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  1. rayln's Avatar
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    #41  
    I don't believe it's unethical for end users to use an ad blocking service for the same reasons I don't believe it's unethical for developers to use ad implementation services.

    I do believe that there is no one size fits all system as far as revenue generation is concerned.

    there are situations in which ads may be appropriate/efficient/well implemented and those where the opposite is true.

    creating a product and then simply slapping down ad support onto it as a means of generation isn't necessarily a well thought out plan.

    a smart developer needs to also be a smart business person and consider different strategies, approaches and options.

    see: iAds, paid dlc content, social gaming, premium content etc.

    were I the creator of an ad supported product with a failing revenue stream, I wouldn't rant about the end users.

    I would realize and acknowledge market conditions and myriad other considerations are not conducive to my current model and would adjust accordingly.
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by rayln View Post
    see: iAds, paid dlc content, social gaming, premium content etc.
    A micro payment model does not apply to all types of apps.

    Quote Originally Posted by rayln View Post
    were I the creator of an ad supported product with a failing revenue stream, I wouldn't rant about the end users.

    I would realize and acknowledge market conditions and myriad other considerations are not conducive to my current model and would adjust accordingly.
    This thread was not started to be a rant for developers. It was posed as question.
  3. rayln's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by gobanjoboy View Post
    A micro payment model does not apply to all types of apps.
    impressive. it's almost as if you completely ignored the point of the post being that no universal model necessarily exists for revenue streams.


    This thread was not started to be a rant for developers. It was posed as question.
    a question posed using loaded and emotionally charged language.
    I'm not sure what you were expecting the general response to skewer towards, regardless this is partially the outcome.
  4. #44  
    Hey everyone, it's a free market. Or at least that's the goal. As long as it's possible to block ads, some people will. Developers who offer ad-supported apps need to consider that the same way they decide how much to charge (or not charge) for an application. As consumers, each of you needs to decide what you're comfortable with. In my opinion you're free to block ads just as you shut your door in the solicitor's face, hang up on the telemarketer, throw away your junk mail, block pop up windows, and filter your spam. Conversely, if you want to pony up for a paid app or click on a banner or send a donation, then go for it. That's the free market at work and it's the only fair method.

    I chose to rely on donations for my homebrew app. It's been downloaded over 19,000 times and I've received about $15 in donations, minus PayPal fees. Suffice to say, I'm not planning on putting my kids through college this way. I suspect I'd get similar results if I relied on ads. I'm not bitter, that's just reality.

    Personally, I think the only way to make real money as a developer is to sell the app outright, and charge what the market will bear. I have a second app in the bag that I will never release in homebrew or support solely with ads. If I do release it, it will be via the app catalog, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of paying the extra taxes and providing all the end-user support. I use it regularly and had fun writing it and that might just be good enough for me.
    "The service on my iPhone is so bad I'm thinking of calling it my AOL phone." -- Jim Gaffigan

  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by gobanjoboy View Post
    The problem with this Patch is; it blocks adServer address device wide. It's using Linux to redirect ad servers to localhost.
    No, the patch is not using Linux to block anything. The patch is adding the hostname of the relevant ad server to /etc/hosts with an address of 127.0.0.1; Google gethostbyname for full details for how this is implemented on Posix systems.

    If this is really such a big issue for you, use the IP address(es) of the relevant ad server(s) instead of the hostname.

    Cheers, Steve
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by sbromwich View Post
    No, the patch is not using Linux to block anything. The patch is adding the hostname of the relevant ad server to /etc/hosts with an address of 127.0.0.1; Google gethostbyname for full details for how this is implemented on Posix systems.

    If this is really such a big issue for you, use the IP address(es) of the relevant ad server(s) instead of the hostname.

    Cheers, Steve
    Hi Steve,

    You are correct. In a way I misspoke. I was try to not get to technical. My point was that this patch effected the system globally.

    My guess is, developers can not use IP addresses because the API URL is a sub domain... at least it is for AdMob. This makes it where the HTTP request does not get routed to the correct endpoint on the network/server.
  7.    #47  
    In any event, it’s pretty clear where most people stand. I agree that people have a right to do what they want with their devices. I can’t say I agree with this patch’s method, but I acknowledge people’s rights to use it. In all honesty, in the past I would have been on the other side of this fence, but I now see things from a different perspective; that of a hard working developer. I acknowledge this is not the only perspective.

