Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23
  1. samid's Avatar
    Posts
    194 Posts
    Global Posts
    211 Global Posts
       #1  
    Did palm just do the same thing apple did a few years back? Apple started with web apps and then switched to C+. this is basically what palm has done. Why not skip all the trial an error and just copy apple at this point?? I love palm, but why not learn from everyone else and enhance what they have.
  2. #2  
    Not really. Apple abandoned web technologies altogether, mostly because their "web apps" are much more limited than Mojo apps. Palm is sticking with Mojo apps. An app can be fully Mojo, fully PDK, or a combination of both, depending on what is necessary. I think we'll still see a bunch of apps that are mostly Mojo. There's a lot of things that you just don't need deeper access for.

    The only thing that might give us more PDK apps than Mojo apps is that it'll be easier for developers to port iPhone stuff... not that it's actually necessary.
  3. #3  
    There is no comparison between the apple and palm application migration. Apple's "web apps" were actually rich web pages, accessed through the browser, living on the web. There was no on device data other than cookies, no integration or awareness between apps, and no awareness of the device itself. Of course they dumped this model when they added support for objective C, it was extremely limited.

    Palm on the other hand provides device level access to functionality via their programming language of choice, just like every other smart phone, it just so happens that the language of choice is javascript, html, and css (languages that many, many developers know). This is happening on board the device, not across the web as apple did. The OS functions like a portable localhost web server, thus the name webOS. This allows it smooth integration with the rest of the web.

    Adding a plugin framework for flash, C, and C++ is consistent with this model of web technology. Just as you can have a website that is entirely flash or java on the web, you can now have an entire webOS app that is flash or C. Or you can have a mix of both html and C.

    The only reason's to use Flash or C are the same reasons you would use other technologies on the web. 1. animation, it is still hard to do good looking moving stuff in javascript, 2. you already have stuff you can port over quickly, 3. you know one technology already and don't want to learn another, 4. power, javascript is still not known for it's powerful, quick computation of complex algorithms

    So, no. There is no similarity between what Apple has done and what Palm has done. Apple's attempts at "web apps" were a stop gap, a way to appease developers while they got the "real" environment up and running.

    Palm's approach is innovative and new, and much more flexible. As time goes on they will be able to add plug ins for a wide variety of technologies, like java, and maybe even PHP, JSP, etc. allowing anyone to play, not just those who own a Mac and want to learn an Apple version of C as you see on the iPhone.
    Last edited by japomani; 01/08/2010 at 08:26 AM.
    Palm 1000 > Palm Pro > Palm III > Palm IIIe X 3 > Palm IIIc > Palm TT > HTC Wizard > HTC Blue Angel > Palm TX > Zier 31 > Palm T3 > Palm Pre > FrankenPre 2 > TouchPad/Droid/Ubuntu > TP/ICS
  4. Queueyou's Avatar
    Posts
    80 Posts
    Global Posts
    126 Global Posts
    #4  
    Not to mention, "Objective C" is apple's own special kind of C, it's not the industry standard. C/C++ however are the standards, so it will be much more open to many more developers. Basically, they don't have to learn to do things in a different dialect than they are used to.
  5. ozziegt's Avatar
    Posts
    49 Posts
    Global Posts
    81 Global Posts
    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Queueyou View Post
    Not to mention, "Objective C" is apple's own special kind of C, it's not the industry standard. C/C++ however are the standards, so it will be much more open to many more developers. Basically, they don't have to learn to do things in a different dialect than they are used to.
    Not only that, but you don't have to own a mac to develop on it. Another big loss there for Apple.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Queueyou View Post
    Not to mention, "Objective C" is apple's own special kind of C, it's not the industry standard. C/C++ however are the standards, so it will be much more open to many more developers. Basically, they don't have to learn to do things in a different dialect than they are used to.
    Not true at all. Objective C was not developed by Apple and its use is not limited to Apple. The gcc compiler that is part of the PDK can compile Objective C. Objective C was developed around the same time as C++ and took a more Smalltalk oriented approach to extended C to support OO than C++ did. The strongly typed C++ approach pretty much won the argument though. Java and C# take more of a hybrid approach.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by japomani View Post
    Palm's approach is innovative and new, and much more flexible. As time goes on they will be able to add plug ins for a wide variety of technologies, like java, and maybe even PHP, JSP, etc. allowing anyone to play, not just those who own a Mac and want to learn an Apple version of C as you see on the iPhone.
    Apple requires a Mac to use the iPhone SDK because they are in the business of selling Macs. Objective C is not Apple's version of C.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by japomani View Post
    So, no. There is no similarity between what Apple has done and what Palm has done. Apple's attempts at "web apps" were a stop gap, a way to appease developers while they got the "real" environment up and running.
    In that respect, Palm's approach seems very similar.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Yes, but you do have to have a Palm in order to develop for webOS which is kind of a big loss for Palm given its market share right now. I can find plenty of developers who own Macs and iPhones but precious few that own Palms.
    To some degree. They DO have to greatly improve the emulator. What I don't get is why they haven't. Adding sound and video really isn't that complex, especially if they leverage the open source developers. They could make the emulator have camera capabilities by using webcams (and let open source developers work on versions for their OS, so you can install the right one). And audio's not that hard either - whether recording or listening. Also, they could have made "fake" phone calls just like skype does for testing purposes and even app catalogue testing with a small web server working on your workstation that's accessible from the emulator.

