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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by glorifiedg View Post
    First of all thank you very much for this wonderfull app!

    I've saw the print screen of this app and a question poped in my head: I think it would be nice to backup patches and apps separately because many of us would like to backup apps and not patches so we can install them from scratch.
    I second this notion, it'd be nice to take individual backups of each item if the user wants. I like the fact that the interface is grouped to keep like things together but a more advanced menu option that allows users to to choose what he/she wants to backup and would be an amazing. Its just a suggestion and.

    Kudo's to DrewPre for taking the initiative and executing dead on. I bow to your talent.
  2. #62  
    I have the front-end installed, did I miss the link to the service, or has it not been posted yet?

    Thanks for this, great work.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
  3. #63  
    I definitely have some suggestions for a premium version, but I'm excited to get the base version as well.

    If a premium version gets built, features I'd like would be a timer for an unassisted backup (daily, weekly, user-specified) and/or a mechanism where the app could tell when the Pre was connected to my computer and backup/offload automatically.

    But I'm more than satisfied with the App as proposed now.

    Thanks!
  4. #64  
    looking forward to this being up on feed. i was nuked by palm profile backup the other day so i have little faith in it now... I am stoked for your app though.
  5. #65  
    So after reading, in amazement of course (YOU ROCK!), I havent been able to get the Palm Backup to autobackup for the past few weeks now. I have to manually backup whenever I remember to do so, unless someone knows how to get the backup to reenable automatic backup.

    SO... where exactly do I get this new backup solution app.

    I dont see it in Preware yet, and I saw the zip file, but no ipk yet. Is this ok for nonrooted Pres to install yet?

    Thanks!
  6. ssrjazz's Avatar
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    #66  
    DrewPre,

    Are you just making a tarball of particular files/folders on the filesystem, thereby, copying the database files and other files themselves, or are you actually extracting data from database files? My guess, based on the instructions for restoring data, is it's the former, not the latter.

    My fear is people will not understand that this app is only going to work for those who need to restore to the same version of WebOS as the backup was made with.

    The fields within the palm database files can (and have) and likely will change between versions of WebOS as they introduce more functionality and support for more email/im/calendar services.

    For example:

    A user running v1.2.1 uses this utility to back up their Pre. User then updates to 1.3.1 and for whatever reason, needs to do a complete/partial erase. If that person then restores that v1.2.1 backup on v1.3.1 then their phone is going to have problems. Problems ranging from new functionality being missing to just completely screwing things up on the phone.

    Perhaps a better approach would be to deal with the databases themselves via some utility to extract the data and be able to import it back in, knowing the differences between os version's databases and being able to handle them properly.

    Not knocking what you've done at all, just food for thought here.
  7. rposa's Avatar
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    #67  
    Not sure that even that will work, ssrjazz. I have a PalmDatabase.db3 file that I grabbed from my 1.3.1 Pre before I exhanged it. I used SQLite Browser and exported the DB to SQL files, then tried to use the command line SQLITE3 PalmDatabase.db3 < exported command, to restore. A lot of things came in, but some did not because of schema differences..

    On the other hand, there IS a Perl based script that will take the PalmDatabase.db3 and export it to a CSV that you can upload to google..

    PalmDatabase.db3 File - WebOS Internals
  8. DrewPre's Avatar
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       #68  
    My fear is people will not understand that this app is only going to work for those who need to restore to the same version of WebOS as the backup was made with
    This is not entirely true. I have successfully restored a 1.2.1 backup from my personal Pre to a 1.3.1 emulators over a dozen times now and have not have any problem with retaining applications and phone data including txt conversations, tasks, phone logs etc. Yes, an emulator is not quite the same but I did perform a restore of my Pre running 1.3.1 successfully as well right before I downgraded back to 1.2.0. I simply cannot live without the Wifi tethering.

    Now! Will that be true for future updates? Who knows. I am guessing that will largely depend on the version of SQLite the Pre uses. Last I checked it was at 3.14. However, optware provides 3.18 or something. So should future upgrades be problematic, this app could be made dependant upon an SQLite upgrade from optware instantly making it backward compatible with any update from Palm which is a few steps behind in SQL versions. Besides, a lot of apps are already made dependant on GNU Tar for example, which is already on the webosinternals feed.

    But, for now tho, the problem isn't with interversion backup/restores it's with the services and the exact location of databases cookies and depot for each individual app. That and the patches. I am leaning toward abandoning patches altogether though. It may still be an option if you're restoring to the same version but it seems like ever single one fails on restore to a new webos version.

