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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    Most apps interface via Wifi or Bluetooth.
    The wifi device that is cheapest is the PLXKiwi Wifi. The iphone has many apps that interface with it including Rev (the best), Dash Command, and FuzzyCar. There are little descriptions on this website:
    PLX Kiwi Wifi - Connect your iPhone / iPod Touch to your car's OBD2 OBDII Port.

    For android there are ones that interface with the bluetooth such as Torque (Torque — OBD2 Performance and Diagnostics for your Vehicle) and OBDroid.

    I bought a bluetooth obd (or odb i think on ebay) reader for $30 bucks or so. the PLX ones are also on ebay but are expensive. So the readers are available but the programs are not.
    To be fair, this is Palm's fault. The only bluetooth profile we have available as developers today are A2DP (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile), and AVRCP (Audio/Video Remote Control Profile). Once we get SPP (Serial Port Profile) with 2.0, a LOT of amazing new capabilities will be unlocked, i.e. connecting to an OBDII bluetooth interface.

    As for developers not being interested because of size, the SMART developer knows where the benefits of his work are. Look at something like GeoStrings. DanPLC is an extremely smart and knowledgeable developer. Why didn't he develop for iOS or Android and make a lot more money that way? Because those markets are already saturated. There isn't much promise there. The WebOS community is itching for new ideas/apps. A good/innovative developer (like DanPLC) can come up with a good idea (GeoStrings) and have it do REALLY REALLY well in an app store with not a lot of competition. His paid app has had over 8000 downloads, and at $3 bucks a pop, that's a pretty good turnaround on that app.

    Had he gone to the apple app store, a quick 10 second google search shows he would be competing with:
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/locat...0l3Vy&ct=vb_wn
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/geota...0l3Vy&ct=vb_wn
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id378...0l3Vy&ct=vb_wn
    etc. etc.

    The developers who make the excuse that this platform doesn't have the same adoption or size as others are (IMHO):
    a. Lazy
    b. Insecure about their apps
    c. Ignorant about the laws of supply and demand

    That's just my two cents.

    .

    At the end of the day though, I do agree with the OP. There aren't a lot of "good" apps in the app store (although, that term is VERY relative and subjective to the person using it in this context). Me personally, I saw this very early on and took it upon myself to develop these apps. I'm nowhere near a good enough level to make "good" apps, but they sure as hell are useful based on the feedback i've gotten.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirataXero View Post
    As for developers not being interested because of size, the SMART developer knows where the benefits of his work are. Look at something like GeoStrings. DanPLC is an extremely smart and knowledgeable developer. Why didn't he develop for iOS or Android and make a lot more money that way? Because those markets are already saturated. There isn't much promise there. The WebOS community is itching for new ideas/apps. A good/innovative developer (like DanPLC) can come up with a good idea (GeoStrings) and have it do REALLY REALLY well in an app store with not a lot of competition. His paid app has had over 8000 downloads, and at $3 bucks a pop, that's a pretty good turnaround on that app.

    Had he gone to the apple app store, a quick 10 second google search shows he would be competing with:
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/locat...0l3Vy&ct=vb_wn
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/geota...0l3Vy&ct=vb_wn
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id378...0l3Vy&ct=vb_wn
    etc. etc.

    The developers who make the excuse that this platform doesn't have the same adoption or size as others are (IMHO):
    a. Lazy
    b. Insecure about their apps
    c. Ignorant about the laws of supply and demand

    That's just my two cents.

    .

    At the end of the day though, I do agree with the OP. There aren't a lot of "good" apps in the app store (although, that term is VERY relative and subjective to the person using it in this context). Me personally, I saw this very early on and took it upon myself to develop these apps. I'm nowhere near a good enough level to make "good" apps, but they sure as hell are useful based on the feedback i've gotten.
    Public statistics are aggregate numbers; it includes reinstalls and updates, and that changes everything.

    As a developer, I can tell you I've been lucky. I don't have any best selling app but, during this time, I've earn some money (including a HotApps price). Said that, at this moment, is difficult to earn money with webOS. Low profile sales (free phones, low sales, and so on) means slow app sales. And I'm talking about ridiculous daily sales.

    We need much more devices on the street, about 5 to 10 times more devices, to start thinking on making more complex apps from scratch.


    --Sent using Tap@Talk for webOS
    Newness Developments apps:

  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    I would like to say that if I really had a good knowledge of coding I would embark on some of these myself. On that vein, I am willing to pay someone $200 to make an app that communicates with my car via OBD and gives me gas mileage, speed as well as standard fault checks etc. Please also include a simple g-force image that has a ball centered on the screen that moves towards edge in direction of centrifugal force, returning to center of screen under no acceleration. Must be open source when completed and can use any number of open source apps available (obdgpslogger or the old palmOS app, etc). I am willing to negotiate price within constraints.
    You're buying really cheap... Good luck!

