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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    I don't know if I'm qualified to discuss this as I am not a developer but:

    PreCentral is a business. I am sure there was a discussion of the pro's and con's, but at the end of the day, the thought the cons: a short-term chilling in their relationship with Palm was worth the pro's (spike in hits leading to increased profit and reputation for being a good source for new WebOS info).

    People, that is the business PC is in. This great developer/user community is a means to that end, not the end in and of itself. I am sure you wish they would police themselves, but they will always be doing that with THEIR goals and interests in mind.
    That is exactly right, and if that is the type of business P|C wants to be, more power to them. However, I think they, and we, see their place in the community as much more than that. I come here daily for news, to chat, and to basically keep up on everything that has to do with my phone. That includes interviews with members of the HPalm team. If P|C wants to continue being this type of bridge between the company and its users, then it has to understand that not only is this irresponsible reporting, but it also paints themselves in a bad light. And that light will be reflected on the community, whether anyone likes it or believes it or not.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  2. #102  
    Right. It would be great to stay in good standing with Palm. I'm pretty sure posting stuff like this on the front page isn't the best way to do it, but suit yourself, Derek Kessler.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    There have been leaks in the past to PreCentral. They resulted in a very serious email from Chuq (Palm Dev Relations) in the early access forum basically giving us a final warning about leaks. He indicated very clearly that there would be serious repercussions for any further leaks.

    Given PreCentral seems to learn about all other information in the early access forums, I'm sure they were aware of this. So knowing this, the leaker still sent this information to PreCentral and PreCentral still posted it.

    The second result is something that has been privately discussed in the early access forum and therefore I can't discuss it here. However this action is damaging to all developers in the program (not just new ones) as well as webOS 2.0 development in general.
    I'd hate to throw a what-if out there, but what if the leaker wasn't under NDA? That gives them the more incentive to leak it since they aren't under a tight leash. This also explains why the leaker wouldn't care if it was leaked. Since he/her wasn't a developer, they didn't have access to the private forums either.

    I see it as a random person who got ahold of the SDK somehow and is not a developer so they don't care for the repercussions.

    One last note: What if this is just an attack from fandroids? You have to look things from the eyes of the leaker. What do they get from this?


    If I helped you or you have downloaded one of my files,
    then least you could do is click the "Thanks" button.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssul View Post
    I'd hate to throw a what-if out there, but what if the leaker wasn't under NDA? That gives them the more incentive to leak it since they aren't under a tight leash. This also explains why the leaker wouldn't care if it was leaked. Since he/her wasn't a developer, they didn't have access to the private forums either.

    I see it as a random person who got ahold of the SDK somehow and is not a developer so they don't care for the repercussions.

    One last note: What if this is just an attack from fandroids? You have to look things from the eyes of the leaker. What do they get from this?
    If the leaker didn't have access to the private forum and the SDK, then someone who does have access leaked it out somewhere. So either way, someone violated the NDA.

    I doubt this is an attack by another platform's community or company. If they had access to the SDK, they would leak much more than this one bit of information. I think it's just someone who thought he/she found something interesting and thought it would be cool to share it without thinking of the consequences of this action.
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  5. #105  
    in order to have early access, the developer had to already have at least one app in the catalog. I wonder if that app is still in the Palm app catalog?
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    Right. It would be great to stay in good standing with Palm. I'm pretty sure posting stuff like this on the front page isn't the best way to do it, but suit yourself, Derek Kessler.
    I think we all agree that P|C is a business that can (and should) do what is best for business.

    I also agree with you that it's hard to imagine how they thought this would be good for business. If it hinders their relationship with Palm or makes things harder for developers, doesn't that contribute to fewer webOS buyers to become potential PreCentral members/visitors? Ad revenue is based on stuff like that, so I wonder how any of this translates in to "good for business". But they must think it does.
    Last edited by Workerb33; 09/03/2010 at 10:27 AM.
  7. #107  
    My Pre has been softly crying this morning....If you listen carefully you might hear it.
    "Patience, use the force, think." Obi-Wan


    Ready to try Preware? Get this first: Preware Homebrew Documentation
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    I doubt this is an attack by another platform's community or company. If they had access to the SDK, they would leak much more than this one bit of information. I think it's just someone who thought he/she found something interesting and thought it would be cool to share it without thinking of the consequences of this action.
    Very true. The part about the attack from another platform was kind've a joke, but I forgot to mention that. I agree that it is probably just someone who didn't mean any harm and didn't understand the consequences. You have to think of all the developers who probably DID come across leaks, but kept their mouth shut. All it takes is one bad apple and considering the size of the early acess program, things like this will happen.


    If I helped you or you have downloaded one of my files,
    then least you could do is click the "Thanks" button.
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    #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Assuming that P|C publishes anything all willy-nilly and without thought would be misinformed I suspect. This isn't their first BBQ.
    Then why did they do it?
  10. Speebs's Avatar
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    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    I don't know if I'm qualified to discuss this as I am not a developer but:

    PreCentral is a business. I am sure there was a discussion of the pro's and con's, but at the end of the day, the thought the cons: a short-term chilling in their relationship with Palm was worth the pro's (spike in hits leading to increased profit and reputation for being a good source for new WebOS info).

    People, that is the business PC is in. This great developer/user community is a means to that end, not the end in and of itself. I am sure you wish they would police themselves, but they will always be doing that with THEIR goals and interests in mind.
    That's the sad thing about unabated capitalism. Hopefully it isn't true, and that PC members actually mean something more than mouseclicks and dollar signs to the owners. I know many of us here like the idea that it is a "community" and I would hate for us to be proven wrong.
  11. #111  
    What if Steve Jobs was the leaker! And apple secretly got an app into the app catalog. Do beta/web apps count?
  12. #112  
    Just because the early access program allowed developers to download the new emulator, that doesn't mean it's limited to just that one developer. P2P sharing and file transfers will probably happen to either needy developers or "anonymous sources."
  13. #113  
    PC didn't screw developers, a developer did.
  14. #114  
    I just popped in to say how much I enjoyed having Keith tweet that he thinks I'm a *horse's rear end* for expressing my disagreement on running that story. That's the way to build community.

    edit:not sure how the original term (3 asterisks) wasn't PG-13, but the mod's replacement sounded much worse, even in latin. I hope this is better.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 09/03/2010 at 11:38 AM. Reason: latin term sounded worse
  15. #115  
    Interesting point to look at this from the standpoint of the leaker.

    Go back and read P|C's review of webOS 2.0. They put it out there (the VKB) when talking about Just Type, that the "placeholder" above the cards would likely mean there would be a VKB as why would you need that placeholder if you only had a physical keyboard and could just start typing. Pressing the placeholder would bring up the VKB.

    So the "leaker" reading that review, then going thru the code of the SDK, finds the VKB reference and pops it off to P|C as proof their intuition on Just Type was correct.

    So P|C reports it to "connect the dots."



    While after reading thru this thread I now see the "Leaker" as the main issue, it doesn't seem anyone involved considered the ramifications of their actions once the story broke.

    So in that regard the blame is equally shared...the "Leaker" for breaking NDA, P|C for reporting a story they should have known would cool their relationship with HP/Palm and hurt developers, and HP/Palm for not vetting the developers in full before allowing them into the early access program.

    This whole issue is going to cause all parties involved to rethink their actions in the future.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I just popped in to say how much I enjoyed having Keith tweet that he thinks I'm an Equus africanus asinus for expressing my disgreement on running that story. That's the way to build community.
    Maybe you should just keep your opinions to yourself then, puny little member.
    I'm looking forward to Dieter chiming in on things. Either way he goes, my hope is that the concerns are not simply swept away deemed as petty. I think it is a serious question of whether or not this leak should've been published.
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 09/03/2010 at 11:28 AM.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  17. #117  
    Dieter better do the right thing and delete that post on the front page, as a gesture to Palm. Have to stay on good terms somehow, and the faster Chuq and Palm can deal with this, the better.
  18. #118  
    who is this webOSdev on twitter?
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 09/03/2010 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Language - Keep it PG-13
    .,;-#$^***^$#-;,.

  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    who is this webOSdev on twitter?
    Isn't that chuq? LOL.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I just popped in to say how much I enjoyed having Keith tweet that he thinks I'm an Equus africanus asinus for expressing my disagreement on running that story. That's the way to build community.
    Just shows how professional people are.

    Haven't seen you around much. How's everything going?
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 09/03/2010 at 11:39 AM.
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