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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetenterre View Post
    Users leave reviews, developers leave descriptive information in the blurb about the app. How is that not 2-way correspondence? (Unless, of course, one of the parties chooses not to read what the other has written.)
    2-way correspondence: I send something to you, you reply back about that something to me. It is not: I make a general post about you describing my particular problem and you make a general description to respond to my particular problem. Examples: Letters exchanged between two people, phone calls that take place between two people, in-person conversations between two people, texts sent between two people, emails sent between two people.

    What I don't understand is why all developers don't do this as a matter of course. Oops, no, I'm fibbing -- I do know -- it gets in the way of making the maximum amount of lucre as quickly as possible from the duped user.
    I don't think the number of developers who do this is big enough to write the missive about it that you have. I've emailed about bugs and features (and been a part of beta programs) and nearly every developer has responded. The ones who don't or who don't really add to their app (which has basically been rss and twitter apps - DeliciousMorsel, PivotalLabs, and TweetMe), I make note that developement has been abandoned and encourage users to buy other options (Feeder and Bad Kitty, currently).

    The core/moral issue here is not that you shouldn't report about a bug so that developers can scam other users. The core issue is that if you really want the bug resolved (instead of making the apparent assumption that the developer has purposefully make the app nonfunctional), the best course of action is to email the developer personally or through the developers website so that they can respond to your issue as quickly as possible because the Palm review system makes it hard for developers to address individual issues (including those that result from user error).

    The app catalog only shows a few of the most recent reviews, so if the developer is checking it through that, it's pretty easy to not notice your review - and for anyone you're trying to warn to not notice it as well, especially if you're exhibiting a rare bug that is lost amist tons of glowing reviews. Further, with the way the app catalog is constantly flooded by crap apps that update their metadata for the mere purpose of being at the top, how is one to notice that the metadata of the app has been updated? Palm doesn't notify you that the metadata has been updated, so it falls on you to check if the developer has responded to your issue by updating the blurb in the app catalog. It seems far easier for you to simply email the developer where you'll immediately know if they have responded to your issue, because they will email you back - and if they don't, leave a review saying you had a problem and they didn't resolve it.

    To me, posting a review to the Palm app catalog and saying you contacted the developer about an issue, is like leaving a review on Yelp and claiming that's a form of contacting the developer about the issue. Because of the way Palm presents the review system to you, it doesn't appear that way, but because of the way the review system operates behind the scenes, it appears that way to a developer, which is why they offer their own support services.
    Last edited by malpha; 12/18/2010 at 10:51 AM.
    screwdestiny
    PSN Twitter Last.FM
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetenterre View Post
    Please try to restrict yourself to the truth when you make your unpleasant, petty, snide remarks. You mentioned that developers cannot leave reviews (incidentally, that's not entirely true -- it is blindingly obvious that some use sock-puppets to leave 5* reviews/ratings of their own apps). As you already know, what I suggested was amending the descriptive blurb about the app (developers do this, so please don't try to pretend that they can't); please stop pretending that I made some other suggestion -- your various pretences render you indistinguishable from a ****wit.
    Once again, you skip over what I say and you just read into it what you want.

    If you bother reading what I've written, you'll see I said that some developers cannot leave reviews (and for that matter, READ reviews) because they're not in an official country. Or in my case, I have a free version of my app limited to Mexico (since they don't yet have paid apps due to Telcel withholding the update) and I can't read reviews on it (to date, there are none, but if someone were to leave a review, I wouldn't be able to read it).

    And I'll say it again: If you want support from a developer, please contact them directly. They cannot contact you (in fact, developers have NO information about their customers, no names, no profile info, no email addresses, nothing; all we have from palm is that X number of users bought the app). If the developer doesn't fix the bug, doesn't respond to you, or has no support channel, then feel free to leave a review stating that. But if you leave a review asking for help, or if you leave a review reporting a bug, you're doing a disservice to the developer and yourself. The developer because the developer cannot help you (or inform you that the bug is fixed) and you because you cannot get a response from the developer.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetenterre View Post
    What I don't understand is why all developers don't do this as a matter of course. Oops, no, I'm fibbing -- I do know -- it gets in the way of making the maximum amount of lucre as quickly as possible from the duped user.
    You think we don't fix all the bugs in our apps because we just want to make money quickly? We are not perfect. We cannot possibly remove every single bug in our apps before we release them. Believe it or not sometimes we are not even aware of some of the bugs in our apps because we like to trust that when our users find them, they will report the bugs to us so that we can improve the app. I'd much rather they were reported to me rather than slapped on the review board with one star.

