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  1.    #1  
    I wish I had more time to go through all the inner workings of webos but reality is, I don't. I'm willing to offer a donation to anyone who can figure out why the Verizon GPS just doesn't work. I've read every GPS thread in the forums and nothing fixes it. The only thing that I can say is that in 1.3.5.1 opening VZ Navigator first and then minimizing it, allowed all my gps apps to work. In 1.4 it didn't work anymore and when Verizon released 1.4.1.1, it now works again if I minimize the Verizon Navigator.

    I'm willing to run any patches or tests on my phone for anyone who wants to send it my way. I'm tired of just not being able to use half my apps because they're all gps enabled and none work. I think opening VZ Navigator every time to use something is not only annoying but also suspicious.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by blueray; 04/30/2010 at 10:43 PM.
  2.    #2  
    this is sad. Not one developer? This is exactly why Verizon will continue to block gps. If no one is willing to do anything, they'll just keep charging.

    I cannot believe not one developer is willing to even look at this - I'm willing to pay.
  3. #3  
    <<deleted dupe thread>>

    Our forum guidelines advise no crossposting.

    Thanks,
    -Berd
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by blueray View Post
    this is sad. Not one developer? This is exactly why Verizon will continue to block gps. If no one is willing to do anything, they'll just keep charging.

    I cannot believe not one developer is willing to even look at this - I'm willing to pay.
    I know you are frustrated. However, Verizon is NOT blocking GPS. There are many of us that have no problem with the GPS on our Pre+ phones.

    There are several threads here that might have some info to help. But, I think you can be confident that it is one or both of these:

    1. Defective GPS radio in the phone
    2. Configuration problem with working GPS Radio


    FYI, it seems to be a common recommendation that you open your Location Services App and TURN OFF "auto-locate". That way each location-based app (such as Google Maps) will ask your permission to turn on the GPS radio when you launch it.

    That's the way I've always done it to save battery, so I can't say for sure that it will help. But, it's worth going outside for with that configuration. Launch Google Maps and let the phone sit for 5 or 10 minute and see if it gives you a GPS lock.

    The way my Garmin GPS works, the longer it's been since the last time it locked on my location, the longer it will be to get a lock when I turn it back on. Something to do with minor changes in geosynchronous orbits of the satellites.

    This is also true if I'm far away from where I was when I turned it off. If I shut it off at the airport and turn it back on in another city, it will take a few more minutes to figure out where it is. I'm not saying the Pre+ GPS works that way, but it might. I have (I'm not a fan of using my phone for driving directions because I need a bigger GPS screen, so I only use my Pre+ for Google Latitude and Yelp-like services)

    Maybe you can try those things. Once you determine that isn't working, I highly recommend that you stop buy your closest Verizon company-owned store (not a mall kiosk or big-box retailer). Ask the technician to take one of their display models out in the parking lot with you and compare the behavior of the GPS on each phone. If he can't get your phone to lock onto your location within about 50 feet (mine is usually more like 25 feet) then he should keep replacing your phone until he can get an accurate location.

    If it's a huge problem, you owe it to yourself to make them help you get a working phone.

    But I can't embrace the idea that Verizon blocks or cripples the GPS. There are enough Pre+ owners on these forums that have it working to dispel the idea that Verizon is scheming and somehow my phone escaped their evil plot.

    I'm on my third Pre+ and all worked for me. That tells me it should work for you, and Verizon should make it work for you even though you will have to spend a but of time at a VZ store with a technician...

    I hope you will do that and report back to this forum with your results.
  5.    #5  
    thanks Cantaffordit for your response! Unfortunately I've tried everything you mentioned above and all the suggestions in all the threads, but they just don't work. I've event went through 4 phones before Verizon stopped offering me replacements and said that this is just the way the phone is. I called Palm and had them send me one directly, but when they realized it really wasn't working, the tech on the phone told me that gps is the way it is because of Verizon, so people will buy their software. I don't know what to believe anymore but I'm tired that every time I buy a phone on Verizon, there's always something crippled.
  6. #6  
    That is a shame because my VZ experience has been different. That's one of the reasons why I suggested you investigate at a VZ store where you can compare the behavior of their display phones, perhaps a Pixi+, and even another smartphone (don't use an Android because I don't trust Google. They could be the one creating the problem since they have a dog in the GPS application hunt).

    I really don't think VZ is crippling things. I think you should also send a PM the Hard Beatz who is a Palm employee that is active on this forum. He may be able to give you some private insite on what is happening.

    I know if no other way to explain why some people have GPS issues and others don't. Especially since I have tons of patches and mods on mine and have had 3 working phones since January.

    I feel bad for your situation. If the feature is that critical, you may have to consider a different phone or switching to Sprint. Personally, I couldn't give up the VZ network or my Pre+, but others might.

    I found that I need a REAL GPS for driving, and I have a 4.3" Garmin with lifetime traffic service that does great, and costs less than if I paid 24 months of VZ Navigator.

    If using your phone for an accurate location is the deal breaker, that's really a pain.

    Unfortunately, I don't think it is possible to have a homebrew developer solve this with an app, which is why there wasn't any response to your post.

    Hopefully you will grab a sandwich and have a picnic lunch in the parking lot with the local VZ technician and they will be able to meet your needs. Let us know if that happens and what the outcome is.
  7.    #7  
    thanks for your responses, you've been very kind. What makes this even more suspicious for me is that I've actually PMed hartbeatz but he hasn't replied. I even posted in a forum right below him asking to comment, but he did not. The fact that he's not responding just makes me really suspicious.
  8.    #8  
    one other comment that makes this really difficult to swallow.... why is it when I open VZ Nav and keep it minimized, does the GPS work fine?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by blueray View Post
    thanks for your responses, you've been very kind. What makes this even more suspicious for me is that I've actually PMed hartbeatz but he hasn't replied. I even posted in a forum right below him asking to comment, but he did not. The fact that he's not responding just makes me really suspicious.
    That's odd. However, as a Palm employee, he may not be allowed to speak on certain topics. I wouldn't be happy if that were true in this case, but it's possible.

    In addition to visiting the store, you should call VZ support and ask to be escalated to their very best Pre technician. Try it on different days to see if you get different people. I have spoken to severl (one's name is Mack) and they are brilliant. They may be able to help you. I'd start at the VZ store, just so you can get some side-by-side info from several phones with the same config (and a witness from VZ).
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by blueray View Post
    one other comment that makes this really difficult to swallow.... why is it when I open VZ Nav and keep it minimized, does the GPS work fine?
    That is definitely odd. I can tell you that I've never opened the VZ Nav app. I have the patch that hides it, in fact.

    I wonder if there is anything to that? You'd have to totally doctor your phone back to square one to try it, probably. Interesting that not everyone with GPS issues has that same observation. I've seen a few posts that say sometimes even the ZV Nav app has trouble, but my memory could be wrong on that.

    It makes no sense that they would intentionally make you keep VZ Nav open to make Yelp, FourSquare, or Latitude work. This issue isn't about Google Maps, but every location-based service.

    I'm glad I haven't had this issue, but I wish I knew someone that does so I could spend some time outside comparing things to my Pre+. This is a puzzler and I would sleep better if I knew the answer.
  11.    #11  
    Since 1.4.1.1 came out, I should probably doctor the phone back to its original form, especially if I'm going to call VZ, because I'm sure they'll tell me to do that also.

    So I will doctor my phone, hide the VZ nav app and try again. If not, I will doctor it again, call VZ and see what they say. I'll be back in the next few days to post my findings. It may take me a while because I'm tied up with a few things.

    My only irritation at this point is if they do send me another phone it will likely be used and probably have some other issue. I was so glad to finally get a phone that worked on the 4th time around. I'm very hesitant to return this phone only to get a new set of "other" problems. Here's to hoping....
  12. #12  
    I have been oddly fascinated with this topic as there seem to be lots of people with the issue, lots of people with ideas, and lots of people (including me) that don't have the problem.

    I decided to try a few things on my phone. I was surprised when I "sort of" had the accuracy issue which I hadn't seen previously, and I did some things to troubleshoot. Finally, the issue seemed to correct itself. The clue for me was that the inaccurate location is showed for me just happened to be my location when I opened Google Latitude yesterday... and I think that could be a clue.

    Here is what I just did. I put my phone in airplane mode (to make sure it wasn't triangulating with cell towers - so I needed WiFi for Google to get the maps at launch). I rebooted my phone. I turned on the LBS and Wifi. I waited 2 minutes. I launched Google Latitude and told it to update my location. About 3 minutes later, it locked my location as said I was about 1/2 mile from where I actually am. What confused me is that it actually was showing me where I was the last time I updated my location yesterday - and it had been accurate to about 50 feet... and that might be a clue... could it be that it isn't overwriting my location with the new one? I sent myself a txt message with the coordinates.

    Then, I shut down google maps and latitude. I started up a free app called "Send My Location for WebOS". I like that app because it understands that it hasn't checked my location in awhile and asks if it should check. I told it to check my location. After about 2 minutes, it had a fix. I clicked the button telling it to open google maps to show my location... and it showed my as being withing about 25-30 feet of where I was actually standing. It's very cloudy/rainy today, so locking my coordinates was a bit slow. I switched to the satellite view and I could tell where it was indicating in my yard exactly. Very accurate, indeed.

    It's almost like the text-my-location app had to force Google to refresh the map location. Stranger still, the txt I sent with my coordinates BEFORE telling the app to refresh my location was accurate when I opened it up (after turning off airplane mode so it could send the message). That tells me that Google knew where I was, but didn't know that it needed to redraw the map....maybe?

    I can't run any more tests today, but that should give you some ideas that the problem might be with the app and not VZ. It also should give you some tests to run when you have time.

    To review: I turned off every radio (phone, wifi, lbs, etc) and restarted my phone. I launched a free stopwatch app to time things. I turned on LBS and Wifi and then launched Google Latitude. I told it to find me, and then show me on the map (which launches Google Maps). It showed a location from yesterday. I sent my coordinates via txt via "send my location" without telling that app to find me.

    Then I shut down all 3 apps and relaunched "send my location" and told it to find me. It cycled for about 2 minutes and then said my previous location had a really old time stamp. I told it to update, and it churned for another two minutes and updated my coordinates. I told it to show me on Google, and it shows me within 25-30 feet of where I was standing.

    Then I opened the txt I sent when Google was showing the wrong location, and the coordinates were actually from the correct location and Google Maps redrew the map to show my correct location...

    Try variations on that (always with the phone radio in airplane mode so you know it isn't triangulating off cell phone towers) and see what you get. Pay special attention to where Google maps says you are, and see if that is a location that you've actually been to or driven past (to indicate that it was displaying a location you have actually been to...)

    Load up all of the location-based (free) apps you can find on the app catalog, and try sending your location to your -email from each of them, so you can open them on your PC to see the location on Google maps from a device with no radios at all (your PC).

    It's only a hunch, but I think you might have similar results. It also lines up with another post I saw previously, where the person said they only use location-based services on the golf course. He said that sometimes it took several holes of golf for the GPS to give him an accurate fix to he could use the golf-pin-locator app (but never more than 9 holes). From that point, he says that it stays accurate for the entire round.

    All of this may indicate that there may be some delay in how the GPS finds its location the first time. It's possible that most people kill the apps in frustration long before it figures out where it is or decides to update the map. I'm not saying that's acceptable, I'm saying that might be a clue where the bug is.

    As I think about it, generally when I access the GPS for Latitude or Send-My-Location (which isn't very often) it's because I am sitting in a restaurant, waiting in a car, or generally stationary - and I am meeting someone or wanting someone to be able to see my location with Latitude on their phone... So I am stationary, the phone may be in the same spot or near the same window for quite awhile without me looking at my watch and getting frustrated if it doesn't give my location right away. Remember, that's what I use my Garmin GPS for...

    Finally, at some point you should drive somewhere like a starbucks or a friends house, where you can get a wifi connection and repeat all of this. The point is that you want to be working with known locations that you know WHEN you were actually there. That will help you differentiate between an inaccurate reading rather than an "old" reading that was accurate previously...

    I think we may be on to something...
  13. ght
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    #13  
    Wow. Excellent work. Best clue(s) to the root cause I've seen yet. I noticed a similar issue today. Google Maps shows me in an old location until I use another gps app to update it. Seems like Google Maps has a cache that needs clearing, but I can find no option to do so.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by GHT View Post
    Wow. Excellent work. Best clue(s) to the root cause I've seen yet. I noticed a similar issue today. Google Maps shows me in an old location until I use another gps app to update it. Seems like Google Maps has a cache that needs clearing, but I can find no option to do so.
    now try this shortcut. Go to an new location and confirm the location is wrong in google maps. Shut down google maps. Put the phone in airplane mode for 2 minutes. Turn airplane mode back off. Launch google maps and see if it is accurate. I just saw thus in another post. Might e related...
  15. #15  
    i'm on my 2nd pre and each of them has had the same problems described by the OP. I've read many threads here on GPS issues and this one is fascinating. I'm very interested to see if any of these tests can lead to an answer. I like the idea of google maps cache needing to be cleared. i wonder if actually google could be the culprit...
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by streetskooler View Post
    i'm on my 2nd pre and each of them has had the same problems described by the OP. I've read many threads here on GPS issues and this one is fascinating. I'm very interested to see if any of these tests can lead to an answer. I like the idea of google maps cache needing to be cleared. i wonder if actually google could be the culprit...
    cool. did you run outside and try the airplane mode suggestion?
  17.    #17  
    @cantaffordit: I appreciate your work in testing this and I sure hope you come up with something. Unfortunately no matter what I do or what app I try (not even google maps), I cannot get a GPS signal until I open VZ Nav. I have let my phone sit there for a good 10-15 minutes. Unles VZ Nav is open, no GPS for me.
  18. ght
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    #18  
    I will try the airplane mode on/off trick tomorrow and report back. Finally feels like we're getting somewhere...
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by GHT View Post
    I will try the airplane mode on/off trick tomorrow and report back. Finally feels like we're getting somewhere...
    It's one or both of the following:

    1. Some sort of cache or memory of a previous location that has to be cleared
    2. A need for something to actually force the GPS to figure out it's postion

    Either or both of them could be going in here. That's why my tests were in airplane mode - which prevents any triangulating from towers.

    It also explains why turning on VZ Navigator seems to kick-start Google Maps.

    Google Maps worked perfectly on my Centro. It's a safe bet that when Google re-wrote it for WebOS, they could have a few bugs, as could WebOS.

    Let's keep after this!
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by blueray View Post
    @cantaffordit: I appreciate your work in testing this and I sure hope you come up with something. Unfortunately no matter what I do or what app I try (not even google maps), I cannot get a GPS signal until I open VZ Nav. I have let my phone sit there for a good 10-15 minutes. Unles VZ Nav is open, no GPS for me.
    Did you try my tests using text-my-location and other location based service apps? I think we are getting a picture of what is going on...
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