Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 38 of 38
  1. rlopin's Avatar
    Posts
    441 Posts
    Global Posts
    443 Global Posts
       #21  
    The people in these forums are a self-selected audience of technical folks. You and I and the vast majority of folks here are not the norm. I know many other people who own a Pre (wife, several co-workers) who haven't got the slightest idea how they would go about obtaining pirated software. Nor do they seem to have the desire. In addition, this is a phone and people are even more wary of installing apps if they are not from a trusted source. As easy as it is for you and I to 'root' the Pre to get the installer and eventually Filecoaster on, it still scares away the average Joe/Jane. None of my friends/co-workers would let me do this on their behalf even after I'd shown them all the cool homebrew apps out of fear of messing up their phone. They will only put an app on their phone if it comes from the App Catalog.

    As the user base grows we will pass the tipping point and the platform will become a financially viable option for developers. This is especially true since the skill barrier is lower for developing apps on the Pre. Many more devs are familiar with JavaScript, HTML and CSS than are familiar with Objective-C. Sure, there is risk the platform doesn't grow as quickly as one would like, but that's a risk I believe a significant number of developers will be willing to take. Only time will tell.
    Last edited by rlopin; 08/24/2009 at 04:04 PM. Reason: corrected grammar
    Phones>Ericsson->iPaq->Treo700w>>PalmPre & TouchPad<<PC<-Amiga<-C64<-Vic20<-PET<Computers
  2. Smubeht's Avatar
    Posts
    187 Posts
    Global Posts
    189 Global Posts
    #22  
    Glad you brought up Price Elasticity. There are different demands for different items. Changing the price between the individual item is where demand can be seen. If I lower the price by $5 how many more people will buy it. What will be total revenue. Is it worth it? Etc.

    But the problem with your model is you are factoring that price is a measure of quality. It is not. Just because someone charges a high price for something does not mean it is of higher quality. It could simply be because the seller wants to price the item at that point. And they are by all means able to do so. A guy can make a fart app and sell it for $30. Maybe 1 guy buys it. Heck there was an iphone app with just a jewel in it or something for $1k. I believe some people actually bought it too initially. Does that make that app of higher quality then some of the awesome free apps for iphone or even the cheap apps? I don't believe so.

    If there is a good app for $30 for instance and it gets rated a 3.5. Meanwhile there is a $5 app that got rated 4. Does that mean that the $5 > $30 app? No. Because if the $30 app was $5 it may be a 4.5 or a 5. Price point changes the quality perception of the product.

    How do you know whether the reason an app gets a high rating or low rating is because of quality or simply price point? I think its hard to figure that out. a 99 cent app can get rated high simply because its useful and cheap as hell. a $30 app may be useful but rated low because people feel its not worth $30. Does that mean quality was low? No, it just means people did not feel it worth $30. How does it get reflected back? Through the rating and low purchase/download #s.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post
    As the user base grows we will pass the tipping point and the platform will become a financially viable option for developers. This is especially true since the skill barrier is lower for developing apps on the Pre. Many more devs are familiar with JavaScript, HTML and CSS than are familiar with Objective-C. Sure, there is risk the platform doesn't grow as quickly as one would like, but that's a risk I believe a significant number of developers will be willing to take. Only time will tell.
    It would be helpful if Palm would actually release sales numbers. I am not sure that lowering the "skill barrier" is going to give WebOS a larger catalog of apps than the iPhone but familarity with Objective-C does not seem to have been a problem for Apple. Experianced Java, C++ and Objective-C developers aren't going to find the prospect of rewriting their applications in Javacript appealing. It's much more expensive to do a total rewite than to port code to a new platform. The extremely weak debugging capabilities of Palm's SDK will also add to the cost of developing larger WebOS applications.

