webOS and widgets UI

japomani · 11/14/2009, 07:11 PM

As I have read through the forums and followed the android and winmo progress, there seems to be a group of people out there who really like widgets. At first I didn't get it, but one comment helped me see the value, they said something like "I want widgets because I don't want to start an app just to check the weather"

I got to thinking about it, there are things I would like to check without starting an app: the weather, stocks, the date, time, upcoming appts. and tasks, etc. These all fit into the category of micro data.

I think it would be interesting to discuss ways to approach adding widgets to webOS in this thread.

Here are two ideas:

1. The card view prevents placing widgets on the desk top, perhaps then they can be put in to a slide up window, similar to the launcher icons.

2. Maybe the card view can be pushed up to reveal a widget area

3. Maybe the card area can be very small in the quick launch area, freeing up the desktop area for widgets

What ideas do you have, are these ideas feasible as patches?

MaxLOL · 11/14/2009, 07:14 PM

It sounds like you want an android device. You should check out this forum: http://www.androidcentral.com/

TIWizard · 11/14/2009, 07:16 PM

It would be really cool to be able to press the center button when you are in card view to hide the cards and display a widget "desktop"...

xioq · 11/14/2009, 07:21 PM

The minimized states of the Cards are almost like Widgets themselves, aren't they? I have not tried this myself, but maybe developers can use the "blur" event to change the actual view to a "minimized" version when the user enters the Card overview.

japomani · 11/14/2009, 07:34 PM

No, I am not interested in an Android. I have been using a palm since my first Palm 1000 -> Palm Pro, then a few Palm IIIs including a couple of IIIe and a IIIc, a TT, a T3 and a TX. However, for a couple of years in there I used a HTC Blue Angle which was the same form factor as the Pre (vertical sliding keyboard, phone) but with a larger screen.

I can see that there are different metaphors for organizing a UI and the Pre has a good one with the cards. However, for those looking to get quick information at a glance, Pre doesn't really do a good job of it.

The folks over at www[period]precentral[period]net[forwardslash]homebrew-apps[forwardslash]activecard-2-beta-3-day-preview (sorry for the link, I can't post links) are giving it a go, but I find it a bit clumsy still, wadding it all up in a card. Maybe they will come up with something good.

I want to try to stimulate the great minds in this community to see if there is a way we can put "Pre" special sauce on the idea of "quick" data and come up with a way to make this work in the card metaphor.

Any thoughts?

xioq · 11/14/2009, 07:41 PM

Hi, me again, I just tested it quickly, and it is indeed possible to change the view of an app on a minimize event (using nothing but Mojo SDK). Pretty simple actually, using the stageDeactive there's also a stageActivate event of course. You could use these to change the view of your App when you enter or exit Card view.

So for example a weather widget could just look very simple (sun icon, how many degrees and that's it for example) in minimized Card view but more detailed in the actual App. Now it's probably not ment for this, but it does work. (tested with my own 'debug' app in 1.3.1 emulator)

Code:

Mojo.Event.listen(this.controller.document, Mojo.Event.stageDeactivate, this.yourDeactiveMethod.bind(this));

// and in your method simply push the scene you want to show

Wonder if people are actually already doing something like this, it seems like a nice feature to have in your application if you ask me. A quick / basic summary of what's going on in your app when you are in card view. It's no widget, but the idea is nice, no?

japomani · 11/14/2009, 07:56 PM

That is a very interesting idea. Cards can be rearranged in minimized view so you could place "widget" cards to the front of the list together, then swipe through them to see what you want. They are still live so data would be up to date. Perhaps one app could spawn a configurable "starburst" of widget apps when activated.