    Imagine if they had all that! They'd have a lot more developers as none of them would have to have a Palm device.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    In that respect, Palm's approach seems very similar.
    Except that Apple's approach dumped the web aspect and Palm's is just a natural extension, one that will continue to expand.
    Palm 1000 > Palm Pro > Palm III > Palm IIIe X 3 > Palm IIIc > Palm TT > HTC Wizard > HTC Blue Angel > Palm TX > Zier 31 > Palm T3 > Palm Pre > FrankenPre 2 > TouchPad/Droid/Ubuntu > TP/ICS
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by japomani View Post
    Except that Apple's approach dumped the web aspect and Palm's is just a natural extension, one that will continue to expand.
    You can still develop web apps for the iPhone. For some types of app, it's the optimal choice.
  12. #12  
    I just wished that there is/will be support for java development with the PDK, for us java guys that gave up on c a long time ago...
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by japomani View Post
    Palm's approach is innovative and new, and much more flexible. As time goes on they will be able to add plug ins for a wide variety of technologies, like java, and maybe even PHP, JSP, etc. allowing anyone to play, not just those who own a Mac and want to learn an Apple version of C as you see on the iPhone.
    OOoh. I'd love a perl plugin, please :-D
  14. #14  
    I'd love a Java plugin, too. But heck, what am I complaining about, C/C++ is more than I expected! And I love it..
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Objective C is not Apple's version of C.
    Actually, any more it is. NeXT bought the rights to Objective-C from Stepstone, which were acquired by Apple. Being the owners, they continue to maintain it. And, Im having a hard time finding any programs outside of the Apple universe that uses it

    But, like you said, GCC has a frontend for Object-C (as well as Java, oddly enough). I have to wonder if they're going to provide C/C++ APIs, but allow you to compile in whatever language GCC supports.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Apple requires a Mac to use the iPhone SDK because they are in the business of selling Macs.
    Wait, what? People are trying to develop apps for the iPhone, not a Mac. Apple is trying to use these apps to sell iPhones, not Macs. Surely, if they wanted to sell Macs they would require one with every iPhone...
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  17. samid's Avatar
    Posts
    194 Posts
    Global Posts
    211 Global Posts
       #17  
    almost forgot i started this thread. thanks for all the replies!
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    Wait, what? People are trying to develop apps for the iPhone, not a Mac. Apple is trying to use these apps to sell iPhones, not Macs. Surely, if they wanted to sell Macs they would require one with every iPhone...
    It only works on Intel macs actually:
    Apple - Downloads - Development Tools - iPhone SDK
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    Wait, what? People are trying to develop apps for the iPhone, not a Mac. Apple is trying to use these apps to sell iPhones, not Macs. Surely, if they wanted to sell Macs they would require one with every iPhone...
    Apple wants as many people to be as Apple centric as possible. Making Apple developers use Macs to develop the apps on seems entirely logical. It lowers their SDK development and support costs too.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    But, like you said, GCC has a frontend for Object-C (as well as Java, oddly enough). I have to wonder if they're going to provide C/C++ APIs, but allow you to compile in whatever language GCC supports.
    If they provide straight C apis, I don't see how they could stop you using Objective-C or why they would want to. It makes porting iPhone apps much easier.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions