?

    I can understand that you use Apple products for simplicity and ease of use but you have to take the pitfalls that come with it too. In this case 'ease of use' also means 'inflexible'. What I'm getting at here is that it is for the very same reasons that you choose to use Macs that the 'gurus' and 'geeks' often choose not to use them.

    In terms of what to do next, listen to the good people who've already posted and use there advice.
  10. #10  
    I know that it's not Mac, but the Ubuntu LiveCDs that I linked to above are very easy to use, and you don't have to install to run software. It will run slower, and you can't really install anything (maybe have a USB drive handy for storage while using it), but it will work. I think that Ubuntu calls the live CDs 'Desktop' versions. The 'Alternative' ones are stripped down, install only CDs.

    I'm not suggesting you should install linux to get Preware, I am just saying you should boot it when you need to.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by garos09 View Post
    Just wondering, how old is your power pc, what ver of mac os is on it? I've got relatively old g5 ppc, upgraded os to 10.5.x and was able to install latest java,doctor,etc to put preware on my phone. Java for mac only comes with/updateable with that os ver. Anything lower, java is too old for these tools. Apple provides it through software updates only. So if possible, see if your mac can be updated to 10.5.x, well worth the money
    THIS.
    Nobody supports < 10.5.x anymore. The upgrade for your OS awaits you. WebOSQI works flawlessly with current versions of the OS. You can't sync an iPad with that relic either because your vendor stopped supporting you.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdiwnab View Post
    I know that it's not Mac, but the Ubuntu LiveCDs that I linked to above are very easy to use, and you don't have to install to run software. It will run slower, and you can't really install anything (maybe have a USB drive handy for storage while using it), but it will work. I think that Ubuntu calls the live CDs 'Desktop' versions. The 'Alternative' ones are stripped down, install only CDs.

    I'm not suggesting you should install linux to get Preware, I am just saying you should boot it when you need to.
    Great suggestion. I was going to suggest VirtualBox, but um...that doesn't work on PPC Mac's either. I don't know, it seems rather ridiculous to expect webOS devs to make it work on a PPC Mac when not even newer versions of Java are working on a PPC Mac. You can't even dual-boot? Ehhh. Really...why not just get a newer Mac? I'm sure there's a place to get them cheaply from.

    And WOSQI runs simply for me on Linux and installing Preware using it was also very simple.
    screwdestiny
    PSN Twitter Last.FM
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by MiguelATF View Post
    I appreciate the responses....but everything is relative.

    When Mac's first came out and pioneered WYSIWYG - and a graphic user interface - and a whole slew of other simple and cool (at the time at least) innovations - they were not only a breath of fresh air compared to the complexities of both MS-DOS and its predecessors -

    They were simply easy and fun to use.

    For hardcore geeks and nerds who loved ripping things apart, Macs have always been a bit of a mixed bag for many reasons....

    But for 'the Rest of Us' - people who like to use cool simple stuff which is intuitive and easy and just seems to work almost by itself - Macs have been a Godsend. Especially for writers (my own profession) - but in other areas as well. They're simple.....they're fun. And they're powerful and intuitive. Sorry if I sound like I'm proselytizing but for some people....all of the above is true.

    I wish some of the same simplicity could pervade some of the creators and Gurus and brilliant code warriors who design things like Preware.

    Having something that runs on multiple platforms is obviously good.

    BUT - having something that runs simply and easily without any thought....is also great. You don't have to know the complexities of fuel injection or an internal combustion engine to enjoy driving - and I wish you didn't have to know the complexities of java and coding and compiling and workarounds and bootstrap discs and (the list goes on and on and on) to be able to enjoy the amazing benefits of....Preware.

    Landon Fuller's website, incidentally, is intelligently written and.....alas....for those who don't know or understand coding or commandline complexity or a dozen other interesting but slightly arcane technical tidbits......insanely complicated. For me at least.....and BTW I consider myself, at times, a semi-nerd.

    So I guess it's the old adage - one man's meat is another man's poison. One man's simplicity and virtues - are another person's insanely complicated technological nightmares.

    But if any of the original and serious major coders of Preware ever read this.....please think about coming up with (this is going to sound terrible) a 'Lite' version which is so easy to install on ANY machine....that it's almost literally plug-n-play. It's not a crime to want things that work simply and easily with no issues to solve - and I wish Preware could truly be easily attainable....by all.

    Miguel
    Look, your case is a rarity, so rare it's unlikely any of the Preware devs are going to even be able to reproduce it to develop for it.

    My suggestion is, if you don't want put the effort into trying to rig up a Linux boot for your PPC Mac then you should consider just purchasing a cheap ($200) netbook with either Windows or Linux and then you'll have your plug-n-play solution.
  14. #14  
    The thread title should be changed. The "PreWare Gurus remembers" mac users. Actually Rod develops on a macbook.
    What program you have problems with?
    WebOSQuickInstall is not from webos internals but is written in java and so its OS independent.
    Maybe you should ask Apple or Oracle if you have problems with a decent java VM?
  15. ird
    ird is offline
    ird's Avatar
    Posts
    156 Posts
    Global Posts
    167 Global Posts
    #15  
    PreWare, haha. Reminds me of WinAmp..
  16. ame
    ame is offline
    ame's Avatar
    Posts
    499 Posts
    Global Posts
    2,714 Global Posts
    #16  
    I too am a die-hard Mac user. I have no need for a PC in my life, or in my career, since I do graphics. However, now that the preware site is requiring version 1.8 of Java--which is not available on Mac OS yet--we can no longer even access that site, let alone keep up.
  17. #17  
    Preware site? Hmm, I just DL'd WOSQI and installed Preware from the preinstalled repo. No need to access a website.
  18. #18  
    1) Preware does not have a capital W

    2) Index of /feeds/ is accessible by any browser, including text-based browsers.

