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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    It's one or both of the following:

    1. Some sort of cache or memory of a previous location that has to be cleared
    2. A need for something to actually force the GPS to figure out it's postion

    Either or both of them could be going in here. That's why my tests were in airplane mode - which prevents any triangulating from towers.

    It also explains why turning on VZ Navigator seems to kick-start Google Maps.

    Google Maps worked perfectly on my Centro. It's a safe bet that when Google re-wrote it for WebOS, they could have a few bugs, as could WebOS.

    Let's keep after this!
    While I commend you for your efforts, please do not take this the wrong way. Google didn't mess this up, because if they did - we'd have seen the same issue on the Pre on Sprint. The version of Google maps on that webos release is identical. I can't see how Google would have gotten it right on one palm pre but messed it up for the other?
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Did you try my tests using text-my-location and other location based service apps? I think we are getting a picture of what is going on...
    Unfortunately, I had tried every GPS enabled app on my phone and not one of them gets a signal unless I open VZ Navigator. In fact, here's my screenshot when I dial ##GPS# and then press "Get Fix"
    Attached Images Attached Images
  3. ght
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    #23  
    I'm beginning to think that VZnav may be holding cached gps information, or causing the gps system to hold that info. It may very well be why so many Verizon folks have trouble with other gps apps. This would also support cantaffordit's experience with never having launched VZnav.

    Has anyone tried the doctor and hide VZnav patch to see if they can duplicate his findings?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by blueray View Post
    Unfortunately, I had tried every GPS enabled app on my phone and not one of them gets a signal unless I open VZ Navigator. In fact, here's my screenshot when I dial ##GPS# and then press "Get Fix"
    i've been heavily researching and tweaking around this issue. please advise how you have "location services" setup.
    1- turn off "auto-locate"
    2- click prefs -> then "locate me using" -check GPS (NOT google services)

    it's imperative that auto-locate AND locate me using are set as above. VZW Pre+s have a bug that prevents gps apps from choosing between google services and the GPS chipset. i believe that VZnavi has the "fix" for that bug, that's why it properly chooses aGPS (triangulation via cell towers) or actual GPS satellite fix (this can take several minutes if you've either toggled the gps off since it has to reaccuire more than one satelitte signal to get accurate.)
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhodnettejr View Post
    i've been heavily researching and tweaking around this issue. please advise how you have "location services" setup.
    1- turn off "auto-locate"
    2- click prefs -> then "locate me using" -check GPS (NOT google services)

    it's imperative that auto-locate AND locate me using are set as above. VZW Pre+s have a bug that prevents gps apps from choosing between google services and the GPS chipset. i believe that VZnavi has the "fix" for that bug, that's why it properly chooses aGPS (triangulation via cell towers) or actual GPS satellite fix (this can take several minutes if you've either toggled the gps off since it has to reaccuire more than one satelitte signal to get accurate.)
    Wow, that's great info. Is the bug in WebOS? Or in something else?
  6. ght
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    #26  
    Could a mod sticky this thread as the official gps problem solving, no whining allowed thread? There are several gps threads active right now, and I'd like to see two - one for whining and vz bashing, and one strictly for finding solutions.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by GHT View Post
    Could a mod sticky this thread as the official gps problem solving, no whining allowed thread? There are several gps threads active right now, and I'd like to see two - one for whining and vz bashing, and one strictly for finding solutions.
    You would need to PM a mod for them to see your request. Not sure if this is the best thread. I'd recommend that we start with a new one that has a well-written introduction as the first post. Thoughts?
  8. ght
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    #28  
    You're right. I've been reading so many of these gps threads, I forgot which one I was in.
  9. #29  
    Hey I just wanted to say that I followed the advice of jhod above and turned off auto locate & restarted my phone then tried to get a gps lock. it was raining here today so I had to stand by a window. i was unsuccessful at the first one i tried so i moved to the other side of the house and was able to get a gps lock using ##gps# first, then got a lock in google maps and a few other gps apps. this is a good sign bc i haven't been able to get a gps lock without opening vznav b4. i will try this again tomorrow on the way to work and also while im at work and report back!
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by GHT View Post
    You're right. I've been reading so many of these gps threads, I forgot which one I was in.
    quick thought. We need a short description of what google maps does/doesnt do. Last night I put my Pre+ and blackberry curve side by side running google maps. I pulled both batteries and then waited for a lock. Then I drove about 10 miles.

    I never use google maps on m blackberry and now I rememer why. Webos version isn't really any better in terms of ui, though.

    point is, gmaps seems to make some assumptions like showing previos location, showing closest tower etc until it gets a lock. After battery pull it just shows usa map until lock.

    when screen goes off, it stops updating until screen is turned on. The it has to load new map before it can update. All of which is annoying and may look to a casual user as 'gps' doesn't work.

    but, it's the same poor experience on my bb (at&t) as it is on my Pre+.

    the Pre+ would occasionaly stray a few hundred feet to the side of the highway when the bb didn't. Arriving in my driveway the Pre+ finished about 50 ft further from where I was and where the bb put me (within about 3 ft). The bb got the initial lock faster by about 10 seconds.

    but, the point is most of the irritation/confusion I see was consistent on both devices. I want to see if I can find detailed info on proper use. Various use cases, and how it interacts with other lbs apps - including google latitude, which I also have on both.

    I can't help but think it's alt least partially that users expect a clean and ovious user experience, and google maps for mobile is just poorly written, except for the much different and expanded version they included with the motodroid.

    also, which thread are you sticking with. I think this one should be closed once we all have a comon place to post. There is a 'general gps pre+ issues' thread we could use...

    thoughts?
  11. ght
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    also, which thread are you sticking with. I think this one should be closed once we all have a comon place to post. There is a 'general gps pre+ issues' thread we could use...

    thoughts?
    Agreed. We should close this thread. The topic is not the right one for the troubleshooting we are doing. We can either go with the "General GPS Pre+ Issues" thread or create a new one titled "Verizon GPS Troubleshooting - NO WHINING"
  12. #32  
    Well just wanted to update my gps story. I fired up google maps and ##gps# in my car on the way to work this morning. 30 mins and several unsuccessful attemps later I arrived at work without a gps lock. I stepped out of my car and tried ##gps# again and walked toward the building. After about 30 secs of being outside I had a solid lock.

    So my gps works, (yay?), but the signal is so weak it won't even work inside my car. I suppose you must be outside to get a clear lock using this method.

    However I can get a solid lock in my car/house when I open VZnav within about 10 secs, so maybe I'm just as confused as I was before...
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by GHT View Post
    Agreed. We should close this thread. The topic is not the right one for the troubleshooting we are doing. We can either go with the "General GPS Pre+ Issues" thread or create a new one titled "Verizon GPS Troubleshooting - NO WHINING"
    I like the idea and title of a thread for people that want to figure this out. It needs to have a good intro post to that end, and it needs to be something a mod agrees to make an official sticky post. Do you want to contact a mod? I can do it over the weekend, but I am slammed for the next few days. I've only been able to mess with it because I've been driving around this week more than normal.

    You can PM me or respond here, and then we can determine next steps.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by streetskooler View Post
    Well just wanted to update my gps story. I fired up google maps and ##gps# in my car on the way to work this morning. 30 mins and several unsuccessful attemps later I arrived at work without a gps lock. I stepped out of my car and tried ##gps# again and walked toward the building. After about 30 secs of being outside I had a solid lock.

    So my gps works, (yay?), but the signal is so weak it won't even work inside my car. I suppose you must be outside to get a clear lock using this method.

    However I can get a solid lock in my car/house when I open VZnav within about 10 secs, so maybe I'm just as confused as I was before...
    I appreciate the update. Please continue as you have time. In terms of being in the car, was it up in the dashboard in full sight to the sky? GPS is a line-of-site radio (sort of) and you will find that to be especially important when obtaining the initial position lock. Once locked, you 'might' get away with moving it a little, but the radio in a phone wont ever have the power of a true gps. That's another reason I use a Garmin rather than my phone...

    Finally, if you put it on your dash during the day, be sure to watch the temp and I recommend that you have the temp warning patch installed. Yet another reason I don't use my phone as a GPS (didnt on any of the gps capable phones I've had)... your windshield is like a big greenhouse for your dashboard, and your phone will get hot. Yesterday I did that for 15 minutes and the heat alarm went off. I had it on the dash again in the late afternoon (6pm) and it overheated again. I would have to rig up a ProClip to hold my phone in front of an air vent if I wanted to use my phone this way. I use a ProClip for my Garmin, but not to keep it cool.

    Anyway, next time you try it make sure your phone has a clear view of the sky, and run the patch that will warn you if things get too warm...

    Cheers,
  15. #35  
    thanks for the advice cantaffordit.

    So I just got home from work and I have some good news. First I tried getting a lock using google maps, then trackster but wasn't able to get one. Then I tried ##gps# and got one in roughly 10 secs. After that both google maps & trackster got locks. I then got in my car and put my phone on the passenger seat and start driving. It never lost the signal all the way home!

    I do have the Uber patch installed for overclocking with the device temp warning patch which did go off after about 15 mins of using the gps and car charger so I guess that is something to watch. I got nervous so I had my pre hanging out the window to cool down (haha).

    So it seems like getting the lock is the tricky part but once you get it you're good. I just download the app smartrunner, which uses gps to track ur running courses (among other things). gonna go for a run and check that out so I'll report back later.
  16. ght
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    #36  
    From what I'm reading in the latest posts, there could be a couple of things at work here.

    1. Initial lock is difficult to come by. A clear view of the sky seems to help. (duh) The GPS receivers in phones are not as powerful as those in, say, your Garmin nuvi or TomTom. They make take a long time to get an initial lock, but once they do, it should be pretty solid.
    2. VZnav assists with initial lock by providing aGPS data, including satellite orbital information to the GPS unit.
    3. The phone may be storing a cache of old satellite information that VZnav either updates or clears upon launch, allowing the GPS to start fresh and look for satellites.
    4. Rebooting the phone also seems to clear this cache, if it exists.

    So, it appears that Verizon is not crippling the GPS, but they are certainly appear to be going out of their way to make sure they don't assist it.

    The question that remains for me is, What triggers the GPS to lose it's memory of your location (or put GPS to sleep)? Last night, I was out house-hunting and was able to load and close Google Maps at will and it always regained its satellite lock within a minute. When I got home, I turned off Google Maps and went inside. This morning, I came back outside, turned on Google Maps, and could not get a signal lock. I was in the same location I was the night before, and I had not restarted my phone overnight.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by blueray View Post
    ... Google didn't mess this up, because if they did - we'd have seen the same issue on the Pre on Sprint.
    Yes we did and its still an issue with the Pre 's on Sprint. I had a customer yesterday with this issue. Granted its not nearly as bad as it was before, but we still see some issues.

    In fact in the early days of the Pre, I myself had to open Sprint Nav to kick start GPS.
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