    There are certain types of applications that do lend themselves to the WebOS approach though such as a Weather apps or Netflix or Zipcar app. Clocks, stopwatches and simpler calculators are fairly easy to do as well. The real work is in making them look nice. The scientific calculator in the homebrew store looks great (and is open source). It could be used as the basis for an HP12C calculator.
  4. rlopin's Avatar
    Posts
    441 Posts
    Global Posts
    443 Global Posts
       #24  
    @ADGrant

    It would indeed be great if Palm released sales figures. They are a publicly traded company so eventually they will have to publish the figures.

    As for the premise that iPhone developers would not want to have to port their apps to JavaScript, that is probably true, but that is assuming the developer base is made up of iPhone developers. What I was speaking about was an untapped group of front-end client-side developers and some mid-tier folks working in the website development space who have not yet made the jump to the iPhone specifically because of the learning curve. Wish I had some real statistics on the size of this group but you have to believe Palm did their homework and felt this group was large enough to attract enough developers to the platform to justify the chosen tech stack.
    Last edited by rlopin; 08/25/2009 at 12:05 PM. Reason: added "@" notation
    Phones>Ericsson->iPaq->Treo700w>>PalmPre & TouchPad<<PC<-Amiga<-C64<-Vic20<-PET<Computers
  5. rlopin's Avatar
    Posts
    441 Posts
    Global Posts
    443 Global Posts
       #25  
    @Smubeht

    Price, utility/entertainment, and quality all affect the rating of an app. That means the rating effectively measures the value of an app. If we could separate the quality, utility and price attributes of an app, what percentage weighting do you believe each has in contributing to whether or not someone makes the purchase?

    This will differ from person to person. For me personally, here are my weightings...
    • Price - 10%
    • Quality - 30%
    • Utility/Entertainment Value - 60%


    I don’t like buggy apps or apps that do a poor job of managing their memory and power footprints on the Pre, but that is not the biggest factor for me. For me I have no issues throwing down, say $20 for an application if it is really useful. For example, the myTether app in the Homebrew catalog is in my opinion extremely valuable. I would have paid $35 for that (the donation amount was fixed by the developer at $10 -- a mistake in my opinion as I would have gladly given more).

    @All
    What are your weightings?
    Last edited by rlopin; 08/25/2009 at 12:04 PM. Reason: added "@" notations
    Phones>Ericsson->iPaq->Treo700w>>PalmPre & TouchPad<<PC<-Amiga<-C64<-Vic20<-PET<Computers
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post
    As for the premise that iPhone developers would not want to have to port their apps to JavaScript, that is probably true, but that is assuming the developer base is made up of iPhone developers. What I was speaking about was an untapped group of front-end client-side developers and some mid-tier folks working in the website development space who have not yet made the jump to the iPhone specifically because of the learning curve. Wish I had some real statistics on the size of this group but you have to believe Palm did their homework and felt this group was large enough to attract enough developers to the platform to justify the chosen tech stack.
    I wonder how many of these front end web developers are interested in writing mobile applications and what sorts of applications they will develop (other than the alternatives to websites that seem so popular such as Netfix, Zagat etc). In the mid-tier Java is a popular language so I would expect many developers from that background who were interested in developing mobile apps to be more interested in Android or perhaps the Blackberry OS.

    As for Palm's research, I beleive their choices were driven more by cost and time to market. A tech stack of pre-exisiting opensource components reduces both.
  7. rlopin's Avatar
    Posts
    441 Posts
    Global Posts
    443 Global Posts
       #27  
    @ADGrant

    I would figure that these types of developers would indeed gravitate towards mobile optimized versions of web sites -- that is certainly one class of apps that will be popular. Another class of apps that demonstrate real value are the mash-ups with local functionality enabled by Mojo. Developers that can dream up useful integration use cases with palm's native apps that leverage the Mojo APIs should allow them to get to market faster than the equivalent app on the iPhone, Android and Blackberry platforms.

    As for mid-tier Java folks you are correct in that many would probably prefer Android as it is more in line with their skill sets. If they believe Palm and WebOS will be more successful and perceive the learning curve to be shallower that might be enough to entice them to try out WebOS first. Of course the draw to the larger potential income an iPhone app has might steal them away. Right now though there is an opportunity to be a big fish in a small pond. They can establish a good reputation early on and find it easier to pick a type of app that is not already out there now on the Palm platform.

