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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by KN0CW View Post
    I started reading this to see if someone came up with a faster boot sequence but then it deteriorated to a bashing of the airline policies.
    It's known as the Thread Deterioration Sequence (TDS).

    Make sure you use the correct cover page for your TDS reports....
    My device history:

    - Jim J.

    (On Sprint for many years)
  2. #82  
    LOL a chroot only takes a couple seconds, its the luna that takes so long :P
  3.    #83  
    Ok, from power on to chroot only a couple second (note: how many precisely?), and that is how many MB read, processed & loaded? What's the sequence of Luna start-up?
  4. #84  
    Like I posted in another thread, OK, if LunaSysMgr is the culprit for slow boot ups, why? What is it doing that it requires so much time to complete? I'm wondering if it- all LSM's fault. Isn't a Luna Reset the same thing as what happens when LSM starts up? A Luna Reset takes much less than a minute on my Pre Plus, so that's less than 25% of the time my phone takes to boot.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by govotsos View Post
    Like I posted in another thread, OK, if LunaSysMgr is the culprit for slow boot ups, why? What is it doing that it requires so much time to complete? I'm wondering if it- all LSM's fault. Isn't a Luna Reset the same thing as what happens when LSM starts up? A Luna Reset takes much less than a minute on my Pre Plus, so that's less than 25% of the time my phone takes to boot.
    Just take a look in the /var/log/messages file to see exactly what happens at boot. You can also novaterm into the device within about 10 seconds of the start of the boot and run top or ps to see all the processes yourself.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdaneophyte View Post
    Please read and understand the challenge on thread title and subsequent posts on boot/reboot time. The post above yours give a clocked boot time (4 minutes plus). As I've written, probably only 18 sec of that is needed to read from the flash media (ROM). So what happened during the rest of that time? CPU working to turn pretty hourglass? Waiting for network initialization delay?
    I wouldn't foul you for just saying 5 minutes.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by KN0CW View Post
    I started reading this to see if someone came up with a faster boot sequence but then it deteriorated to a bashing of the airline policies.

    73 de kn0cw
    *Raises hand* Guilty, as charged.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  8. lvpre's Avatar
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    #88  
    my girlfriend's samsung t-139 flip phone that can only basically make and receive calls can't even boot up in 5 seconds..it is at least a good 10 or 15.
  9. nullr's Avatar
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    #89  
    5 seconds is insane. I would like to see a >30 second boot for essential services. Even if its just the phone app with keyboard and no gui (or minimal). This could be extremely helpful nothing would suck more than waiting for your phone to boot up while getting shanked. The rest could boot in the background at normal speed. That sounds like alot of work but definetly something I think every phone company should get on smartphones. The Pre has the separate boot when holding the volume key. If something like this was implemented (even if reboot from dumb/smart mode was needed) it might be useful. I know the you can ssh to the phone seconds into the boot and with luna-send you can make calls. Maybe this would be a way to go.
  10. R_E
    R_E is offline
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    #90  
    I have and idea for achieving this though i realize this is not something the homebrew community could achieve. At one point i heard of a quick boot mechanism for windows which involved basically running the boot sequence at shutdown and then dumping the booted system files to ram when the computer.

    Now this might work on the webos as well, but you usually restart, which would defeat the purpose it this. So to resolve this, after it loads for the first time, you would run a process once the phone is done loading that loads and saves the necessary files in a folder and then transfer them to ram when you restart.

    I do see some potential problems with this:
    - This is essentially creating a hibernation file at the point or boot so it would not work for any restart that would need to reload system files (such as after a patch is installed)
    There could be a special "full" restart for this reason, but this further complicates things and complication usually = bad.
    -This also could slow down the phone for the first few minutes after boot.
    -Still has to wait to load the linux core, so that's at least 30 seconds plus the times it takes to load into ram

    Just an idea
  11.    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrHeathenScum View Post
    I wouldn't foul you for just saying 5 minutes.

    You might not, but the person I replied to might.
  12.    #92  
    To those of you who think the challenge is impossible, please remember the demonstration is done on an EEE 900 series with a Celeron M 900 MHz processor & a PATA SSD and a Fedora distribution (out of the box boot time 45 sec). An IBM Thinkpad with a Hard Disk gets 10 seconds optimized boot. They have a hard limit of loaded modules 75 MB @ disk I/O of 25 MB/s. If an EEE can do it in 5 seconds, then why can't a phone do it?
    If you say the EEE has a x-86 processor, remember it's an outdated & slow one. Palm Pre has an ARM Cortex A8 processor.

    P.S.: The Intel guy gave the tools to check boot performance, see here:Arjan van de Ven's blog
    Last edited by pdaneophyte; 07/16/2010 at 05:31 AM. Reason: add a postscript
  13. #93  
    I started a thread a while ago addressing this issue...
    I'm now running the F105 1Ghz Kernel, and still have a boot time of about 6 minutes. I think I do have an idea now as to why, however...

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ed-800mhz.html
  14. #94  
    The EEE gui isn't written in Javascript. How long does it take to boot the EEE and launch a browser?

    More realistically, supposing it takes 30 seconds to boot Linux and initialize the radio and system services, you could throw up a simple framebuffer app that lets you make phone calls or play Tetris instead of showing the glowing logo.
  15. Targon's Avatar
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    #95  
    What most people don't understand is the basic structure of the OS, and that is the fundamental reason why people just don't understand why things can take so long.


    Now, any OS is really a combination of the kernel(which has the code needed to talk to each component in the system), as well as the user interface and supporting code for things like user accounts. With that said, you have to look at how things work.

    The GUI, or graphical user interface is what most people expect from any modern operating system. Along with the GUI, you have a set of APIs that allow applications to interact with the OS to function properly.

    A simplified explanation of what is going on with WebOS is that you have the basic Linux kernel that gets loaded up, with the various supporting code for command line access(yes, even from a PC). This is covered up by the loading screen which pulses "Palm" to hide all the stuff going on. That stuff includes starting up all the APIs and loading all the supporting software which is required just to bring up the launcher and such.

    Remember, you have things like Java that MUST be loaded for many basic features to work, and it can take a while for it all to be completed before the system is ready. Picture getting the phone app up, but not being able to make a call because the system is too busy loading the other components? In Microsoft Windows, don't you get annoyed when you have a desktop but can't really do anything because all the background apps are still loading, and just make the machine run slowly until they are done?

    Now, when WebOS 2.0 comes out, I suspect(without having any knowledge of the development cycle at Palm) that a big focus will be to streamline the whole boot process so we get things up on the screen faster, even if the entire OS is not loaded up yet. Do you want the PHONE to be ready first, or text messaging, or maybe you don't care about that and just want to get to play your games(which requires ALL of the code to be loaded before you can play).

    That is the key...getting that GUI up with all the hooks needed for apps to run properly takes a while. If another OS loads faster, it is because it is loading less.

    Try doing a file copy of 500MB worth of files, it can take a while.
  16. #96  
    While not comprehending all the details of the individual processes, I DO understand the basic concepts of the boot process. I just don't understand why it takes so long with it all being solid state. I checked your example by copying a 1.2 GB file from an old USB stick (not one of the new super fast ones) to my hard drive and it took less than a minute.
  17. #97  
    my phone boots in less than a second.















    and now i can post links.
  18. #98  
    what i find even more annoying is if its a dead battery, as happens, it needs to charge before booting, where as most smartphones i have played with charge while booting. annoys me alot.
  19. #99  
    with the hardware specs in the pre, it shouldn't take more than 60 secs to boot to gui. any longer and it's a wrong software engineering approach.
    Franklin eBookMan >> Palm Zire71 >> Lifedrive with flash mod >> Palm Pre Plus
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by kamazepine View Post
    with the hardware specs in the pre, it shouldn't take more than 60 secs to boot to gui. any longer and it's a wrong software engineering approach.
    I look forward to your proof of concept software release.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
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