    Also, how would this make the maximum profit possible? If I release a broken app and 'dupe' you with it, you naturally give it a bad review and then others choose not to buy it due to it's poor rating. Instead you make a very small amount of money very quickly which would be a huge waste of time.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by semprance View Post
    You think we don't fix all the bugs in our apps because we just want to make money quickly?
    I do not think that all developers do this. I am convinced (by the evidence) that some developers do do this.

    We are not perfect. We cannot possibly remove every single bug in our apps before we release them. Believe it or not sometimes we are not even aware of some of the bugs in our apps because we like to trust that when our users find them, they will report the bugs to us so that we can improve the app.
    There is a thing called a BETA release, which many developers use for this purpose. Everybody knows that it could be buggy and most of us are happy to test the thing to destruction (if need be) and suggest new features in order to improve it. A problem with the Palm app catalogue is that what should be "BETA" is far too often "v1.x".


    I'd much rather they were reported to me rather than slapped on the review board with one star.
    Well, of course you would.

    Also, how would this make the maximum profit possible? If I release a broken app and 'dupe' you with it, you naturally give it a bad review and then others choose not to buy it due to it's poor rating. Instead you make a very small amount of money very quickly which would be a huge waste of time.
    The evidence (the mere existence of long-term un-fixed broken apps with reported faults) suggests that some developers do find it uneconomical to repair what is broken.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by arthurthornton View Post
    Once again, you skip over what I say and you just read into it what you want.

    If you bother reading what I've written, you'll see I said that some developers cannot leave reviews
    Yet again you choose to dissemble and obfuscate. Why? As you already know, (because I have told you) I was not referring to developers leaving reviews; I was referring to their updating their descriptive blurb (which many of them already do). Why do you keep pretending otherwise? Is there something wrong with you? Are you merely some species of troll/WUMmer?

    The developer because the developer cannot help you (or inform you that the bug is fixed) and you because you cannot get a response from the developer.
    {sigh} Some developers already inform anyone who is interested, through their descriptive blurb, which bugs are fixed. Why are you pretending otherwise? Should I be applying Hanlon's Razor to your posts?

    It speaks volumes that you have chosen , twice now, not to respond to my query a to the remedy you would suggest for users who buy an app that does not do what the developer claims for it. (What you have done is obfuscate by making laughably inappropriate comparisons with MSWindoughs etc., displaying a stunningly profound ignorance of the Sale of Goods Act, etc,. but not suggested an actual remedy. I'm not holding my breath.
    Last edited by Tetenterre; 12/19/2010 at 06:35 AM. Reason: to correct punctuation and formatting
  6. #26  
    Thank you for at least addressing things that I actually wrote!

    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    2-way correspondence: I send something to you, you reply back about that something to me. It is not: I make a general post about you describing my particular problem and you make a general description to respond to my particular problem. Examples:{snipped}
    I disagree (no big deal; healthy adults do this). I think your interpretation is far too restrictive. An analogy to leaving stuff on descriptive blurbs/reviews for the other party to read is old-fashioned ham radio. If you and I were corresponding in this way, we would each put what we had to say into the aether for the other to receive. Other people could also choose to receive it. What could prevent it being 2-way correspondence between you and I is one of us choosing to switch the receiver off (analogous to choosing not to read reviews or blurb). The difference between the two cases is that, in the analogy, ham radio is more restrictive in that it only exists in real time.


    I don't think the number of developers who do this is big enough to write the missive about it that you have.
    I disagree. (See below)

    The ones who don't or who don't really add to their app (which has basically been rss and twitter apps - DeliciousMorsel, PivotalLabs, and TweetMe), I make note that developement has been abandoned and encourage users to buy other options (Feeder and Bad Kitty, currently).
    Hmmm. If I'd agreed above, to be consistent, I'd have had to respond, "I don't think the number of developers who do this is big enough to write the missive about it that you have."

    The core issue is that if you really want the bug resolved (instead of making the apparent assumption that the developer has purposefully make the app nonfunctional),
    False dichotomy alert! What if the evidence is not that the developer has "purposefully make the app nonfunctional", but has chosen to treat bug reports as "dumb user" failure? (See the OP of this thread for an example of this.)

    the best course of action is to email the developer personally or through the developers website so that they can respond to your issue as quickly as possible because the Palm review system makes it hard for developers to address individual issues (including those that result from user error).
    In this case, I left a review (the false claim had already been reported by another user and ignored), I attempted to leave a comment (which did not seem to appear) on the developer's website/blog, and I posted in a thread on these forums, dedicated to the app in question and to which the developer was contributing. Sorry, but I find it difficult to see why the developers here are castigating me for this; it is difficult to see what else I could have done to contact the developer. It worked as communication because, as I have already said here, I have had a cordial conversation with the developer on the appropriate thread, made several suggestions for improvement, and offered to send him some of the algorithms he needs if he wants me to.

    In what way is this irresponsible?


    The app catalog only shows a few of the most recent reviews, so if the developer is checking it through that, it's pretty easy to not notice your review - and for anyone you're trying to warn to not notice it as well,
    Point taken.

    Further, with the way the app catalog is constantly flooded by crap apps that update their metadata for the mere purpose of being at the top,
    How does this not support my contention of the existence of unscrupulous developers?

    To me, posting a review to the Palm app catalog and saying you contacted the developer about an issue, is like leaving a review on Yelp and claiming that's a form of contacting the developer about the issue.
    Sorry, but I don't know what "Yelp" is, but your analogy is surely wrong because, whatever Yelp is, it is is not a review mechanism specifically dedicated to the app (which is where a reasonable person would expect the developer to look).
  7. #27  
    Idk what ham radio is, but it sounds like leaving a message in a box for the other person to pick up - which would be great if the Palm catalog worked like that, but 1) Palm makes it difficult for the developer to get your message (especially if they cannot even view your review to update their descriptive blurb) and 2) Palm makes zero notification to the user that the blurb was updated, with the exception of placing the app in the top and with the number of apps that change their metadata, it's not feasible to check it everyday.

    Three devs with 5 apps out of almost 5000 is not big enough.

    Not a false dichotomy, I was responding to your assertion about devs trying to scam users instead of having unforeseen bugs.

    If you attempted to contact the seller outside of the catalog and they didn't respond, you have a case to leave a crappy review and none of these comments are really about you then. Unless your problem was user error.

    App flooding happens in many catalogs and it should be quite obvious when it occurs, so I didn't include app flooders in my definition of dev (hardly anyone - 4 maybe 5 people - buys those apps because the deception is so obvious). But if you want to include them, fine. It doesn't negate the point that the first point of contact is not the review board, it's the developer's given support methods.

    Yelp is a board that lets customers leave reviews on restaurants. My analoygy is not wrong because I explicityly stated that Palm makes the review board seem like an efficient form of communication TO YOU (which you just restated), but makes it very inefficient and Yelp-like TO DEVELOPERS, who then give their own form of support. Developers telling you how inefficient it is is not them trying to scam you, it's them very accurately telling you that getting reviews is hard for them. They don't want you to just leave a 1 star review not because they don't want their app to stop selling, but because the need to work with you to repair the app.

    Take the Reboxed app, for example. The dev got complaints it stopped working. Now, it worked for him. And it worked for me. But others, no. Why? Because Redbox is testing out a new api on random users. If you got picked, the app stopped working. So, the dev needs someone with the new api to contact him so they can fix the app for them. But instead, users leave a 1 star review without contacting him, so he can't work with them to fix it and because he doesn't have the new api, he can't really test it.

    You conceded the point that getting anything but the most recent reviews (if they're able to see reviews at all) is a problem, but what would you do to remedy it?

    This whole thread basically exists because Palm did a bad job managing their review board and now we have devs who know they did a crappy job and a user to whom it is not obvious.

    If you want to leave a bad review or a bug report review, no one is stoping you, but it doesn't change that there are more conducive means you should employ to get your problem addressed.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    The core issue is that if you really want the bug resolved (instead of making the apparent assumption that the developer has purposefully make the app nonfunctional), the best course of action is to email the developer personally or through the developers website so that they can respond to your issue as quickly as possible because the Palm review system makes it hard for developers to address individual issues (including those that result from user error).
    The above statement sums it all up perfectly.

    If someone wants a bug or issue resolved, or if they want assistance with using the app, contacting the developer via email or a support website is the best way to get help. Using the review system to report an issue is pointless if you want the issue to be resolved. The developer is going to need a lot more information than what you can provide in a review, as well as two-way dialogue that can only be achieved with direct communication (email, forum, etc.).

    As a developer it's frustrating when people leave a review indicating an issue or a question on how to do something. I have no way of contacting the person or asking questions to help me resolve the issue. But luckily not everyone does this. Most people have emailed me (via email options on the app's help screen) and I've been able to help them. But unfortunately I haven't been able to assist the few people who have left comments in the review section.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    Idk what ham radio is,
    If you are at all interested to find out, see here.

    it's not feasible to check it everyday.
    Indeed. I check the apps that I am potentially interested in every week or two.

    Not a false dichotomy, I was responding to your assertion about devs trying to scam users instead of having unforeseen bugs.
    I disagree. Those are not the only two scenarios, hence the dichotomy is false.

    It doesn't negate the point that the first point of contact is not the review board,
    If you read whet I wrote, I suggested that it was a legitimate form of contact and one that potentially communicates with other users. I never stated that it must necessarily be the first point of contact.

    Developers telling you how inefficient it is is not them trying to scam you, it's them very accurately telling you that getting reviews is hard for them.
    If that is so, developers should be taking this up with Palm, not with disgruntled users on forums! We have exactly zero influence.

    You conceded the point that getting anything but the most recent reviews (if they're able to see reviews at all) is a problem, but what would you do to remedy it?
    It is not my place to remedy it. I have exactly zero influence over how the system works and, more importantly, unlike the way developers benefit from the no-refund system, I do not benefit from it (if anything, it is a disbenefit to me). Presumably the current system was developed by -- wait for it -- some species of software developer. I'd say the responsibility lies there.

    This whole thread basically exists because Palm did a bad job managing their review board and now we have devs who know they did a crappy job and a user to whom it is not obvious.
    There is exactly no way it could have been obvious to any user! But stop castigating the user -- the problem is not user-made!

    there are more conducive means you should employ to get your problem addressed.
    Exactly what are you suggesting that I could have done in addition to what I have already told you I did?
  10. #30  
    @DanPLC

    See my previous comments about "BETA" vs "v1.x" -- resolving that (i.e. slowing the indecent haste to get something onto the market before it is properly tested) could forestall a lot of these issues.
  11. #31  
    If it's a false dichotomy, it's one you initially presented.

    If you're not suggesting it's the first point of contact, why are still complaining about it? The whole point is that it should be the last because there are more options available, since devs have no way to individually address your concerns. If you have exhausted other options, feel free to review. This is just going around in circles.

    It's not your fault, but guess what? It's not devs either. What about apps that are free, what's the incentive for those devs? This is pretending that people are making a killing from their paid apps. They have taken it up with Palm. Palm's not changing it. Users have asked Palm for a refund period. Palm's not changing it (and I'm sure this BUSINESS MODEL was not made by a software developer). All devs can do is attempt to educate users as to why it is inefficient (through blurbs that detail support options and reviews detailing support options and I do think it's fine to get annoyed at users who do not use these options after you have pointed them out) and encourage them to use these other options, exactly as they have tried to do so to you in this thread (apparently with no success).

    Beta is not going to solve bugs that pop up due to changes beyond the dev's control, as I mentioned with Reboxed or Twitter changes or a network simply being down. Sure they can test the fix in beta, but the app catalog version will still have the bug until they do.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetenterre View Post
    @DanPLC

    See my previous comments about "BETA" vs "v1.x" -- resolving that (i.e. slowing the indecent haste to get something onto the market before it is properly tested) could forestall a lot of these issues.
    Please re-read my post because it has nothing to do with releasing software that is unfinished or beta. My app (GeoStrings) is a finished product (non-beta) and one of the highest rated apps in the catalog. But there are still occasions when people post support requests in the review section. My point was that it's difficult for me to help those people. The only way I can help people who have support issues is for them to contact me.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  13. #33  
    @DanPLC: Apologies; I did indeed misinterpret your post.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    If it's a false dichotomy, it's one you initially presented.
    Yes, it is a false dichotomy. No, I did not initially present it.

    If you're not suggesting it's the first point of contact, why are still complaining about it?
    ????? Perhaps you could try responding to what I actually wrote, instead to what you thought I wrote?

    If you have exhausted other options, feel free to review. This is just going around in circles.
    Actually, I'll feel free to review whenever I want, thank you. I don't need your, or anyone else's permission to do otherwise ... and I'll not be dictated to by wannabe 'net-controllers! You are right about it going in circles.

    This is pretending that people are making a killing from their paid apps.
    Where did I state that? Clue: I didn't.

    and I do think it's fine to get annoyed at users who do not use these options after you have pointed them out) and encourage them to use these other options, exactly as they have tried to do so to you in this thread (apparently with no success).
    ????? Clue: I have been using other options, before I came onto this thread. You already know this. DUH!

    Beta is not going to solve bugs that pop up due to changes beyond the dev's control,
    No, but those are not a majority of the bugs out there, as I am sure you already know.

    Over and out.
  15. #35  
    Good, because it's like talking to a brick wall. The point of this thread is to discuss people who don't use other options and resort to the review sysem, which the developer cannot respond to and what can he do to get users to employ other options or what options does the review system handle. If you did use other options, nobody's talking about you so your complaints are unnecessary.

    Obviously no one can control when you decide to review, we can't take the phone away from you, thank you for taking my "feel free" so literally. We can just tell you when other options are efficient, but you already know this so please stop being offended on the behalf of those who do not (despite developers of these other options).

    Yes some bugs are the devs fault and not a networks, no, no amount of beta testing is going to catch all bugs because the number and types of users you have are smaller, no you didn't say that devs make a lot of money, but said that devs benefit from the non-refund system as if they money they're getting from no refunds is a lot and if the app is that bad, file a complaint with Palm. They will refund you.

    From your responses (and lack of) we can now agree upon that:

    1) The review system is flawed, through no fault of users or devs.
    2) The review system is not the first point of contact, email and forums are.
    3) While devs can update the blurb and often do, this is a poor form of communication because you only check every one or two weeks.

    which is pretty much what devs in this thread have said ad nauseam.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetenterre View Post
    No, but those are not a majority of the bugs out there, as I am sure you already know.
    For all of us devs here who do take the time to remove as many bugs as possible from our apps before we release them, they absolutely do make up the majority of bugs.

    The many 1-star "would not install" reviews out there are proof of this.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetenterre View Post
    Yet again you choose to dissemble and obfuscate. Why? As you already know, (because I have told you) I was not referring to developers leaving reviews; I was referring to their updating their descriptive blurb (which many of them already do). Why do you keep pretending otherwise? Is there something wrong with you? Are you merely some species of troll/WUMmer?



    {sigh} Some developers already inform anyone who is interested, through their descriptive blurb, which bugs are fixed. Why are you pretending otherwise? Should I be applying Hanlon's Razor to your posts?

    It speaks volumes that you have chosen , twice now, not to respond to my query a to the remedy you would suggest for users who buy an app that does not do what the developer claims for it. (What you have done is obfuscate by making laughably inappropriate comparisons with MSWindoughs etc., displaying a stunningly profound ignorance of the Sale of Goods Act, etc,. but not suggested an actual remedy. I'm not holding my breath.
    First: I'm obfuscating? You removed the part from my quote where I mentioned that they cannot read the reviews. If a developer cannot read a review, how do you expect them to receive your bug report you left in that review??

    Second: Many of my users (who've purchased my app) can attest to the fact that I constantly listen to their suggestions and build their requests in to one of my apps. One such user is even responding to your post. That user is "malpha"

    Third: I did mention a remedy... SEVERAL times. What I said is that if the developer offers no support or refuses to fix a bug, etc. then the user should leave a review stating just that, and file a report with Palm. After Palm receives enough reports, they will pull an app.

    Fourth: You seem to have issues with responding in an appropriate and adult fashion when you are changing names of products just to make jokes, while saying I'm "making laughably inappropriate comparisons" (i.e. changing MS Windows to MSWindoughs)

    Fifth: I'm not a troll, as is obvious by my # of posts, and the fact I spend over 60 hours a week on P|C and the Palm Dev Forums combined providing assistance to end users and to developers alike.

    Sixth: I personally do not believe developers should be spamming their description to report on what bugs are fixed. I believe Palm should provide a place for this directly within the App Catalog (though, I myself, have a section at the bottom of my descriptions for bug fixes, as there is no area for it yet from Palm). Regardless, this is not an appropriate area for people to look for help. A user should not request assistance, nor should a developer have to attempt to provide assistance, through the App Catalog.

    I would say let's agree to disagree on this one, but I'm sure you won't bother reading 99.9% of this post.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  18. #38  
    question...

    Why is emailing the dev so hard? They havw built this functionality into their app!

    If you bought a product on ebay.. Would you attempt to contact the seller before leaving a bad review?

    My guess would be yes.. Since you have a better chance at a resolution to your issue.. Leaving negative feedback doesn't help you resolve the issue

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by arthurthornton View Post
    First: I'm obfuscating? You removed the part from my quote where I mentioned that they cannot read the reviews. If a developer cannot read a review, how do you expect them to receive your bug report you left in that review??
    Yes, you are obfuscating. This thread was started by a developer because he had read an unfavourable review. Why are you pretending that he cannot read it if he has already done so?


    Second: Many of my users (who've purchased my app) can attest to the fact that I constantly listen to their suggestions and build their requests in to one of my apps. One such user is even responding to your post. That user is "malpha"
    This thread is not about your app (read the OP).

    Third: I did mention a remedy... SEVERAL times. What I said is that if the developer offers no support or refuses to fix a bug, etc. then the user should leave a review stating just that, and file a report with Palm. After Palm receives enough reports, they will pull an app.
    That is not a remedy. It does exactly nothing for the poor sod who has already wasted his . It is a preventive measure that prevents other people wasting their in the future. I was asking you for your suggestions for a remedy. You have still not given one.

    Fourth: You seem to have issues with responding in an appropriate and adult fashion when you are changing names of products just to make jokes, while saying I'm "making laughably inappropriate comparisons" (i.e. changing MS Windows to MSWindoughs)
    I apologise for not having noticed your successful SOH-bypass. I'll refer to it as "MSWindoze" instead.

    Fifth: I'm not a troll, as is obvious by my # of posts, and the fact I spend over 60 hours a week on P|C and the Palm Dev Forums combined providing assistance to end users and to developers alike.
    WUMming is determined by content, not number, of posts.

    Sixth: I personally do not believe developers should be spamming their description to report on what bugs are fixed.
    Providing relevant information is not "spamming". A number of excellent developers already do this. You even say that you do it. Are you a spammer as well as a WUMmer, then?

    I believe Palm should provide a place for this directly within the App Catalog
    They don't. Most of us have to live in the world that actually exists, not the one we wish existed. YMMV.

    Regardless, this is not an appropriate area for people to look for help. A user should not request assistance, nor should a developer have to attempt to provide assistance, through the App Catalog.
    A review of my posts shows that I have not asserted that the App Catalogue is somewhere that a user should look for help. I suggested it as somewhere that a user can report problems, primarily for the benefit of other potential users.

    I would say let's agree to disagree on this one,
    I really don't give a toss whether you agree or not. I do care that you keep pretending that I have asserted things that i have not asserted.

    but I'm sure you won't bother reading 99.9% of this post.
    Wrong. Again.
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