    I agree that Palm's tech stack was driven by cost and time to market (I even recall seeing a PowerPoint presentation from palm with those very bullet points), but the happy coincidence is that there is a large class of developers that are very experienced with web technologies and will no doubt find the stack attractive.
    Phones>Ericsson->iPaq->Treo700w>>PalmPre & TouchPad<<PC<-Amiga<-C64<-Vic20<-PET<Computers
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post
    @ADGrant

    As for mid-tier Java folks you are correct in that many would probably prefer Android as it is more in line with their skill sets. If they believe Palm and WebOS will be more successful and perceive the learning curve to be shallower that might be enough to entice them to try out WebOS first. Of course the draw to the larger potential income an iPhone app has might steal them away.
    If you are an experianced Java developer, the learning curve for WebOS is probably going to be a lot steeper, particularly if you are not an experianced Javascript developer. One problem with the SDK is syntax errors make it out to the emulator before being detected. The packaging app should be able to do a syntax check. Another problem it the primitive command line debugger. It's about as friendly as the debug program on MS-DOS I used back in 1988. The Android debugger has all the features you would expect in 2009.

    Of course if a developer has a good and original idea, he is far more likely to target the iPhone unless the app is very business focused in which case the Blackberry or Windows Mobile might be preferred.

    I think that WebOS is likely to attract a lot more hobbyist developers less concerned with trying to support themselves with WebOS apps. There day job will either involve front end web development, some other kind of scripting or perhaps no development at all.
  9. rlopin's Avatar
    Posts
    441 Posts
    Global Posts
    443 Global Posts
       #29  
    @ADGrant

    These are all valid points. It sounds like you fundamentally don't believe WebOS is a viable platform with a lucrative future ahead for developers looking to make a living out of this (or even some supplemental income?) due to one or more of the following reasons:

    • weak debugger
    • steep learning curve for non-JavaScript developers
    • smaller market and therefore less attractive than iPhone (for non-biz apps), Blackberry and WinMo (for biz apps)


    If you disagree with my summary of your position please correct me.

    The first item could be (and should be) addressed by Palm. We are in total agreement there. The second applies for non-JavaScript developers, but for JavaScript developers this is not an issue, and one could argue there are a lot of these types of developers. The third bullet is the classic catch-22 turning point / momentum issue. If Palm can sell enough WebOS devices (not just PREs) the platform becomes more attractive to developers. If there were more apps it would be more attractive to users and Palm would sell more devices.

    So the longest pole in the tent is the 3rd bullet, precisely the one that is the most challenging. I posit three questions:
    1. Do you think Palm has the marketing muscle, brains, patience and funding to reach the turning point?
    2. How long would you give them to pull it off before they pass the point of no return and are relegated permanently to a small niche?
    3. Would you take the gamble and develop an application for WebOS?


    Great discussion by the way -- thanks for engaging.
    Phones>Ericsson->iPaq->Treo700w>>PalmPre & TouchPad<<PC<-Amiga<-C64<-Vic20<-PET<Computers
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post

    So the longest pole in the tent is the 3rd bullet, precisely the one that is the most challenging. I posit three questions:
    1. Do you think Palm has the marketing muscle, brains, patience and funding to reach the turning point?
    2. How long would you give them to pull it off before they pass the point of no return and are relegated permanently to a small niche?
    3. Would you take the gamble and develop an application for WebOS?


    Great discussion by the way -- thanks for engaging.
    All good questions.

    I have no doubt that the Apple guys now running Palm are smart people therefore the first question is I think down to funding and might be mostly out of Palm's control. I suspect that all future R&D and marketing funds will be directed toward WebOS and not Windows Mobile.