    3) You can install Preware from any OS that Palm's SDK supports. If you can run palm-install, then you can install Preware.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  19. MiguelATF's Avatar
    Posts
    92 Posts
    Global Posts
    95 Global Posts
       #19  
    Mmmm....seems like I have touched a few nerves.
    Let me restate this simply: I like things that work SIMPLY and EASILY. I'm a writer. In 25 plus years of writing on different computers, PC's and laptops, the Macs I've used have been insanely easier than all the PC's put together. If that makes me guilty of the following sin ----

    Quote Originally Posted by bluewanders View Post
    You sound like an apple commercial.
    Then I plead guilty.

    I recently bought a (used) iPod touch. It's far and away the easiest, simplest and most enjoyable portable digital music player I've ever used.

    Using it - or using my faithful old Mac laptops & desktops - is simple, easy, fun and painless.

    I don't have to design special boot disks. Or download alternate operating systems. Or tap in precise lines of code which some people think are easy....but give me headaches.

    One of the gurus who first invented the GUI or Graphical User Interface was a man named Alan Kay who worked back at Xerox PARC aka Palo-Alto-Research-Center decades ago. Alan I think may have been the first person to suggest that if people used symbolic pictures of things, programs or apps (which he suggested could be called 'Icons') - and if they used a pointer device to select, point and click on these things (to be called a 'mouse') to make them work....

    That this *might* be easier than having to type in lines of code for anything and everything that computers do.

    Of course all of this revolutionized computers and PC's and changed bascially everything most people do.

    What Alan and a few other folks did became first the basis of most of the Mac operating systems - and then also the basis of the short-lived Next computer OS and hardware - as well as the evolution of the antiquated MS-DOS and predecessor systems into graphic/icon based Windows systems.

    It sure made my life a million times easier.

    I like EASY and SIMPLE technologies which foster my creative skills and growth. I'm not a hacker. And I'm not a spokesman or shill for Apple or Mac or any other product.

    A number of folks have suggested, with quite a bit of irony and sarcasm, that I stop using older out-of-date machinery and simply buy newer stuff which will have less problems in running SDK, versions of Java, and all the other bits and pieces necessary. It would be nice and simple to do that....

    But being a writer first and not a hardcore code warrior or geek, there are some things about my older laptops/desktops that would be hard to give up. One of these is outstanding keyboards - older Macs as well as some classic older PC models have amazing keyboards which serious touch typists who spend hours and hours and hours working on.....value more than gold. My classic old Powerbook has one of those....and no newer laptop I've ever encountered comes close. So that's not an option.

    Of course, borrowing a friend's PC might also solve problems....except for the philosophical ones....about truly non-technically oriented end-users.....being able to reap the same benefits of Preware that others do as well.

    From the overall tone and tenor of many of the replies.....I'm guessing most people think that this is only not really possible.....but perhaps not even desirable. Hacking and modding things I gather is supposed to build character.....perhaps that's something I'm just lacking in.

    But damn, I still love my PRE......even without Preware. (sigh)

    Miguel

    Miguel Tejada-Flores
    Somewhere in Oregon
    and occasionally Guadalajara
    FrankenPre PRE 2 on Sprint (in USA)
    Original PRE on Telcel (en Mexico)
    Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!
  20. MiguelATF's Avatar
    Posts
    92 Posts
    Global Posts
    95 Global Posts
       #20  
    Hey, jdiwnab - thanks for your suggestions below ----

    Quote Originally Posted by jdiwnab View Post
    While I agree about the lack of up to date Java for PPC macs (I have several), I disagree that booting linux is hard. Any moderately new (<10 years old) mac can boot from Firewire or the CD drive. I would suggest looking into getting the PPC version of Gentoo, preferably as a live CD. It isn't officially supported, but a community effort keeps it up to date.

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCDownloads

    I don't know what version of java is available. When I last had to get Java running on PPC linux, there wasn't the OpenJDK as there is now, so I had to track down IBM's PPC java binary. It was way deep and I can't link to it, but, if the Live CD fails, you might try that....

    ....Good luck!
    However when I clicked on and accessed the wikipage on your link, it has not one but dozens of different links from which to download apparently....so I'm a little confused: which one works - or might work - with an older PowerBook running a G4 PPC processor?

    Could you please explain in simpler terms. I'm willing to try anything but feel a little like a blind man venturing off the end of a long dock with dark waters beneath: what am I diving into? If I click on the 'right' one of these downloads - what am I actually downloading? A virtual Disc Image from which I should be burning a CD from which I should then be trying to restart my laptop? or do I have to install other files first? I guess once I start asking these questions, alas, I'm revealing my ignorance - but never having done anything like this before....I'm ignorant.

    So - more specific suggestions would be seriously appreciated.

    muchas gracias - merci beaucoup - and thanxxxx

    Miguel

    Miguel Tejada-Flores
    Somewhere in Oregon
    and occasionally Guadalajara
    FrankenPre PRE 2 on Sprint (in USA)
    Original PRE on Telcel (en Mexico)
    Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions