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  1. #41  
    This was an irreponsible breach of trust between P|C and devs, and between P|C and Palm. Let's not forget how often a mod deletes something or sends an infraction because a post might harm the "close relationship? they have with Palm,

    Ninja, puhleeeez!
    Last edited by Workerb33; 09/03/2010 at 02:15 AM.
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  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaurav View Post
    You seem to have a weak understanding of the concept of publishing. As of this moment there have been no front page stories by P|C publishing anything. A dev leaking some screenshots on the forums here does not equate P|C publishng anything. Whether P|C intends to post a story about this leak in the future, I have no idea.



    How do you think palm should "teach PC a lesson". Promoting a vibrant community for a platform vs protecting IP is a fine line.
    So you are saying that the current front page story isn't actually there, and that the OSK info isn't covered by NDA?

    Gotcha.
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  3. #43  
    Why didn't they just delete the post? True, it's not a violation for them to have it up here, but in the interest of webOS future development, I think it should be deleted. What we've really learned here is that Palm regularly checks PreCentral, and is listening/reading everything we write and post.

    Also, thanks anonymous source. Thanks for releasing details that screwed the rest of the future and current community over.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I completely disagree. This was an irreponsible breach of trst between P|C and devs, and between P|C and Palm. Let's not forget how often a mod deletes something or sends an infraction because a post might harm the "close relationship? they have with Palm,

    Ninja, puhleeeez!

    NONE of the mods here work for Precentral or Palm. They are all volunteers. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $none$ $of$ $the$ $mods$ $here$ $signed$ $any$ $NDA$ $with$ $palm$ $nor$ $have$ $any$ $formal$ $relationship$ $with$ $Palm$. $Please$ $do$ $not$ $make$ $false$ $accusations$.
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  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaurav View Post
    NONE of the mods here work for Precentral or Palm. They are all volunteers. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $none$ $of$ $the$ $mods$ $here$ $signed$ $any$ $NDA$ $with$ $palm$ $nor$ $have$ $any$ $formal$ $relationship$ $with$ $Palm$. $Please$ $do$ $not$ $make$ $false$ $accusations$.
    I made no accusations, and I freaking know that they are volunteers. And I am grateful for all they (and you) do as mods to keep things organized.

    My point is that mods delete stuff that could be considered detrimental to the relationship with Palm. I think that's a GOOD thing. I think it's appropriate and benefits the PeCentral community. So it's irresponsible for a P|C editor to do something that would be considered bad if it were done by a user/member.

    Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am NOT being critical of Mods. We owe all of them a huge thank you. But I AM being critical of the P|C editor that decided to run that story, and even include an update about "hoping the early access program" is reopened soon.

    If P|C had quietly deleted the thread with all those screenshots and NOT run the feature article, this might have all gone away. Instead, P|C made sure this turned in to a big deal.

    Are we clear now? No accusations or criticisms of the mods from me.

    Ps, I hope someone wrote down the name of the guy that posted the screenshots. He has created quite a mess.
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  6. #46  
    From my dev team and I..... *long chain of expletives* Wow, just, wow. So someone working in the Pentagon discovers a "NOC List" with the location of field operatives and gives CNN a call... CNN does:

    A) Runs the story "Secret location of NSA\CIA field operatives discovered, details inside!"

    B) Posts nothing and reports "tipster" to the government for treason.

    Granted an technology NDA is not a life\death situation but it can be considered "Corporate Treason" against Palm. Corporate Espionage is a felony offense in the US btw.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    Ps, I hope someone wrote down the name of the guy that posted the screenshots. He has created quite a mess.
    More than that. Chuq has his name and even screenshots of his post from another developer. Needless to say, that person will never have a future in app development for webOS.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  8. #48  
    suk it up it's already been leaked what can you do about? Man up
  9. #49  
    notice how palm doesn't blame PC, they blame the leaker. if i wasnt this site, it woulda been another. as for the reaction to such a minor leak, palm needs to ensure that more important information doesn't start leak out by appearing harsh.

    im sure a they'll find a solution that protect their competitive edge and makes sure developers are given ample time to develop and update their apps.
  10. #50  
    I understand both sides of this issue and I do not want to take sides here. But a thought occurred to me...

    Could this all be planned to generate buzz? A viral campaign so to speak?

    So they "pause" the early access program for a week, then restart it. But Palm's close relationship with P|C continues and things continue to roll along. By all accounts, one could assume a VKB was on it's way given the talk about a PalmPad so this isn't the biggest piece of corporate espionage on the planet. So they use this "leaked" info to generate talk about Palm again, not only on this site, but Engadget, Gizmodo, etc. Then if enough of the tech sites pick it up, it goes all the way to the big ones like CNet, etc.

    It just seems to me this COULD BE free publicity. And we all know there is no good or bad publicity. Get HP and Palm's name out there in the discussion again and then drop full details of webOS 2.0 with new hardware by November and you've got a winning combination.
  11. #51  
    Ok, show's over folks.

    Time to let this issue rest.. agreed?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Furuboru View Post
    Ok, show's over folks.

    Time to let this issue rest.. agreed?
    Not really since we (developers) will deal with it for a while, which means you will too.

    This means that we won't get versions of webOS as quickly, meaning 2.0 will probably be delayed. That, or a host of bugs will be introduced because someone just had to leak information limiting the time we had to test.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  13. #53  
    Ok, am I understanding this - some EXISTING early access developer leaked something, so they are now stopping/delaying access to new people WHO COULD NOT HAVE LEAKED INFO?

    Wouldn't it be better to kick out the existing people, since one of them was the leaker?

    Or add more new people, since they COULDN'T have been the leaker?

    Sigh....
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by ka1 View Post
    Ok, am I understanding this - some EXISTING early access developer leaked something, so they are now stopping/delaying access to new people WHO COULD NOT HAVE LEAKED INFO?

    Wouldn't it be better to kick out the existing people, since one of them was the leaker?

    Or add more new people, since they COULDN'T have been the leaker?

    Sigh....
    What are you talking about ??? You must be smoking some crazy stuff
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by ka1 View Post
    Ok, am I understanding this - some EXISTING early access developer leaked something, so they are now stopping/delaying access to new people WHO COULD NOT HAVE LEAKED INFO?

    Wouldn't it be better to kick out the existing people, since one of them was the leaker?

    Or add more new people, since they COULDN'T have been the leaker?

    Sigh....
    It was most likely someone who was added today, got access, dug around in about 10 minutes time and immediately went to P|C to leak.

    They aren't punishing the new applications, but rather rethinking the strategy. This most likely means that they will be having new requirements.

    Also note that your entire post is flawed. something like 66% of the requests were approved (as in, most people who requested access on Tuesday were approved). That would make me question why you say it had to be an "existing" person when in reality it was somebody who most likely just got access. See why they're probably going to put some restrictions on it.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by ka1 View Post
    Ok, am I understanding this - some EXISTING early access developer leaked something, so they are now stopping/delaying access to new people WHO COULD NOT HAVE LEAKED INFO?

    Wouldn't it be better to kick out the existing people, since one of them was the leaker?

    Or add more new people, since they COULDN'T have been the leaker?

    Sigh....
    And if I might ask, why is it you want 2.0? You do not have an existing app to test out (that I found), so you can probably wait a bit longer to get the 2.0 beta anyhow.

    And also, why is it you feel entitled to the beta?

    Also, you shouldn't be directing anger at Palm but rather at the person who caused this whole mess in the first place.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaurav View Post
    NONE of the mods here work for Precentral or Palm. They are all volunteers. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $none$ $of$ $the$ $mods$ $here$ $signed$ $any$ $NDA$ $with$ $palm$ $nor$ $have$ $any$ $formal$ $relationship$ $with$ $Palm$. $Please$ $do$ $not$ $make$ $false$ $accusations$.
    Sounds like you still "don't get it"
    Thought of the day :
    No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway
  18. StevenX's Avatar
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    #58  
    This whole thing is ridiculous. When I first read about the leak on Twitter, I thought someone had actually shared the whole beta SDK online or something, rather than screenshotted a couple of pathetic lines of code everyone knew about already.

    Palm taking such a stupidly aggressive stance on it doesn't help anything. Palm can't afford to lose the relatively few developers they have, and punishing innocent potential developers for a trivial NDA breach is no way to treat developers. The breach is SO trivial and SO insignificant, I don't get the fuss at all. It's something we all knew was coming; a developer broke the NDA to confirm something essentially already confirmed by implication. What's the big deal? It's not even a particularly interesting or revolutionary features, and it's something which every other smartphone OS has already and we were always gonna get at some point. Who cares!?

    Palm throwing all their toys out the pram is a poor move. It harms developers, the community and customers (potentially, indirectly), and doesn't serve to further any of their interests in any way. I could see the issue if webOS 2.0 was uploaded online in its entirety (constituting copyright theft), but this is a huge overreaction.

    I'm growing increasingly disappointed in the way Palm relates to its customers and developers.
    Their marketing and public relations are terrible. Their "coming soon, soon!" answers to EVERY question are frustrating. People are clearly looking for new hardware and software, having been faithful to hardware and software which, despite showing huge potential, does have some limitations. Many people are STILL waiting on 1.4.5 with no end in sight from Palm or the carriers. These people, patiently waiting for overdue updates, shouldn't be punished for spurious reporting of trivial future update feature information.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenX View Post
    This whole thing is ridiculous. When I first read about the leak on Twitter, I thought someone had actually shared the whole beta SDK online or something, rather than screenshotted a couple of pathetic lines of code everyone knew about already.

    Palm taking such a stupidly aggressive stance on it doesn't help anything. Palm can't afford to lose the relatively few developers they have, and punishing innocent potential developers for a trivial NDA breach is no way to treat developers. The breach is SO trivial and SO insignificant, I don't get the fuss at all. It's something we all knew was coming; a developer broke the NDA to confirm something essentially already confirmed by implication. What's the big deal? It's not even a particularly interesting or revolutionary features, and it's something which every other smartphone OS has already and we were always gonna get at some point. Who cares!?

    Palm throwing all their toys out the pram is a poor move. It harms developers, the community and customers (potentially, indirectly), and doesn't serve to further any of their interests in any way. I could see the issue if webOS 2.0 was uploaded online in its entirety (constituting copyright theft), but this is a huge overreaction.

    I'm growing increasingly disappointed in the way Palm relates to its customers and developers.
    Their marketing and public relations are terrible. Their "coming soon, soon!" answers to EVERY question are frustrating. People are clearly looking for new hardware and software, having been faithful to hardware and software which, despite showing huge potential, does have some limitations. Many people are STILL waiting on 1.4.5 with no end in sight from Palm or the carriers. These people, patiently waiting for overdue updates, shouldn't be punished for spurious reporting of trivial future update feature information.
  20. StevenX's Avatar
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    #60  
    Constructive.
    On a related note, from reading around some more it seems more may have happened than first meets the eye. From what I gather, a developer posted screenshots on these forums too (the thread now being deleted); is that true? In that case, that's perhaps more serious...
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