    I really did start this thread to just see where people stood and start a discussion. Some people’s comments have been very constructive and some haven’t. That is to be expected on a user forum where the user age ranges from the teens and up. There was a comment earlier that said I started the thread with an emotionally charged message. I didn’t feel that way at the time. I am code monkey not a communications major. If it was not P.C. enough, I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone. I am a very direct person and speak with passion.

    I don’t have much more to say. I would still like he hear more constructive feedback on the subject matter though.
  8. rayln's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by gobanjoboy View Post
    In any event, itís pretty clear where most people stand. I agree that people have a right to do what they want with their devices. I canít say I agree with this patchís method, but I acknowledge peopleís rights to use it. In all honesty, in the past I would have been on the other side of this fence, but I now see things from a different perspective; that of a hard working developer. I acknowledge this is not the only perspective.

    I really did start this thread to just see where people stood and start a discussion. Some peopleís comments have been very constructive and some havenít. That is to be expected on a user forum where the user age ranges from the teens and up. There was a comment earlier that said I started the thread with an emotionally charged message. I didnít feel that way at the time. I am code monkey not a communications major. If it was not P.C. enough, I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone. I am a very direct person and speak with passion.

    I donít have much more to say. I would still like he hear more constructive feedback on the subject matter though.
    I enjoyed this post.
    it's very refreshing to see someone acknowledge their viewpoint is not static and the existence and validity of others.

    I was literally laughing for a few minutes... I'm a communications major! hahaha.

    I think the most important and ultimately meaningful aspect to discuss is what to do when the ad supported model is not working.

    it seems irrelevant in this situation whether or not ad blocking is xyz because the reality is that ad blocking exists, period.

    other questions to consider are: to what extent? is it significant enough to render the model profit negative? č-- this one particularly on an app by app basis.
  9. #49  
    stop b!tch!n'
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blubble View Post
    You actually don't have the right to block ads in a free app. You do have the right to simply not use the app. That is the only ethical solution.


    For some of us, selling our apps is not an option at this time due to Palm's App Catalog restrictions. What would you have us do, just give away our work? I don't think so.

    This kind of thing is precisely the reason I have been hesitant to release a homebrew version of my app. As a result, I don't make any money and the user community doesn't get an app they want to use.

    On the other hand, users could simply accept a tiny banner ad that only gets served occasionally. I make a few(very few) bucks and the user community gets a free app that they love. That's the only way the situation works out fairly.

    You can bet that when I publish a free homebrew version, it will have ads and will have ways to disable the app if you block the ads. You of course, always have the option to simply not use it.


    When Palm allows me to release my app, there will certainly be an inexpensive, completely ad-free version, but in the meantime, it will serve a little ad a few times an hour.

    BTW, Let me be very clear in that I would never condone putting ads in a paid app.
    Why can't you release it through the url program and just charge for it on your site? Are they not allowing undocumented API's on that as well? If so thats a misstep.... I really dont know just asking....
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  11.    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Why can't you release it through the url program and just charge for it on your site? Are they not allowing undocumented API's on that as well? If so thats a misstep.... I really dont know just asking....
    For my app personally, and I'm referring to [People At WallyWorld], I wrote it to make it easy for people to view peopleofwalmart.com content not just their RSS feed. I don't feel it's my place to charge people money to gain access to non original content. I just created an interface for webos. I guess you could think of it as looking at peopleofwalmart.com using firefiox and a Grease Monkey script. I plan to submit it to palm. That is not an issue.
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjcarter View Post
    stop b!tch!n'
    Again, thanks for the constructive feed back.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by monkeydog View Post
    Hey everyone, it's a free market. Or at least that's the goal. As long as it's possible to block ads, some people will. Developers who offer ad-supported apps need to consider that the same way they decide how much to charge (or not charge) for an application. As consumers, each of you needs to decide what you're comfortable with. In my opinion you're free to block ads just as you shut your door in the solicitor's face, hang up on the telemarketer, throw away your junk mail, block pop up windows, and filter your spam.
    But you're not taking what they're offering before slamming the door in their face - bad example.

    Conversely, if you want to pony up for a paid app or click on a banner or send a donation, then go for it. That's the free market at work and it's the only fair method.
    And this topic isn't about capitalism, but whether the ad blocking patch is ethical to developers. Why not just NOT download apps with ads? Oh, because they want the product, just for free with no strings. Why not a patch that blocks apps with ads in them? Then you don't have to be bothered with them, correct?

    I chose to rely on donations for my homebrew app. It's been downloaded over 19,000 times and I've received about $15 in donations, minus PayPal fees. Suffice to say, I'm not planning on putting my kids through college this way. I suspect I'd get similar results if I relied on ads. I'm not bitter, that's just reality.
    Ad revenue streams can be profitable, and are very useful. People may not want to buy the app, or can't, but why not click on an ad from time to time and help the developer? It's better than asking for a donation - just a click. Ad revenue is a PROVEN way of generating revenue without having to sell. And the "bandwidth" argument people are using is just silly. If you're using an app that uses the developers server, who do they think is paying for that bandwidth? The developer. With the revenue from the ads. No revenue will eventually = no app.

    Personally, I think the only way to make real money as a developer is to sell the app outright, and charge what the market will bear. I have a second app in the bag that I will never release in homebrew or support solely with ads. If I do release it, it will be via the app catalog, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of paying the extra taxes and providing all the end-user support. I use it regularly and had fun writing it and that might just be good enough for me.
    And then your app gets pirated, or you just lock it away and pet it and say "I made you".

    In my opinion, ad blocking is the same as pirating or hacking an app.
    WOG Dev - WebOS Group http://www.WebOSGroup.com
    PMP Dev - http://www.PimpMyPre.com
    Apps: WOG O.S.K., WOG Card Keeper, WOG Glowstick, WOG Kid Protect, PreLoad, PimpMySounds
  14. orizzle's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Said from someone who's probably to cheap to pay for apps and doesn't think developers need to be rewareded for their efforts.


    If companies can track where the hits are coming from and they don't see any benefit of paying webos developers to use their ads because everyone is blocking them on their phones, then why would they continue to pay the developer? And in turn that would push the developer to develop a free but very limited trial and then the real paid app. Or a trial with an expiration.
    Spoken like a true D-bag. If you want ad's from your beloved "COMPANIES" selling tampons and pharmaceutical drugs for your children to become complete idiots then more power to you. Its just not my cup of tea.
    Je fais ce que je veux avec mes cheveux!!! Sprint: Pre+ 2.1
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by orizzle View Post
    Spoken like a true D-bag. If you want ad's from your beloved "COMPANIES" selling tampons and pharmaceutical drugs for your children to become complete idiots then more power to you. Its just not my cup of tea.
    But you'll download the app anyway.........

    You just proved my point. Thanks!
    WOG Dev - WebOS Group http://www.WebOSGroup.com
    PMP Dev - http://www.PimpMyPre.com
    Apps: WOG O.S.K., WOG Card Keeper, WOG Glowstick, WOG Kid Protect, PreLoad, PimpMySounds
  16. orizzle's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpmypre View Post
    But you'll download the app anyway.........

    You just proved my point. Thanks!
    there is a thanks button bro
    Je fais ce que je veux avec mes cheveux!!! Sprint: Pre+ 2.1
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by orizzle View Post
    there is a thanks button bro
    I couldn't find the sarcastic thanks button - just the sincere one.
    but Thanks!
    WOG Dev - WebOS Group http://www.WebOSGroup.com
    PMP Dev - http://www.PimpMyPre.com
    Apps: WOG O.S.K., WOG Card Keeper, WOG Glowstick, WOG Kid Protect, PreLoad, PimpMySounds
  18. #58  
    I wanna make this perfectly clear, the ad blocking format used by the patch is not new. Hardly, it's been used with multiple operating systems over years, most notably, on the iPhone. After years of this ad-blocking method being known, and other methods existing (Adblocker web browser extensions, adbocker software, etc.) at this point, people with ads in their software should expect a % of users to already be blocking this ads. It's not like the weboS is pioneering the feild of ad-blocking, lol.

    I would argue that it's the users choice which apps they download and which they don't. At the same time, no one is forcing the ad blocker onto anyone's device.

    I myself don't have any ad-supported software on my device and purely use the ad-blocker for websites (as it does increase load time without the additional ads).
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  19. #59  
    I think if developers want to use adds, it would be cooler to have some sort of interactive amnd atractive adds like the new adds for iphone. This way the user would tap on it just to see the coolness of it and devs would get more money
  20. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #60  
    the way I see it is if you install the patch chances are you are someone that will never want or would click on the ad anyone so who cares.
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