    Yes, I am tarballing the databases. I may do table extraction at a later time...namely for contact migration to Gmail, but for right now that is the avenue I am taking for backups.
    Last edited by DrewPre; 11/18/2009 at 01:48 PM.
  9. DrewPre's Avatar
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       #69  
    Code:
    lq(root@qemux86)-(02:41:53)->
    mq(~)--> # ipkg list_installed | grep sqlite                                                                                                                                     
    libsqlite - 3.6.14.2-r1 - 
    sqlite-service - 1.0-7 - 
    sqlite3 - 3.6.14.2-r1 - 
    sqlite3-palm-extension - 1.0-20 - 
    sqlitejdbc - v053-4 - 
    
    lq(root@qemux86)-(02:42:07)->
    mq(~)--> # ipkg-opt list | grep sqlite                                                                                                                                           
    perl-dbd-sqlite - 1.14-1 - The Perl Database Driver for SQLITE.
    py24-sqlite - 2.4.1-1 - pysqlite is an interface to the SQLite database server for Python. It aims to be fully compliant with Python database API versi
    sqlite - 3.6.20-1 - SQLite is a small C library that implements a self-contained, embeddable, zero-configuration SQL database engine.
    sqlite2 - 2.8.17-3 - SQLite is a small C library that implements a self-contained, embeddable, zero-configuration SQL database engine.
    yea, the Pre is a few versions behind on SQLite.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrewPre View Post
    Now! Will that be true for future updates? Who knows. I am guessing that will largely depend on the version of SQLite the Pre uses. Last I checked it was at 3.14. However, optware provides 3.18 or something. So should future upgrades be problematic, this app could be made dependant upon an SQLite upgrade from optware instantly making it backward compatible with any update from Palm which is a few steps behind in SQL versions. Besides, a lot of apps are already made dependant on GNU Tar for example, which is already on the webosinternals feed.
    That will depend on whether or not Palm changes the database schema that they are using to store the data. They could keep the version of SQLite the same, but send out an update that drastically changes the table layouts, names, etc. and the backups would be incompatible.
  11. DrewPre's Avatar
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       #71  
    As for the questions about when this will be made available.....

    I just finished the restore piece of the app, just now.

    Also, I added a security enhancement at the advice of one of our community members that broke the service yesterday. I fixed it this morning, tho and have to add some more features to it in order to support the restore functions.

    I am going to forward the fixed service and application to rwhitby for upload to the webosinternals feed and I guess he is going to see abot putting it on Preware also.

    Either way, I'll post it here also. No later thank tomorrow afternoon at the latest. [crosses fingers]
  12. DrewPre's Avatar
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       #72  
    hrminer, wouldn't that break a lot of their apps...not to mention half [or more] of the apps in the app catalog?
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    #73  
    After doing some research with some guys from the irc we have concluded replacing the whole palmdatabase.db3 poses an issue.. hit up the irc drew.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by atlanta View Post
    After doing some research with some guys from the irc we have concluded replacing the whole palmdatabase.db3 poses an issue.. hit up the irc drew.
    We can use sqlite3 to dump the database to text, then modify the text if necessary using linux command line utilities, then load whatever makes sense back into the new database with the new schema.

    It's not a show-stopper, just a bit of extra work.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
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  15. ssrjazz's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by atlanta
    After doing some research with some guys from the irc we have concluded replacing the whole palmdatabase.db3 poses an issue.. hit up the irc drew.
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    We can use sqlite3 to dump the database to text, then modify the text if necessary using linux command line utilities, then load whatever makes sense back into the new database with the new schema.

    It's not a show-stopper, just a bit of extra work.

    Yeah, see this is one of the things I was getting at. Even doing a restore to the same webos version can be an issue. My manual attempt at backing up/restoring that file in particular (palmdatabase.db3) is problematic. Contacts, contact pictures, txts, emails, attachements, etc are likely linked by a particular field across the tables (and possibly across database files elsewhere). When you erase the phone and your profile is restored and your account(s) resync, all of that is different and when you restore that particular old db file over the top of the new one...well, things just don't match up anymore. I had contacts with the wrong pictures, or none at all , emails that were there, but not, etc. Across WebOS versions, the issues can be even worse. Since you're likely backing up lots more than just that file, you may be restoring other db files that are involved such that everything points to the right places. Still doesn't mean that you aren't missing out on certain functionality. If there are new fields for, say, Yahoo!, that are in v1.3.1 that aren't in v1.2.1 - there may be issues if someone tries to add a Yahoo! account. There may not be, I'm not as familiar with the db hierarchy and schema as I'd like to be. My point is, tho, it's just not as simple as backing up a folder and putting it back later.

    Apps have their own databases in their own folders in /var/palm/data and those can be backed up. The caveat is that if you -only- restore those app database folders, the first time you start up an app after having done an erase of the phone it will create a new database with a completely different name than the old one. You can then copy the old db over the new one and that's usually ok. Since the app whose database is restoring doesn't know that it has a db out there (probably a field/table in one of the palm db's) it creates one. If one knew which palm db to edit you could update that program's entry to point to your restored db. - Again, just not as simple as just copying files back onto the Pre.

    If you guys can get it all worked out, it'll be a fantastic homebrew app for the Pre community. Sure would have saved me a LOT of time and trouble this past weekend. I'm rooting for ya!
  16. #76  
    Originally Posted by glorifiedg
    First of all thank you very much for this wonderfull app!

    I've saw the print screen of this app and a question poped in my head: I think it would be nice to backup patches and apps separately because many of us would like to backup apps and not patches so we can install them from scratch.
    Quote Originally Posted by FordP929 View Post
    I second this notion, it'd be nice to take individual backups of each item if the user wants. I like the fact that the interface is grouped to keep like things together but a more advanced menu option that allows users to to choose what he/she wants to backup and would be an amazing. Its just a suggestion and.

    Kudo's to DrewPre for taking the initiative and executing dead on. I bow to your talent.
    I agree %100 with this as well for the same reasons.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrewPre View Post
    hrminer, wouldn't that break a lot of their apps...not to mention half [or more] of the apps in the app catalog?
    Changing the db schema is usually driven by changes in the applications/service layers that access them. If they upgrade the software that uses a new layout and the restore program just drops in a database with the old layout, the app will break.
  18. mcotten's Avatar
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by FordP929 View Post
    I second this notion, it'd be nice to take individual backups of each item if the user wants. I like the fact that the interface is grouped to keep like things together but a more advanced menu option that allows users to to choose what he/she wants to backup and would be an amazing. Its just a suggestion and.

    Kudo's to DrewPre for taking the initiative and executing dead on. I bow to your talent.
    Yes, this is a lot of talent from a guy who doesn't know C or Java. For that matter it is a lot of talent for a guy who does...

    We have been asking for this for a while!

    Great work PreDrew!!! This has great potential beyond its current usage. Imagine adding a file browser to delete unwanted images or other files. Or even like a contacts editor to manipulate contacts in the backup state.

    By no means is this a feature request. Just expounding on the possibilities of what you have here and FordP929's earlier post!
    Last edited by mcotten; 11/18/2009 at 07:01 PM. Reason: grammar
    Motorola StarTAC-->Cassiopia E100 + Motorola i90-->Motorola i95-->Blackberry 7520-->Palm Treo 650-->HTC 6700(Apache)--> HTC 6800(Mogul)-->HTC 6850 (Touch Pro)-->Palm Pre
  19. DrewPre's Avatar
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       #79  
    Great work PreDrew!!! This has great potential beyond its current usage. Imagine adding a file browser to delete unwanted images or other files. Or even like a contacts editor to manipulate contacts in the backup state.
    Thanks, and fyi, ... Already have it.... just finished the restore function today. I created a list widget in the Restore UI that will list all available backups. Then if you want, swipe to delete! OR...... click an add button and navigate to a different backup not in the list.

    Of course this created a need for a labelling and logging in the backup piece. So more work there.

    Went ahead and started to try and implement SQL to keep track of the backups that have run, the ones that still need to run, whether they were full or incremental. Another goal is to get the scripts off the filesystem....as I learn more about SQL, if it's at all possibly I am gonna try and incorporate the script files into an sql databse. a script line per record and loop thru them? Maybe??? There'll be some security issues there as well I am sure.

    Anyway, this thing is taking on a life of it's own...but i keep chugging away!

    If I can catch up with Rod, i should have a working release in the next 10-15 hours.

    Getting some rest now tho.

    Cheers.
  20. DrewPre's Avatar
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       #80  
    oh and just bear with me....remember that thre is still a learning curve for me. I am making some mistakes that a vet prolly would't make.
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