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  1.    #1  
    UnixPsycho and the rest of the #webos internals team have kindly spent an awful lot of time working with me to get a new kernel compiled. This is very, very alpha test bleeding edge and as such, you must know how to boot your kernel from an on-PC ramdisk (details at Research Pre Boot Process - WebOS Internals regarding bootie recover and novacom boot mem). The advantage of doing it this way is the kernel boot is a one-shot deal - next time you hard reboot, you reboot to the on-disk kernel.

    This kernel offers:

    * 800MHz maximum frequency
    * Pre-empt enabled
    * ondemand CPU scaler
    * noop IO scheduler
    * Debugging code removed

    In particular, pre-empt is one of the holy grails as it allows the next step of a realtime kernel using the -rt patches.

    In order to use this I would strongly recommend you use some of my tuning settings (see posts passim) or you are likely to crash during boot. In particular, disable anything that writes to disk, with syslog being the prime offender.

    phil_bw has generously agreed to temporarily host both the kernel itself and a demo video I quickly put together to give a quick overview of how things run. I was careful to make the launcher scroll up and down to demonstrate (a) the speed, and (b) cpufreq scaling artifacts.

    [[Update from Dieter with apologies to Steve for butting in: The below links are for VERY VERY experienced developers only. If you have the faintest doubt about whether or not you fit into this category, you don't. CF this post later in the thread.]]

    Video:http://sbromwich.cf3n.com/800mhzfreqscalenoop.avi
    Raw kernel: http://sbromwich.cf3n.com/uImage.preempt.cpufreq
    Hosting page: http://sbromwich.cf3n.com/

    And to forestall some questions:

    * No, I will not make an ipk of this file.
    * No, I will not upload this to the preware feed.
    * No, Palm do not know about this but if they did, would probably not approve.
    * Yes, it is faster.
    * Yes, it is a genuine video.
    * Yes, that *is* sarcasm.

    Cheers, Steve
    Last edited by sbromwich; 04/07/2010 at 10:35 PM. Reason: update url to the right one
  2. samid's Avatar
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    #2  
    video is down
  3. #3  
    Sounds interesting, but I can't get the video to stream or download.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by K4p741nkrunch View Post
    Sounds interesting, but I can't get the video to stream or download.
    You may need to load the codec. I used mencoder under Linux with the following settings to encode it:

    -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:mbd=1:vbitrate=150

    mplayer should play it fine. I have not used Windows since 1995 so if it is a Windows issue not having the codec you are on your own.

    The files are listed individually at 20100407 - sbromwich - pre kernel and video .

    Cheers, Steve
  5. philbw's Avatar
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    #5  
    Video files had an upload problem originally. All should be fine now and should play fine on Windows.

    - Phil -
    aka phil_bw
  6. #6  
    any reason one couldn't just post the video to youtube?
  7. #7  
    when u say yes it is faster, what do u meen, faster compared to what? i have the 800 ipk installed and my pre seems faster. any advantage to your patch? thanks
  8. ollo's Avatar
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    2 Posts
    #8  
    Hey sbromwich, any chance to use the conservative governor instead of ondemand? Should allow even more battery saving, no?

    Thanks, ollo
  9. #9  
    I too feel like this is very unsafe without controlled private alpha testing by those who understand the complexity of what is going on.
    MatterOfFactJack
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by ericizzy1 View Post
    when u say yes it is faster, what do u meen, faster compared to what? i have the 800 ipk installed and my pre seems faster. any advantage to your patch? thanks
    This is not a patch, it is an experimental kernel suitable for kernel developers to use in a collaborative discussion.

    If you want to know the speed, then you should gather the skills and knowledge to participate in the kernel development and test it. If you don't know how to do that, then this thread is not for you, because this is not an end-user installable item.

    This is a kernel technical discussion thread, not a thread with end-user installable items. It is in the development forum, not in the applications or patches forum.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 04/08/2010 at 05:22 AM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by jack87 View Post
    I too feel like this is very unsafe without controlled private alpha testing by those who understand the complexity of what is going on.
    This is not a thread where an installable item is being provided to end users. This is a technical kernel discussion thread.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 04/08/2010 at 05:24 AM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ollo View Post
    Hey sbromwich, any chance to use the conservative governor instead of ondemand? Should allow even more battery saving, no?

    Thanks, ollo
    These things can be counter-intuitive. With leaky 65nm process characteristics, it is often better to run faster and stop earlier, so you can shut off the voltage domain completely and save the leakage current.

    Palm have chosen cpuidle as their main power control mechanism, rather than cpufreq, for this reason (according to discussion with Palm engineers in the IRC channel the other day).

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  13. #13  
    Steve: Just a reminder that the source needs to be somewhere for GPL

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by ollo View Post
    Hey sbromwich, any chance to use the conservative governor instead of ondemand? Should allow even more battery saving, no?

    Thanks, ollo
    No, it won't. I have already covered the reason why not in another post. The specific reason is contained in the phrase "race to idle" if you want to research it yourself on google.

    Cheers, Steve
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Steve: Just a reminder that the source needs to be somewhere for GPL

    -- Rod
    Good point, thanks for calling me out on that Rod.

    Again, deliberately made difficult with diff done wrong, here is the relevant snippet that unixpsycho cleverly found to get preempt going:

    itssab@itssab-aspire:/srv/preware/build/hardware/uber-kernel-pre/src-1.4.0-0/linux-2.6.24/include/linux$ diff vermagic.h vermagic.h.orig
    11c11
    < #define MODULE_VERMAGIC_PREEMPT ""
    ---
    > #define MODULE_VERMAGIC_PREEMPT "preempt "
    itssab@itssab-aspire:/srv/preware/build/hardware/uber-kernel-pre/src-1.4.0-0/linux-2.6.24/include/linux$

    Kernel .config is at http://www.fop.ns.ca/pre/config_sbro...ta_preempt_win

    (And not, you're still not sucking me in for a git account... ;-) )

    Cheers, Steve
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    any reason one couldn't just post the video to youtube?
    No, go for it. That video is free content, I disclaim all copyright to it. Thanks for offering to do the legwork.

    Cheers, Steve
  17. #17  
    I for one, WANT this thread to emerge.

    keep up the good work @sbromwich, I fully support you and will be testing out your kernals shortly.

    webOs is an open platform, and as already mentioned: user risk is at play

    I am all for an open public testing where user's share their data as a collborative force and build upon it, rather than holding private testing

    and in my opinion, excel spreadsheets are the exact thing as communicating on a public message board anyway.
  18. #18  
    i stumbled upon this thread because i always check the "new posts" link. others will most likely will do the same. having read through the arguments from both sides, i think that there might be an amicable solution.

    paraphrasing a bit here, it appears that caj2008 is concerned about the ease of access and the safety concerns, while rwhitby is concerned about the lack of public visibility and collaboration if discussions happen behind closed doors.

    so, if I may humbly suggest a solution: why not continue public discussion, but just not make the download publicly accessible to just anyone? it is easy enough for anyone interested in getting a d/l to contact any of you on here where you can point them to a d/l source. this way, public discourse can still happen, and danger to the average precentraller like myself would me avoided.

    i am in awe and am super appreciative of all the work that developers like those on this thread have done to push this platform, and would really hate to see something like this derail the good will of all involved.
  19. #19  
    @un_designer there's no point in a private link.

    if a person doesn't know what to do with the code, he or she cannot load it via quickinstall anyway (caj's method)

    it's fine the way it is now
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    1) Oh I don't understand this i won't play with it.
    2) Not sure about it but I'll give it a shot. They brick his/her phone and blames someone else. Goes to cell phone saying it's not working and that they need a new one of course it won't work so provider warranties it and when Palm gets it back (am assuming here) they possibly find out this is what caused it and get upset at dev or carrier for not checking better.Relations could be damaged
    3) Guys gives it a shot and brick phone but can fix it himself (possible)
    None of those scenarios are possible with the item in this thread. For an item that is in the form of a cut and paste script or an ipkg file, I 100% agree with you. The item in this thread is intentionally not in such a form.

    4) Likes the idea of this and with his handy dandy internet finds out just enough info to attempt this (I did a search myself and within a few min found almost all the articles i need to attempt it)
    By nature of doing that search, you are already in the top 0.0001% of users with regard to this issue. And you will have already seen at least 2 different warnings. Therefore you are taking personal responsibility for your actions. If the phone breaks, the owner gets to keep both pieces, and the owner most certainly does not try and fraudulently do a warranty or insurance claim.

    5) *nix god and installs easily. love or hates the new kernal
    ... and hopefully joins in the technical discussion. Which I hope we can get back to one day.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 04/08/2010 at 09:14 AM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
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