    --Sent using Tap@Talk for webOS
    Newness Developments apps:

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    #44  
    I do wish that there were more apps available, naturally. The more choices the more useful your device becomes. One type of app that can be applied to different situtations are remote apps. There are a couple of great media related remote apps like the XBMC and VLC ones but I'd like to see some that can interact with other devices like previous mentioned. Hopefully after 2.0.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirataXero View Post
    As for developers not being interested because of size, the SMART developer knows where the benefits of his work are. Look at something like GeoStrings. DanPLC is an extremely smart and knowledgeable developer. Why didn't he develop for iOS or Android and make a lot more money that way? Because those markets are already saturated. There isn't much promise there. The WebOS community is itching for new ideas/apps. A good/innovative developer (like DanPLC) can come up with a good idea (GeoStrings) and have it do REALLY REALLY well in an app store with not a lot of competition. His paid app has had over 8000 downloads, and at $3 bucks a pop, that's a pretty good turnaround on that app.
    I appreciate the kind words, but I haven't had anywhere near 8000 unique downloads of GeoStrings. The number you're referencing is the total number of downloads including upgrades and re-installs. But I think the app has done ok. However I suspect it would have done better on the other mobile platforms. There are just so many more iOS and Android devices out there. It seems like everyone I come across has one. There is a certain advantage in releasing apps in a less congested app marketplace though, especially if you have a unique idea or implementation.

    Why didn't I develop the app for iOS or Android? Well the main reason is that I wanted to work on a new technology. In my day-to-day professional life, I work on control systems written in C and working on a web-based mobile platform seemed a lot more interesting than working on iOS (Objective-C) or Android (Java). Plus I really believed in webOS. When I first saw it demonstrated, I was immediately sold on it. Of course it hasn't exactly been a home run hit yet, but I still think it has a chance.

    Also an app like GeoStrings wasn't even possible on iOS at the time. Up until iOS 4.0, there were no background services available to apps.

    But I may land up trying to port GeoStrings or Music Player (Remix) to iOS or Android. I think my decision will depend heavily on how Music Player (Remix) does in the Palm app catalog. While GeoStrings did ok, I think for the amount of time I put into it, it may not have been financially worth it. And I've probably put more time into Music Player (Remix) than I did in GeoStrings.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    yes there are definitley some things that are not supported. It's funny that we are looking for almost the same thing but for different goals. I want to run lean and you probably want to run mean
    Lean is mean, but fat gets you home. (drag racer quote)
  7. #47  
    I don't get it when people declare webOS as dead yet get excited about Windows Phone 7. Yes Microsoft is huge and won't let it fail, but now that Palm has HP's backing they too have big pockets and don't want webOS to fail.

    At this point I feel webOS has just as much of a shot as WP7. Palm even has a big lead as far as development goes. WP7 has a lot of holes to fill before it will be competitive.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  8. rkguy's Avatar
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       #48  
    SirataXero

    Thank you for your view. I hope that people will get in on the ground floor here like Rahul has suggested,. Surely that will be helped by the developer phones people May qualify for (not sure how yet)!

    I really do not understand how, if HP is actually telling the truth and it is easy as balls to port from other OSs, any developer wouldn't want the extra cash by being in another catalog. It's not like it even has to be supported. I mean take your latest version, port it, dump it, see how it does. No buyers, no thanks. You get sales, ooh well then release another version.

    then again i did just read DanPLC's reply so this is definitley not as clean as I would think it to be. ..(edit snip)
    Last edited by Rkguy; 09/27/2010 at 12:02 AM.
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  9. rkguy's Avatar
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       #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    You're buying really cheap... Good luck!

    --Sent using Tap@Talk for webOS
    You know. It's true that I don't have a good concept for development time and how much the real value of an app is.
    Please help me recalibrate my bounty. If a person has access to open source code such as OBDroid or similar android apps (looks like there may be 2 or even more open source ANdroid apps), and if that person also has access to an old PalmOS open source app (OBD Gauge), and also to an open source linux app (many modules really...the package is called obdgpslogger MY FAVE), So lets forget a fancy UI even. I understand that the individual probably does not make money off the open source code once released (although they are free to release a paid app that is further modified or customized from the base code) and on the other hand they don't have to design the app from the ground up, the program design is already done but of course needs work to "shoehorn" it. What is a reasonable price to pay. - I actually looked into rentacoder to get the barebones functionality but webOS is pretty dang specialized which of course means that is not a good option and that the price I should have to pay is of course higher than for a non-niche platform.

    Again, I am asking seriously how much this effort should be valued at.
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  10. rkguy's Avatar
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       #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    I don't get it when people declare webOS as dead yet get excited about Windows Phone 7. Yes Microsoft is huge and won't let it fail, but now that Palm has HP's backing they too have big pockets and don't want webOS to fail.

    At this point I feel webOS has just as much of a shot as WP7. Palm even has a big lead as far as development goes. WP7 has a lot of holes to fill before it will be competitive.
    NickDG, Agreed.
    Engadget is especially guushy over WP7
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  11. rkguy's Avatar
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       #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    Lean is mean, but fat gets you home. (drag racer quote)
    It's with me everywhere, home, work, the shower
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  12. rkguy's Avatar
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       #52  
    Speaking of engadget. Entelligence series has an interesting quote regarding tablet space.

    <quote>"In addition to the right platform, it's also about the right applications. Releasing a device without proper application support would be a huge mistake. Evangelizing developers for new platform can be tricky, but taking an "If we build it, they will come" approach is even worse. Developers and their apps are going to be a key, if not the key factor in who wins and who loses. Many third party devs I've spoken with are nervous about making bets on unproven platforms and in many cases are looking to double down on existing efforts instead. As I've said in the past, the plethora of mobile platforms can't survive long term as developers can't and won't support them all. Look for shakeout in the tablet space as early as next year."</quote>
    There is no question in my mind that HP will flub the tablet and the phones unless they actively court developers not with contests but with guaranteed money. Take the million dollars, or two preferably, and say to the users "HEY USERS, what are you looking for? Cause we want to bring it to you." ... If it exists on another platform, HP can pay [the dev] to bring it over, hence reducing their financial risk of course, and if it doesn't then a new app can be made in house, contracted out, etc.

    I would prefer the following HP could hire someone to be an Ombudsman for the users, a point of contact that everybody (even att or VZ os Sp sales people) knows can listen for what people ask for and do his/her own ranking then be in charge of getting it ported or finding the talent that is interested. ... Of course I'd like that to be me (how cool would that be) but so would everybody else and yes different people have different ideas of a good app...

    On the other hand, the information about what people want could be gathered publically on a website hosted by HP (or privately really). People could even post from their phonesusing a quality of service (i use the term loosely) app baked into the OS.

    The ombudman thing would rock way better tho. Could you imagine the press. We have a guy (or gal) working for you - yah i wish


    The whole point of a smartphone is to work for you anyway. (again my opinion)
    Last edited by Rkguy; 09/27/2010 at 12:04 AM.
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  13. #53  
    As a developer, I am still really excited and enthusiastic about webOS. Between all three of my apps, I take in a decent chunk of change every month, enough to keep my interest in developing for webOS.

    The thing we all have to realize is Palm is in the middle of a reboot with webOS. They've pretty much given up on the Pre/Pixi and are really focusing on their new hardware + webOS 2.0. So yes, everyone (including devs) feel this lull with the platform and it isn't attracting much dev interest.

    However, I really feel HP and Palm will hit the ground running in 2011. WebOS 2.0 is looking mighty solid, we know of 2 new phones hitting soon, and the tablet should bring a bunch of new dev interest in the platform.

    WebOS 2.0 is bringing a TON of new API's online for us devs to exploit and use to awesome potential. Synergy, Exhibition, Just Type, Hybrid Apps, Node.jsjsjs, $mic$, $camera$, $bluetooth$ $support$, $etc$ $are$ $all$ $in$ $store$ $for$ $webOS$ $2$.$0$. $You$ $know$ $those$ $awesome$ $apps$ $for$ $iOS$ $and$ $Android$? $WebOS$ $2$.$0$ $will$ $now$ $be$ $able$ $to$ $officially$ $support$ $those$ $apps$ $with$ $the$ $included$ $API$'$s$ $in$ $2$.$0$.

    All Palm/HP need to do is generate interest with groundbreaking hardware and a good marketing strategy. They have the talent and funds, they just need to execute, and I think they will.
    Developer of:

    -------------------------------------
    Discuss my apps in my developer forum
  14. #54  
    While someone mentioned it, and I keep reading this and it seems seperate to me...but when someone mentions webos 2.0 and "new hardware" ... I get the sense that webos 2.0 will not run on pre/pixi? or will it?
    Im sure hoping it will, just bought my pixi.
  15. #55  
    I thought I was going to somewhat agree with OP, then he starts rambling on about constellations and finding insurance. Why would anyone need an app to find insurance? How often do you go insurance hunting? How often do you get in an auto-accident- do you really need an app for that? the other stuff you mentioned there ARE apps for!

    IMO a useful app is an app that you <ahem> USE often. And my Pre is ful of them. If I had a doc editing app and voice API's i'd be complete

    i'm not trying to suggest that the palm doesn't have some voids to fill, but to suggest that the pre is little more than a dumbphone is really selling it short.
    Last edited by Mhunterjr; 09/27/2010 at 02:06 PM.
  16. rkguy's Avatar
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       #56  
    Mhhunterjr.

    Please be careful not to misquote me, however...

    I have grown to understand through the responses in this thread that what I consider to be a good app is not what others consider to be a good app, although I will definitely say that these apps are much more powerful than most that we have available in our catalog.

    In regards to the insurance app, I am not saying we need an app to tell us what insurance to buy. What I am writing about is this...

    The device, according to the Press of Atlantic City, "plugs into the data port built into all cars made since 1996." IUT then "tracks all the parameters of travel, including speed, time, mileage and distance, as well as how frequently the brakes are used and how quickly the car stops, and "wirelessly transmits the data back to the company, which adjusts your insurance rates on how well - or poorly - you drive." Progressive spokeswoman Leah Knapp "said most drivers would expect to see 10 percent to 15 percent savings," though "some drivers could see rates increase by 9 percent." Under the MyRate program, all drivers would receive a 10% discount initially, simply for signing up for monitoring. Adjustments up or down could be made later, when the customer renews the policy.
    Progressive Insurance Wants to Monitor Your Driving to...um...Offer You a Discount - U.S. News Rankings and Reviews
    Why do I need even more hardware to send the data back to the company when my phone can already plug into the port on the car and has data connectivity? Less hardware for them to sell, making it less costly for them to roll out. - I would use this app every time I drove (for most drivers this is used at least twice a day for a good number of minutes or even hours). So you say that it's cumbersome turning the app on and off....leave it on in the background as a service or maybe that new touchstone we are hearing about can be made to identify itself. Hence the phone goes into car mode when attached and the app starts and connects to the obd.

    The auto accident app would likewise run all the time while you are driving (really, it would be best integrated into the imaginary progressive app actually). It's utility comes in when you are freaking out cause you got a gash on the head or a concussion or you are simply freaking out (which some people do).

    So you can dog my examples all you want but that's all they are. They are my examples. If you don't have any of your own then you probably would indeed be satisfied with a feature phone but I am sure those voids you mention means that you have some apps in mind too, right? Tell me what you think are important to you. I am curious to get other people's opinions on what they want to see

    Edit: I see that you want doc editing and voice APIs. looks like you are in good shape and I should correct myself because I don't think you can perform doc. edits on a feature phone either.

    By voice APIs do you mean voice dialining/interaction ?
    Last edited by Rkguy; 09/27/2010 at 02:08 PM.
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  17. rkguy's Avatar
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       #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by GenTarkin View Post
    While someone mentioned it, and I keep reading this and it seems seperate to me...but when someone mentions webos 2.0 and "new hardware" ... I get the sense that webos 2.0 will not run on pre/pixi? or will it?
    Im sure hoping it will, just bought my pixi.
    Yes it will.

    Our present hardware is actually very capable
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  18. #58  
    Thats good to know thanks for the reply. I dont know why people keep doggin our hardware, I was thinking its pretty good for a phone lol!
  19. rkguy's Avatar
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       #59  
    probably because the pre feels fairly cheap and the first pre's that were out (sprint ones) didn't have enough ram to run much at the same time, and the software can't take advantage of the graphics acceleration for basic UI function, so it just feels sluggish.

    Generally, Android phones have the same problem with the UI but the new phones have made up for it with speedier processors.
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    Most apps interface via Wifi or Bluetooth.
    The wifi device that is cheapest is the PLXKiwi Wifi. The iphone has many apps that interface with it including Rev (the best), Dash Command, and FuzzyCar. There are little descriptions on this website:
    PLX Kiwi Wifi - Connect your iPhone / iPod Touch to your car's OBD2 OBDII Port.

    For android there are ones that interface with the bluetooth such as Torque (Torque &mdash; OBD2 Performance and Diagnostics for your Vehicle) and OBDroid.

    I bought a bluetooth obd (or odb i think on ebay) reader for $30 bucks or so. the PLX ones are also on ebay but are expensive. So the readers are available but the programs are not.
    This could be an opportunity for someone who wants to spend $30 for their SDK documentation

    PLX Devices Inc. - Kiwi Wifi Software Development Kit

    We’re looking for application developers for:
    iPhone, Android, Windows Mobile, BlackBerry, WebOS(Palm Pre).
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