    The second point may largely depend on the success of Android. Apple and RIM dominate the market for smartphones but they don't really compete with each other. Windows Mobile is more of a runner-up in the RIM part of the market and doesn't really compete with Apple either. I think there is room in the market for a runner up to the iPhone but I am not sure there is room for two. Android has not enjoyed a particularly good start but I believe that is a function of the hardware it is running on in the US and the cellphone network.

    I have experimented a bit with both the Android and WebOS SDKs as a way of better understanding the merits of the two platforms. The WebOS emulator is very fast and great for playing with the built-in and homebrew apps. The Android emulator is very slow and doesn't include the google apps (mail and calendar). It's not a particularly good way to explore the applications. OTOH it provides all the debugging support you could reasonable need slickly integrated with eclipse and you get to write your code in Java which is a much more pleasant experiance than writing in Javascript. Overall, its a much faster and more pleasant development experiance.

    However, if I was looking to write a sophisticated mobile app and make some money doing it, I would not develop for either platform currently. Neither platform has sufficent market share to support iPhone level pricing and (judging by the posts I have read on this forum) charging higher than iPhone prices will result in a negative reaction from the user community. That would lead to low sales and theft of the software (really easy on WebOS).

    I would probably target the iPhone and charge iPhone prices or, depending on the app, target the Blackberry and charge higher prices. If I did any software development on the Pre, it would probably involve modification of existing open source homebrew apps (its a pity the PIM apps aren't opensource).
  11. rlopin's Avatar
    Posts
    441 Posts
    Global Posts
    443 Global Posts
       #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I have no doubt that the Apple guys now running Palm are smart people therefore the first question is I think down to funding and might be mostly out of Palm's control. I suspect that all future R&D and marketing funds will be directed toward WebOS and not Windows Mobile.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The second point may largely depend on the success of Android. Apple and RIM dominate the market for smartphones but they don't really compete with each other. Windows Mobile is more of a runner-up in the RIM part of the market and doesn't really compete with Apple either. I think there is room in the market for a runner up to the iPhone but I am not sure there is room for two. Android has not enjoyed a particularly good start but I believe that is a function of the hardware it is running on in the US and the cellphone network.
    It’s interesting that although Android had a head start against the Pre, the Pre seems to have garnered much more mindshare. I have yet to see an Android advertisement. I don’t know a single person who owns an Android based phone. What happened to Google here? They’ve certainly got the financial resources to compete.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I have experimented a bit with both the Android and WebOS SDKs as a way of better understanding the merits of the two platforms. The WebOS emulator is very fast and great for playing with the built-in and homebrew apps. The Android emulator is very slow and doesn't include the google apps (mail and calendar). It's not a particularly good way to explore the applications. OTOH it provides all the debugging support you could reasonable need slickly integrated with eclipse and you get to write your code in Java which is a much more pleasant experience than writing in Javascript. Overall, its a much faster and more pleasant development experience.
    I have not developed on either platform. I read that the Palm SDK had integrated with Eclipse and had assumed a decent debugger until I read your earlier post as well as information found within this article: Getting started with developing on the Palm Pre « SOS

    Here is a quote from the aforementioned URL: “Debugging with WebOS is currently a pretty nasty affair, that requires a lot of command line wizardry, that I think only a tiny percentage of people will even attempt to use (if you’ve figured it out, well done!). However, logging is relatively simple to set up, and that’s what I use. As with developing web applications on Firefox, you can use the Firebug function console.log to print out messages, e.g., console.log(”the value of the input is ” + event.target.value); “

    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    However, if I was looking to write a sophisticated mobile app and make some money doing it, I would not develop for either platform currently. Neither platform has sufficent market share to support iPhone level pricing and (judging by the posts I have read on this forum) charging higher than iPhone prices will result in a negative reaction from the user community. That would lead to low sales and theft of the software (really easy on WebOS).
    I understand your points although I personally would take the risk for the potential reward of being on the ground floor of this platform. As I have stated in previous posts, I am not convinced the theft point is much of a threat. Most users will not go this route for technical reasons (excluding the users of this forum which are not in the majority) and also for risk concerns. Even friends for which I have offered to install FileCoaster onto their Pres were reluctant about allowing me to do that out of fear of installing something not directly backed by Palm.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I would probably target the iPhone and charge iPhone prices or, depending on the app, target the Blackberry and charge higher prices. If I did any software development on the Pre, it would probably involve modification of existing open source homebrew apps (its a pity the PIM apps aren't opensource).
    Or perhaps you could go work for Palm and improve their native apps.
    Phones>Ericsson->iPaq->Treo700w>>PalmPre & TouchPad<<PC<-Amiga<-C64<-Vic20<-PET<Computers
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post
    It’s interesting that although Android had a head start against the Pre, the Pre seems to have garnered much more mindshare. I have yet to see an Android advertisement. I don’t know a single person who owns an Android based phone. What happened to Google here? They’ve certainly got the financial resources to compete.

    I have not developed on either platform. I read that the Palm SDK had integrated with Eclipse and had assumed a decent debugger until I read your earlier post as well as information found within this article: Getting started with developing on the Palm Pre « SOS

    I understand your points although I personally would take the risk for the potential reward of being on the ground floor of this platform.

    Or perhaps you could go work for Palm and improve their native apps.
    I think what happened with Google is they ended up on the worst cellphone carrier in the US and on a very unsexy looking phone. Hopefully WebOS inspires them to try a little harder.

    However, from the developer point of view, its a different story. Palm should be embarrassed about its Eclipse plugin. Android's is very polished. It's debugger is as good as any I have used (I have used a lot).

    Being on the ground floor for any platform is of course risky. Personally I would be much more excited about developing for the Pre if it didn't require me to write javascript.
  13. Smubeht's Avatar
    Posts
    187 Posts
    Global Posts
    189 Global Posts
    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post
    @Smubeht

    Price, utility/entertainment, and quality all affect the rating of an app. That means the rating effectively measures the value of an app. If we could separate the quality, utility and price attributes of an app, what percentage weighting do you believe each has in contributing to whether or not someone makes the purchase?

    This will differ from person to person. For me personally, here are my weightings...
    • Price - 10%
    • Quality - 30%
    • Utility/Entertainment Value - 60%


    I don’t like buggy apps or apps that do a poor job of managing their memory and power footprints on the Pre, but that is not the biggest factor for me. For me I have no issues throwing down, say $20 for an application if it is really useful. For example, the myTether app in the Homebrew catalog is in my opinion extremely valuable. I would have paid $35 for that (the donation amount was fixed by the developer at $10 -- a mistake in my opinion as I would have gladly given more).

    @All
    What are your weightings?
    I do not think this is straight forward as you put it. What if the myTether app was $150. If utility and quality are full that is still 90% utility which would warrant a purchase, while obviously price would be 0% since its ridiculously overpriced. You cannot simply weight things in this manner.

    While you may gladly give more others may not. Finding the equilibrium for earnings is where the pricing point should be.

    ie. Develop x product. Find out how well liked it is. Find its price elasticity based on the previous statement. If I charge $1 I will get x purchases. If I charge $20 I will get y purchases. If x * $1 > y * $20 then you sell at $1 and vice versa. With of course middle ground(will $5 * z give highest) for pricing (anything between 1-20 in this case).

    The flaw however is that this is left to the developers of whom likely economics is not necessarily 2nd nature. While on its own the rating of an app may be high, but when the price is not adjusted accordingly to its actual rating it will be skewed.

    ie. app for 5$ and its worth it - OMG THIS IS THE BEST APP EVER 5 stars
    same app for 20$ - this is a cool app, but for 20$ it should do this this and this. 3 stars
  14. s219's Avatar
    Posts
    498 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,008 Global Posts
    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post
    As I have stated in previous posts, I am not convinced the theft point is much of a threat. Most users will not go this route for technical reasons (excluding the users of this forum which are not in the majority) and also for risk concerns. Even friends for which I have offered to install FileCoaster onto their Pres were reluctant about allowing me to do that out of fear of installing something not directly backed by Palm.