Are there other ways of doing this?

japomani · 11/14/2009, 08:00 PM

One weakness of this would be the multiplication of cards. I don't usually have more than 3 or so open at a time, but people who use more might find it onerous. Also, you could only see one "widget" at a time.

japomani · 11/14/2009, 08:07 PM

However, one card is big enough to display 2 or 3 "information chunks" at a time

Also, the developer would have to adjust the css so that the text was large enough to read.

psvillars · 11/14/2009, 08:14 PM

it'd be cool if maybe designate the top half or top 2/3 of the desktop area for widgets and the use the rest for card view with smaller cards and maybe use the center to launch the card view and auto hide the launcher or just use the drag feature for the launcher not that I want webos to emulate android but it widgets would increase functionality overall

xioq · 11/14/2009, 08:34 PM

Personally I wouldn't want to see more than just 1 card at a time, it is nice and peaceful like that. I just liked the idea of having a quick overview of the information in the Application. So that was the only contribution I have for this thread, & best of all it's plausible with the normal Mojo SDK.

davis.rob · 11/14/2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japomani

What ideas do you have, are these ideas feasible as patches?

I think just having a multi-purpose card would handle this nicely. You open the card and just leave it open, could have options to display or hide "widgets" as the user desired, and no real limit on size as the card can scroll to whatever length is necessary. As long a it's properly coded to not drain your battery, I don't see the problem in just having this open all the time.

There's at least one app that has already tried this (not too successfully based on the reviews), but it's not really even that difficult.

japomani · 11/14/2009, 09:18 PM

I took a closer look at android widgets, I don't like the look of them, they appear cluttered. In general you can fit about 4 widgets on a screen at once.

The pre has a shorter screen and the bottom part is taken by the quick launcher. I thought the quick launcher was cluttered looking so I used a patch to get rid of it (I rely on the wave to quick launch). Now there is more space below the cards that could be used.

So the idea I like best creating a "widget" app that allows you to select 2 or 3 widgets to show on a card, call it a "quick card" , the app can allow you to open more than one widget card (like the email app or browser app) so you always have your widgets available. Open the api for the widget app up so other people can make widgets for it.

Add an option to is get rid of the quick launcher and making the cards taller in minimize mode (we know they can change size because the pixi cards are shorter) so more apps can fit on one card. This should be pretty doable.

Taurec · 11/15/2009, 04:19 AM

I really really like the idea.
Since there is a Patch for adding new Pages to the Launcher why not using this for creating black Launcher Pages and then put Widges on those pages?

japomani · 11/15/2009, 08:08 AM

another option is making an widget app that lets you swipe side to side like the photo app with widgets on each swiped page

alioooop · 11/15/2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japomani

another option is making an widget app that lets you swipe side to side like the photo app with widgets on each swiped page

I would love this

dustysa4 · 11/15/2009, 11:08 AM

Until this happens you all can use iGoogle. I know it's kinda lame, but it kills a few birds with one stone for me.

ToddK · 11/15/2009, 11:54 AM

I really like the idea of ActiveCard and ActiveHomeScreen, and would love the option of hiding open cards, and having an "agenda" or "today" type widget-based screen open on the home wallpaper, providing a quick view of weather, upcoming events, news headlines, twitter and/or facebook friend status updates, etc. ... and the feature could use the center button to toggle the "hide cards/show widgets" feature. (...as it flashes to notify you the widgets have updated..) ;-)

DGmedic · 11/15/2009, 01:35 PM

What about a clock/weather background behind the cards similar to HTCs sense UI main clock/weather widget,

DrewPre · 11/15/2009, 04:39 PM

Sounds to me that a "Task Manager" of sorts is needed that is an APP but does't have a car associated with it, at least not a visible one, and resides only in the notification area and when tapped only then does a card show up with a list of running apps and the ability to open them with a tap or close them with a swipe, like one would do an email.

Just some ideas.

11/14/2009, 07:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
japomani Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 314 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 7 Thanked 47 Times in 28 Posts	webOS and widgets UI As I have read through the forums and followed the android and winmo progress, there seems to be a group of people out there who really like widgets. At first I didn't get it, but one comment helped me see the value, they said something like "I want widgets because I don't want to start an app just to check the weather" I got to thinking about it, there are things I would like to check without starting an app: the weather, stocks, the date, time, upcoming appts. and tasks, etc. These all fit into the category of micro data. I think it would be interesting to discuss ways to approach adding widgets to webOS in this thread. Here are two ideas: 1. The card view prevents placing widgets on the desk top, perhaps then they can be put in to a slide up window, similar to the launcher icons. 2. Maybe the card view can be pushed up to reveal a widget area 3. Maybe the card area can be very small in the quick launch area, freeing up the desktop area for widgets What ideas do you have, are these ideas feasible as patches?
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 07:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
MaxLOL Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 650 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 91 Thanked 159 Times in 85 Posts	It sounds like you want an android device. You should check out this forum: http://www.androidcentral.com/
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 07:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
TIWizard Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USA Posts: 745 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 81 Thanked 218 Times in 75 Posts	It would be really cool to be able to press the center button when you are in card view to hide the cards and display a widget "desktop"... __________________ Sprint Palm Pre - WebOS 2.1 > Sprint HTC Arrive
	Liked by Thanked by cashen, Laxidasical

11/14/2009, 07:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
xioq Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: here, there, everywhere. Posts: 113 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 2 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	The minimized states of the Cards are almost like Widgets themselves, aren't they? I have not tried this myself, but maybe developers can use the "blur" event to change the actual view to a "minimized" version when the user enters the Card overview. __________________ My Palm History (in order): IIIe SE, m130, Tungsten\|T, m505, Tungsten\|T3, Zire 71, m505 (owned two different ones), Zire 72, Tungsten\|C, T\|X, Treo 650. After that I got a Apple iPhone 3G, Palm Pre (GSM), Google Nexus One.
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 07:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
japomani Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 314 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 7 Thanked 47 Times in 28 Posts	No, I am not interested in an Android. I have been using a palm since my first Palm 1000 -> Palm Pro, then a few Palm IIIs including a couple of IIIe and a IIIc, a TT, a T3 and a TX. However, for a couple of years in there I used a HTC Blue Angle which was the same form factor as the Pre (vertical sliding keyboard, phone) but with a larger screen. I can see that there are different metaphors for organizing a UI and the Pre has a good one with the cards. However, for those looking to get quick information at a glance, Pre doesn't really do a good job of it. The folks over at www[period]precentral[period]net[forwardslash]homebrew-apps[forwardslash]activecard-2-beta-3-day-preview (sorry for the link, I can't post links) are giving it a go, but I find it a bit clumsy still, wadding it all up in a card. Maybe they will come up with something good. I want to try to stimulate the great minds in this community to see if there is a way we can put "Pre" special sauce on the idea of "quick" data and come up with a way to make this work in the card metaphor. Any thoughts?
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 07:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
xioq Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: here, there, everywhere. Posts: 113 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 2 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	Hi, me again, I just tested it quickly, and it is indeed possible to change the view of an app on a minimize event (using nothing but Mojo SDK). Pretty simple actually, using the stageDeactive there's also a stageActivate event of course. You could use these to change the view of your App when you enter or exit Card view. So for example a weather widget could just look very simple (sun icon, how many degrees and that's it for example) in minimized Card view but more detailed in the actual App. Now it's probably not ment for this, but it does work. (tested with my own 'debug' app in 1.3.1 emulator) Code: Mojo.Event.listen(this.controller.document, Mojo.Event.stageDeactivate, this.yourDeactiveMethod.bind(this)); // and in your method simply push the scene you want to show Wonder if people are actually already doing something like this, it seems like a nice feature to have in your application if you ask me. A quick / basic summary of what's going on in your app when you are in card view. It's no widget, but the idea is nice, no? __________________ My Palm History (in order): IIIe SE, m130, Tungsten\|T, m505, Tungsten\|T3, Zire 71, m505 (owned two different ones), Zire 72, Tungsten\|C, T\|X, Treo 650. After that I got a Apple iPhone 3G, Palm Pre (GSM), Google Nexus One.
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 07:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
japomani Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 314 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 7 Thanked 47 Times in 28 Posts	That is a very interesting idea. Cards can be rearranged in minimized view so you could place "widget" cards to the front of the list together, then swipe through them to see what you want. They are still live so data would be up to date. Perhaps one app could spawn a configurable "starburst" of widget apps when activated. Are there other ways of doing this?
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 08:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
japomani Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 314 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 7 Thanked 47 Times in 28 Posts	One weakness of this would be the multiplication of cards. I don't usually have more than 3 or so open at a time, but people who use more might find it onerous. Also, you could only see one "widget" at a time.
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 08:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
japomani Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 314 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 7 Thanked 47 Times in 28 Posts	However, one card is big enough to display 2 or 3 "information chunks" at a time Also, the developer would have to adjust the css so that the text was large enough to read.
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 08:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
psvillars Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 83 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 5 Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts	it'd be cool if maybe designate the top half or top 2/3 of the desktop area for widgets and the use the rest for card view with smaller cards and maybe use the center to launch the card view and auto hide the launcher or just use the drag feature for the launcher not that I want webos to emulate android but it widgets would increase functionality overall
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 08:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
xioq Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: here, there, everywhere. Posts: 113 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 2 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	Personally I wouldn't want to see more than just 1 card at a time, it is nice and peaceful like that. I just liked the idea of having a quick overview of the information in the Application. So that was the only contribution I have for this thread, & best of all it's plausible with the normal Mojo SDK. __________________ My Palm History (in order): IIIe SE, m130, Tungsten\|T, m505, Tungsten\|T3, Zire 71, m505 (owned two different ones), Zire 72, Tungsten\|C, T\|X, Treo 650. After that I got a Apple iPhone 3G, Palm Pre (GSM), Google Nexus One.
	Liked by

11/14/2009, 09:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
japomani Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 314 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 7 Thanked 47 Times in 28 Posts	I took a closer look at android widgets, I don't like the look of them, they appear cluttered. In general you can fit about 4 widgets on a screen at once. The pre has a shorter screen and the bottom part is taken by the quick launcher. I thought the quick launcher was cluttered looking so I used a patch to get rid of it (I rely on the wave to quick launch). Now there is more space below the cards that could be used. So the idea I like best creating a "widget" app that allows you to select 2 or 3 widgets to show on a card, call it a "quick card" , the app can allow you to open more than one widget card (like the email app or browser app) so you always have your widgets available. Open the api for the widget app up so other people can make widgets for it. Add an option to is get rid of the quick launcher and making the cards taller in minimize mode (we know they can change size because the pixi cards are shorter) so more apps can fit on one card. This should be pretty doable.
	Liked by

11/15/2009, 04:19 AM	#14 (permalink)
Taurec Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 443 Likes Received: 28 Thanks: 49 Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts	I really really like the idea. Since there is a Patch for adding new Pages to the Launcher why not using this for creating black Launcher Pages and then put Widges on those pages?
	Liked by Thanked By: alhii303

11/15/2009, 08:08 AM	#15 (permalink)
japomani Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 314 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 7 Thanked 47 Times in 28 Posts	swiping another option is making an widget app that lets you swipe side to side like the photo app with widgets on each swiped page
	Liked by

11/15/2009, 11:08 AM	#17 (permalink)
dustysa4 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 28 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Until this happens you all can use iGoogle. I know it's kinda lame, but it kills a few birds with one stone for me.
	Liked by

11/15/2009, 11:54 AM	#18 (permalink)
ToddK Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cape Cod Posts: 664 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 539 Thanked 104 Times in 71 Posts	I really like the idea of ActiveCard and ActiveHomeScreen, and would love the option of hiding open cards, and having an "agenda" or "today" type widget-based screen open on the home wallpaper, providing a quick view of weather, upcoming events, news headlines, twitter and/or facebook friend status updates, etc. ... and the feature could use the center button to toggle the "hide cards/show widgets" feature. (...as it flashes to notify you the widgets have updated..) ;-)
	Liked by

11/15/2009, 01:35 PM	#19 (permalink)
DGmedic Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What about a clock/weather background behind the cards similar to HTCs sense UI main clock/weather widget,
	Liked by

11/15/2009, 04:39 PM	#20 (permalink)
DrewPre Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The HARD Streets of Alpharetta, GA Posts: 829 Likes Received: 2 Thanks: 44 Thanked 176 Times in 92 Posts	Sounds to me that a "Task Manager" of sorts is needed that is an APP but does't have a car associated with it, at least not a visible one, and resides only in the notification area and when tapped only then does a card show up with a list of running apps and the ability to open them with a tap or close them with a swipe, like one would do an email. Just some ideas.
	Liked by

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