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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    who is this webOSdev on twitter?

    Seriously if you were building something and shared with a few that you were supposed to trust (because of agreements) and they leaked details without your permission; would you not take those rights away from ppl to prevent copying etc? I think the WebOsdev was pretty nice about it. He doesn't even place the blame with P/C ...
    Are bad people born that way? Or did something go terribly wrong?
  2. #122  
    Wait a second.
    From what I gathered these are the facts:
    * A bit of info was leaked from a source that probably violated a NDA with Palm
    * PC reports infos about Webos
    * Palm temporarily halts early access admissions

    Why does the OP accuse PC of anything?
    PC did its job.

    Palm, PC, devs, users - while we all share many interests - in some instances there's a conflict - that's just in the nature of things.

    Palm is in the Smartphone business - publishing info is a secondary means to achieve the goal of more units sold.

    Devs are in the app selling business: Again publishing infos is a means to an end. Same for phones sold.

    Users want high quality devices and cool apps - preferably for hardly any money and please answer any questions I have right now. Overall success of Palm, devs or PC are all just secondary means to personal ends.

    PC is a publishing site, the success of devs and phone sales is a necessary requirement - but not the primary interest.

    Sometimes a leak is bad for a company. Sometimes they want stuff leaked. It's not the business of a news site like PC to divine somehow what kind of leak this is. Somebody will publish it anyway - when it's out it's out.

    Finally - is this really about the VKB?
    If so - this makes it about the most boring leak of all time.
    The only surprise is that Palm didn't provide a VKB earlier and somebody else had to hack one. But I get that Palms resources were stretched. Not a big deal. But that they would get around to providing one is total non-news IMHO. After all the talk about Slate/Pad/Tablet/Whatever devices that was the most obvious thing in the world.

    It can be argued that a dev has screwed other devs.
    What is a 100% sure is that Palm decided to police it this way. Nobody made them halt early access. If that would lead to any delays or problems with the release of the SDK or significant apps - Palm would be the biggest looser in this.

    At the end of the day it's in Palms interest to get many devs, and get a decent percentage of them early involved is also in Palms own interest.

    Accusing PC for doing their Job makes no sense.

    A bit of a storm in a tea cup IMHO.

    Everybody calm down.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  3. #123  
    It bothers me that that because of the sins of one or two devs, all are punished. If any way possible, it would be nice if Palm only punished those who are responsible for the leak.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    It should have been obvious that posting this story was not in the best interest of Palm or the devs, but news is news, and with the lack of it around here, it's hard to blame them for not getting excited themselves about this very minor, IMO, VKB leak.
    Sorry - have to disagree with you here.
    What is obviously not in Palms interest here?
    Small bits of info about a likely addition of a VKB is not in Palms interest in what way exactly?

    If this were the first VKB ever - then yes - I'd see your point. New tech, possibly on its way to the patent office - yes, there could be damage there.
    But that's not the case here. VKB is old news. webos was overdue in getting an official one that almost everybody expected there to be on day 1.

    There is 0 harm here IMHO. Palm decides to drop a bomb on this - that's their right. Looks to me like a symbolic measure about something small and harmless to teach a lesson. Could just be for the media buzz.

    Not in the devs interests - well it *is* actually in devs interest to learn that a VKB is coming. Not everybody would have noticed it.
    Getting early access delayed - sucks for the devs that are affected by this of course. I really sympathize with anybody who was about to get access and will now be delayed for days or weeks.

    But - again - such access is as much in Palms interest as it is in individual devs. Palm *needs* those devs working on cool apps - the sooner the better. Heck - they twice threw price money out to motivate more devs to get apps out.

    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    That being said, it would be nice if P|C did take into consideration the consequences of its actions when posting news on the site.
    In extreme cases - yes. If you have reason to believe that stuff you want to publish could get somebody killed or bankrupted - sure - think hard about what you do.
    But a run of a mill leak - especially a boring one like VKB - this is their business.
    This is a news site - not the marketing department of Palm.

    Without the homebrew community and PC keeping the buzz going - webos would be dead.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Maybe you should just keep your opinions to yourself then, puny little member.
    I hope this was written in the "tongue in cheek" font. Hard to tell from my phone.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I hope this was written in the "tongue in cheek" font. Hard to tell from my phone.
    *firmly* =)
    again the need for sarcasm font Palm, get on that!
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    There is 0 harm here IMHO. Palm decides to drop a bomb on this - that's their right. Looks to me like a symbolic measure about something small and harmless to teach a lesson. Could just be for the media buzz.
    It's not the content of the information that causes harm in this case. It's the fact that their private information (under NDA) was compromised and released. Because this is not the first time this has happened, and because they gave the developers a final warning during the last event, they are now doing what they have to do to protect their information. Perhaps information about possible future VKB plans are not too harmful, but other leaked information may be.

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Not in the devs interests - well it *is* actually in devs interest to learn that a VKB is coming. Not everybody would have noticed it.
    Getting early access delayed - sucks for the devs that are affected by this of course. I really sympathize with anybody who was about to get access and will now be delayed for days or weeks.
    There is a private forum where developers can legally share information about the Beta SDKs. So no, leaked information is of no benefit to us.
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  8. #128  
    yada yada yada....end page 2 ....skip to page 7.....scroll all the way down.....reply:
    There are alien bodies and spacecraft in Area 51 aka Groom Lake.


    Are they going to stop developing stealth bombers/fighters now?


    (sorry had to break up the negative vibe)
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Sorry - have to disagree with you here.
    What is obviously not in Palms interest here?
    Small bits of info about a likely addition of a VKB is not in Palms interest in what way exactly?

    If this were the first VKB ever - then yes - I'd see your point. New tech, possibly on its way to the patent office - yes, there could be damage there.
    But that's not the case here. VKB is old news. webos was overdue in getting an official one that almost everybody expected there to be on day 1.

    There is 0 harm here IMHO. Palm decides to drop a bomb on this - that's their right. Looks to me like a symbolic measure about something small and harmless to teach a lesson. Could just be for the media buzz.

    Not in the devs interests - well it *is* actually in devs interest to learn that a VKB is coming. Not everybody would have noticed it.
    Getting early access delayed - sucks for the devs that are affected by this of course. I really sympathize with anybody who was about to get access and will now be delayed for days or weeks.

    But - again - such access is as much in Palms interest as it is in individual devs. Palm *needs* those devs working on cool apps - the sooner the better. Heck - they twice threw price money out to motivate more devs to get apps out.



    In extreme cases - yes. If you have reason to believe that stuff you want to publish could get somebody killed or bankrupted - sure - think hard about what you do.
    But a run of a mill leak - especially a boring one like VKB - this is their business.
    This is a news site - not the marketing department of Palm.

    Without the homebrew community and PC keeping the buzz going - webos would be dead.
    You've missed my point.
    As far as PC being a news site, you are correct. But I think they are more than that. So do many of the members here, and I think they see themselves as more than that as well.
    look, if PC wants to report on this leak, that is there decision. But the leak, and the reporting of it, has hurt devs. Yes, the majority of the blame lands squarely on the schoulders of the dev who leaked the info. However, if PC is trying to be more of a central hub for community members, enthusiasts, and devs alike, then publishing this story rather than reporting the leak, or at the very least scolding him/her and rejecting the story on the basis that it was a breach of the devs NDA with Palm, was the wrong thing to do.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    It's not the content of the information that causes harm in this case. It's the fact that their private information (under NDA) was compromised and released. Because this is not the first time this has happened, and because they gave the developers a final warning during the last event, they are now doing what they have to do to protect their information. Perhaps information about possible future VKB plans are not too harmful, but other leaked information may be.
    Sure. No disagreement there. But that is a deal between Palm and devs. And I can see good reasons why Palm decides to crack down on this now. That's their right.

    But that didn't make it wrong for PC to do do its own job and publish infos that it's members want to read.

    Often enough companies *want* leaks. Sometimes even arranging them. Which particular leak makes Palm go ballistic or just milk for media attention is not PCs deal to figure out.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    There is a private forum where developers can legally share information about the Beta SDKs. So no, leaked information is of no benefit to us.
    Good point.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  11. irateb's Avatar
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    #131  
    This is Palm's fault. If we had new hardware, webOS 2.0 would be more like icing than the actual cake. And back to the off-topic forum for me, since there is nothing really to talk about here that someone else hasn't already voiced...

    PS - I don't actually think this is Palm's fault...well sorta...
  12. #132  
    lets not forget that the offending code is still shown in the PC article.
  13. #133  
    maybe we should all be flabbergasted at the person who leaked it? just my two cents.

    the point of the OP is not lost on me. i am just in general not a fan of any news outlet censoring or doing anything besides geting news and reporting it, with perhaps some of their views added in.

    as long as the views are based on the news, and not the news being based on their views.
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 09/03/2010 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Watch your language - Forum is PG-13
  14. #134  
    Just a note I got an email accepting me into the Early Release Program, which I had requested to join the day the news about it no longer accepting people.
  15. #135  
    Although I haven't read the entire post, I feel like I need to also share my dissatisfaction with the handling of this leak by P|C.

    Since P|C is basically the main hub of all homebrew, and Palm has a very open and accepting relationship with said homebrew, I would have thought that there would be some mild discretion when it came to releasing NDA-sensitive material. The attention-grabbing nature of this post makes me ashamed to say that I'm a part of this community that thrives off of promoting unjust and illegal activities (like breaking an NDA).

    It is really a disservice to developers who are trying to create day-1 ground breaking apps for everyone to enjoy in webOS 2.0. It's a major set back and everyone here is to blame.
    Developer of Ultimate Hockey, netSpeed, BatteryMonitor, The Ghastly Headset,
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  16. #136  
    As has been stated and restated...P/C doesn't have the NDA. The person who leaked the info presumably has, and violated, the NDA. P/C is a news source. And justifying the censorship of ANY news source for the purpose of protecting the interests any particular group of people, however well-meaning they may be, is a very slippery slope I hope we don't approach.
  17. #137  
    Way to go P|C.

    I dnt care if they signed the NDA or not if it violated it which they KNEW it did they could have just skipped over the news. It's a moral issue and P|C failed with crashing colors.
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by igobytony View Post
    maybe we should all be flabbergasted at the person who leaked it? just my two cents.

    the point of the OP is not lost on me. i am just in general not a fan of any news outlet censoring or doing anything besides geting news and reporting it, with perhaps some of their views added in.

    as long as the views are based on the news, and not the news being based on their views.
    I think we are all angry at the dev responsible for doing this. Absolutely.

    and if PC ran an article saying someone had leaked something and palm was responding...that would be one thing. They posted the actual code, whispch is still there. It's one thing to report that a another paris hilton tape has been found. It's another to post it for others to see.

    my 2 cents
  19. #139  
    How is this situation any different than this situation? I'm sure there was a NDA in both cases. I didn't hear any complaints [about P|C] from anyone back in July.
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 09/03/2010 at 04:49 PM. Reason: [about P|C]
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  20. #140  
    well, did palm object or warn after that? Do we know if anyone did anything wrong?

    but, the source is credited. No idea where it came from or if it's covered by an nda. Amd it could mean lots of things: a mockup, photoshop, or even a prank.

    either way, it's not posting actual code covered by NDA.

    I can see lots of differences.

    same with a dev reporting 'Pre2' hitting his server through his application. Nothing about that was NDA, or verifyiable as true.

    but all that is secondary. The key thing is someone violated HPs trust. And it's possible that PC may have harmed their relationship with palm. Don't know, hope not.

    we all sent emails, etc telling HP that the best assets they got in the acquisition were this community of users and homebrewers - and precentral.

    knowledgable, loyal (well, at least until EVO shipped) and passionate about webOS. They embraced us. We need to act like we value that embrace and continue to earn their confidence. Especially since this apparently happened recently with a warning from Palm.

    it could have come down a little bit different and been no big deal. Hopefully it will not remain a big deal.
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