    It's not users you need to worry about, it's competitors. Several of my apps contain proprietary code that I would label as competition sensitive. There is no way I will port those apps to webOS as long as source code remains unprotected. IMHO, this is another hot topic Palm needs to address ASAP. I don't see how serious developers will devote significant time and resources to the platform as long as their source code is ripe for the taking. It's just not the way serious developers roll.
  15. rlopin's Avatar
    Posts
    441 Posts
    Global Posts
    443 Global Posts
       #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    I do not think this is straight forward as you put it. What if the myTether app was $150. If utility and quality are full that is still 90% utility which would warrant a purchase, while obviously price would be 0% since its ridiculously overpriced. You cannot simply weight things in this manner.
    LOL --- if there is one thing I've learned after having started this thread it's that pricing is definitely anything but straightforward! No way I am suggesting that at all. What I am trying to do is codify some of the decision criteria individuals use so that I may use it as the basis for a spreadsheet that can help model the potential profitability of developing applications for the Pre.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    While you may gladly give more others may not. Finding the equilibrium for earnings is where the pricing point should be.

    ie. Develop x product. Find out how well liked it is. Find its price elasticity based on the previous statement. If I charge $1 I will get x purchases. If I charge $20 I will get y purchases. If x * $1 > y * $20 then you sell at $1 and vice versa. With of course middle ground(will $5 * z give highest) for pricing (anything between 1-20 in this case).
    This is precisely the type of thing I am trying to model. The spreadsheet will have a user-customizable model with some canned ones containing default values. Ideally I would like to base the default values on real-world data, but in the absence of access to such data I was hoping to obtain the best guesses from folks on this forum. Unfortunately, every time I post a request for specific data folks seem more inclined to tell me yet another set of reasons why it is difficult to predict. Any simulation model has to start somewhere with a set of assumptions. The model will evolve from there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    The flaw however is that this is left to the developers of whom likely economics is not necessarily 2nd nature. While on its own the rating of an app may be high, but when the price is not adjusted accordingly to its actual rating it will be skewed.
    Agree -- which is part of the impetus for coming up with a useful tool that can help educate developers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    ie. app for 5$ and its worth it - OMG THIS IS THE BEST APP EVER 5 stars
    same app for 20$ - this is a cool app, but for 20$ it should do this this and this. 3 stars
    Indeed -- which is why I am attempting to get insight into how important each of the 3 criteria is to each of you.

    How important is each of the following attributes to you personally?
    • Price - ?%
    • Quality - ?%
    • Utility/Entertainment Value - ?%

    Please do not confuse any of these attributes with the "rating" you see on the App Catalog or Homebrew Catalog. These are simply what your gut tells you your particular bias is for each of the three attributes. It answers the question of whether you are more price sensitive, or more utility sensitive, etc, and to what degree. The aggregation of everyone's individual bias would yield the market bias.
    Phones>Ericsson->iPaq->Treo700w>>PalmPre & TouchPad<<PC<-Amiga<-C64<-Vic20<-PET<Computers
  16. rlopin's Avatar
    Posts
    441 Posts
    Global Posts
    443 Global Posts
       #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    It's not users you need to worry about, it's competitors. Several of my apps contain proprietary code that I would label as competition sensitive. There is no way I will port those apps to webOS as long as source code remains unprotected. IMHO, this is another hot topic Palm needs to address ASAP. I don't see how serious developers will devote significant time and resources to the platform as long as their source code is ripe for the taking. It's just not the way serious developers roll.
    Is it the code that is proprietary or the algorithm?

    If the former, the flip-side of it being easy to see the code is that you can easily tell when it has been copied. You can prove it has been copied and therefore it would be theoretically easier to get palm to remove competitive apps from the App Catalog. The assumption of course is that the code would only be useful in the context of a WebOS application. If it can be lifted and used to develop on another platform that is a different story. That would be more difficult to detect and therefore protect.

    If the latter, then you have a much stronger point. If the value were in the algorithm itself (e.g., some mathematical formula it took you much effort to develop) then obfuscation would not be enough to protect you. You would want to use compiled binary code or have the source encrypted on the device such that only WebOS could decode it. Palm would indeed need to come up with a solution here.

    I wonder how many applications would fall into this second category.
    Phones>Ericsson->iPaq->Treo700w>>PalmPre & TouchPad<<PC<-Amiga<-C64<-Vic20<-PET<Computers
  17. s219's Avatar
    Posts
    498 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,008 Global Posts
    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post
    Is it the code that is proprietary or the algorithm?

    If the former, the flip-side of it being easy to see the code is that you can easily tell when it has been copied. You can prove it has been copied and therefore it would be theoretically easier to get palm to remove competitive apps from the App Catalog. The assumption of course is that the code would only be useful in the context of a WebOS application. If it can be lifted and used to develop on another platform that is a different story. That would be more difficult to detect and therefore protect.

    If the latter, then you have a much stronger point. If the value were in the algorithm itself (e.g., some mathematical formula it took you much effort to develop) then obfuscation would not be enough to protect you. You would want to use compiled binary code or have the source encrypted on the device such that only WebOS could decode it. Palm would indeed need to come up with a solution here.

    I wonder how many applications would fall into this second category.

    Second category if I go by your definitions, but it's really one in the same to me. Typically, coming up with a novel algorithm goes hand in hand with implementing it into code when you have to deal with performance, memory footprint, etc.
  18. Smubeht's Avatar
    Posts
    187 Posts
    Global Posts
    189 Global Posts
    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlopin View Post
    LOL --- if there is one thing I've learned after having started this thread it's that pricing is definitely anything but straightforward! No way I am suggesting that at all. What I am trying to do is codify some of the decision criteria individuals use so that I may use it as the basis for a spreadsheet that can help model the potential profitability of developing applications for the Pre.



    This is precisely the type of thing I am trying to model. The spreadsheet will have a user-customizable model with some canned ones containing default values. Ideally I would like to base the default values on real-world data, but in the absence of access to such data I was hoping to obtain the best guesses from folks on this forum. Unfortunately, every time I post a request for specific data folks seem more inclined to tell me yet another set of reasons why it is difficult to predict. Any simulation model has to start somewhere with a set of assumptions. The model will evolve from there.




    Agree -- which is part of the impetus for coming up with a useful tool that can help educate developers.



    Indeed -- which is why I am attempting to get insight into how important each of the 3 criteria is to each of you.

    How important is each of the following attributes to you personally?
    • Price - ?%
    • Quality - ?%
    • Utility/Entertainment Value - ?%

    Please do not confuse any of these attributes with the "rating" you see on the App Catalog or Homebrew Catalog. These are simply what your gut tells you your particular bias is for each of the three attributes. It answers the question of whether you are more price sensitive, or more utility sensitive, etc, and to what degree. The aggregation of everyone's individual bias would yield the market bias.
    Don't think you understood me. In my example with the MyTether being $150, would you still be willing to pay even though quality and usefulness is there. If so what about $1500 or 15000. If so, you are a moron (not saying anything bad against MyTether but for 15000 you can get one of those network cards for your laptop and not even have to deal with the hassle and that would last you quite a long time nearly 25 years. If not, at least you can follow my logic.

    You should follow a model more like this

    p* = price willing to pay
    p = price
    q = quality of app in scale from 1-100
    u = usefulness of app in scale from 1-100

    ratio = (p*/p * (q+u))/2

    if ratio is > than some number, guess we can figure that out fairly easily by seeing what is a good standard, then purchasability is there, else it may not do well at that price.

    This is a fairly simple model. But I think it works better than %p %q and %u by it self with ratios for each.

    p is based on q and u and p* even more so in that, that price is what you are willing to pay given the quality and usefulness.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions