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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    a fix for the memory limitation because, ultimately,
    That's just it, there isn't really a limitation other than the physical storage on the phone. The "workaround" you mention is essentially what Palm would have to do to increase the storage. Right now they've got ~900M of storage set aside for the OS and the remaining 7.1G set aside for user storage, i.e. MP3 files, videos, pictures, etc. A true "fix" as you define it would have to come from Palm in whatever WebOS update the would push out as they would need to change the current ratio of OS to Storage. I'm sure as more apps become available via the official App store Palm will be looking to increase the amount of storage set aside for app files.

    Note that none of this has anything to do with your original statement that you will only donate to the developer that can write an app to "fix" this "limitation". This is simply meant to impress upon all interested that there really isn't a limit on the number of apps that can be installed other than the amount of physical storage on the phone.
    Terry Rodecker

    Palm Pilot -> Palm V -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> 700wx -> ppc6700 -> BB 8830 -> Pre -> iPhone (company requirement) -> TouchPad
  2. tamvegas's Avatar
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    #22  
    I agree with the above. The way the OP is phrasing it infers that it's the App Developers fault that we have the memory limitation, not Palm.
    So Wrong!
    The complaint should be directed to Palm, the only one who can create a true non work-around solution.
    The App Developers can only work within the strictures of the OS itself.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by trodecke View Post

    Note that none of this has anything to do with your original statement that you will only donate to the developer that can write an app to "fix" this "limitation". This is simply meant to impress upon all interested that there really isn't a limit on the number of apps that can be installed other than the amount of physical storage on the phone.
    I never said I would only donate to the developer who could come up with a fix. There has been efforts so circumvent the memory partitioning on the Pre. It is inellegant, and is itself not entirely succeding. Read about it here: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-...-around-4.html
    So no, the memory limitation is not dependent on the phones storage at this time. If we all want to wait for Palm to give us a fix, fine, but that is not going to help the Homebrew or sideloading community. We now have 135 or so Apps in the gallery, but without rooting, deleting and loading via USB, and then going back to the USB if you want to delete again, and still running into limitations, the average user is going to get 30-40 homebrew apps on their phone. This is not going to help get developers donations. That is why I continually am saying that the developers should collective find a working solution so that they, themselves, can fully reap the benefits. Otherwise it is only the top 35 or so that will see the fruits of their labors.
    VisorPhone Clone
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  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by tamvegas View Post
    I agree with the above. The way the OP is phrasing it infers that it's the App Developers fault that we have the memory limitation, not Palm.
    So Wrong!
    The complaint should be directed to Palm, the only one who can create a true non work-around solution.
    The App Developers can only work within the strictures of the OS itself.
    I am not, by any means, blaming the developers for the limitations inposed upon us by the Pre. What I am saying, over and over again, is that the developers will benefit more from a fix, and will likely see less and less benefits in the future when more and more apps compete for the ever shrinking amount of space available on the Pre. It is then in their direct interest to come up with a solution collectively.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  5. #25  
    Sorry, I've tried not to comment this this thread, but this is essentially wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    I never said I would only donate to the developer who could come up with a fix.
    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    ...will be the one who can find a fix for the current app download limitation. Otherwise, I am sorry, but I see no point in donating for apps that I may have to delete to make room for other applications or to make room for upgrades to existing applications.
    So it doesn't say you won't donate ONLY to the developer that fixes this. UNTIL this is fixed, you will not donate to any other developer, because you might have to delete them.

    Sorry, but as a developer that has spent about 100 hours so far working on various apps for a grand total of $8 in donations (less than $7 after PP fees), that makes you come off as a duck with an I for a U.

    I don't plan on making money from donations, I hope to sell my apps reasonably in the App Catalog. But you are essentially telling me my work is worthless, until a problem I have no control over is fixed.

    IF you have to delete the app, which is a big IF for an app you use a bunch and can easily make room for on the Pre. Keep the ipk on the computer.

    So until one bug is fixed, you don't think anything other people are doing has value? Delete all the homebrew from your Pre and be happy that you can fit everything in the official App Catalog and stop complaining.
    Your Pre wants Word Whirl from the App Catalog.

    It told me.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    Sorry, I've tried not to comment this this thread, but this is essentially wrong.



    Really?



    So it doesn't say you won't donate ONLY to the developer that fixes this. UNTIL this is fixed, you will not donate to any other developer, because you might have to delete them.

    Sorry, but as a developer that has spent about 100 hours so far working on various apps for a grand total of $8 in donations (less than $7 after PP fees), that makes you come off as a duck with an I for a U.

    I don't plan on making money from donations, I hope to sell my apps reasonably in the App Catalog. But you are essentially telling me my work is worthless, until a problem I have no control over is fixed.

    IF you have to delete the app, which is a big IF for an app you use a bunch and can easily make room for on the Pre. Keep the ipk on the computer.

    So until one bug is fixed, you don't think anything other people are doing has value? Delete all the homebrew from your Pre and be happy that you can fit everything in the official App Catalog and stop complaining.

    I think that should just about do it for this tread
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    So it doesn't say you won't donate ONLY to the developer that fixes this. UNTIL this is fixed, you will not donate to any other developer, because you might have to delete them.
    Correct. The first developer(s) I donate to shall be the one(s) to find a solution to Palm's silly app limitation. I hope I wil get the chance to donate to many developers. It is also my hope that doanations get in the hands of more developers than 30 or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    Sorry, but as a developer that has spent about 100 hours so far working on various apps for a grand total of $8 in donations (less than $7 after PP fees), that makes you come off as a duck with an I for a U.
    Yes, I see why you are frustrated. That is why I continually say, and seem to be deliberately and continually misconstrued, every developer, yourself included, will likely stand to benefit from having a solution. You are not receiving what you think are fair donations for you apps, and I understand your venting at me, as if I am the only one not donating to you. But have you thought about why is it your are not receiving more donations? If more people had access to your apps, they would be more likely to give you a donation. But how many people will have multiple games and different versions of magic eight ball, if there is only a 30-40 app limit? And if they are not on their machine, they are not going to use them and they are not going to donate.

    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    But you are essentially telling me my work is worthless, until a problem I have no control over is fixed.

    So until one bug is fixed, you don't think anything other people are doing has value? Delete all the homebrew from your Pre and be happy that you can fit everything in the official App Catalog and stop complaining.
    Wrong. Of course what you do has value. The fact that you intend to sell them on the app catalog is evident that you think so too. Every other developer has value in their work as well. But if the developers care to see more than $7 in donations here in the homebrew section a solution is required. You illustrate my point perfectly.

    Look, this is not about me. I am not the only one not donating to you for your work, so your response to me to simply quit complaining about a known problem that is effecting you personally is missing the mark. Every developer stands to benefit from a solution to, yes, I am well aware, a problem they did not create. So unless a solution is found, unfortunately, a handfull of dollars is all any develper is likely to see here.
    Last edited by sir_mycroft; 08/17/2009 at 03:48 PM.
    VisorPhone Clone
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  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by genEric122 View Post
    I think that should just about do it for this tread
    I disagree that simply ignoring a known problem is a solution. I am sorry you, and more like you, do not.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  9. tamvegas's Avatar
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    #29  
    Sir mycroft, are you not aware that any solution to the app space problem will likely be eliminated in the next WebOS update? The Sym redirect may still stand, because it simply redirects the OS to look in an additional directory for apps.
    Anything that goes deeper into WebOS to truly solve the problem would most likely disappear with the next update. And all apps in the enlarged app space.

    Have you put anywhere near the effort given to this thread to discussing this with Palm? And what response has there been?

    Remember, the Pre has only been out for 9 weeks and has already had 3 WebOS updates. With another probably concurrent to the full App Catalog release (September?).
    I for one am very enthusiastic over the commitment by Palm to the Pre and WebOS, and to the independent developer community.
    And do not know of another smartphone device that has had this level of community involvement and support this early in it's life.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    Yes, I see why you are frustrated. That is why I continually say, and seem to be deliberately and continually misconstrued, every developer, yourself included, will likely stand to benefit from having a solution. You are not receiving what you think are fair donations for you apps, and I understand your venting at me, as if I am the only one not donating to you. But have you thought about why is it your are not receiving more donations? If more people had access to your apps, they would be more likely to give you a donation. But how many people will have multiple games and different versions of magic eight ball, if there is only a 30-40 app limit? And if they are not on their machine, they are not going to use them and they are not going to donate.
    Did I say I was frustrated? I'm not. At least not at what you say. I'm frustrated with people making ultimatums to people who can't do much about it. I was surprised to get $8, because I know most people don't pay when they can get it free. That is just human nature. But, I also get annoyed when anyone who doesn't pay feels entitled to anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    I disagree that simply ignoring a known problem is a solution. I am sorry you, and more like you, do not.
    So you have posted on Palm's boards and sent in comments to Palm about this, correct? Otherwise, what you are doing here is as much use as ignoring. I'm spending my time developing, because I know Palm HAS to fix this before they open the App Catalog to many more apps, otherwise they will have a big problem.
    Last edited by sacherjj; 08/17/2009 at 06:30 PM.
    Your Pre wants Word Whirl from the App Catalog.

    It told me.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    There has been efforts so circumvent the memory partitioning on the Pre. It is inellegant, and is itself not entirely succeding. Read about it here: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-...-around-4.html
    So no, the memory limitation is not dependent on the phones storage at this time.
    Symbolic links have been in use on 'Nix boxes for as long as I can remember. As a pseudo 'Nix admin myself, they can make life much easier. Given the set of circumstance in which we operate, it's a very elegant if not foolproof solution.

    However, my assertion remains, the "fix" for the "problem" of how many apps can be installed remains with Palm. While I can see where you're coming from, I believe a post like this in Palm's forums or their developer forums would go much farther in addressing your legitimate concern than asking the developers to code around it.
    Terry Rodecker

    Palm Pilot -> Palm V -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> 700wx -> ppc6700 -> BB 8830 -> Pre -> iPhone (company requirement) -> TouchPad
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    I disagree that simply ignoring a known problem is a solution. I am sorry you, and more like you, do not.
    I Don't think I or anyone else is ignoring it... But I don't think it is a problem for Palm untill there is no room for "official" apps that they profit from.
    And I can wait till then before *****ing about it.

    If you are wondering why you are being flamed, read your original post.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post

    So you have posted on Palm's boards and sent in comments to Palm about this, correct? Otherwise, what you are doing here is as much use as ignoring. I'm spending my time developing, because I know Palm HAS to fix this before they open the App Catalog to many more apps, otherwise they will have a big problem.
    O.k. say Palm fixes the issue with an update - but just increases the size of the var file to again, only include enough room for App Catalog apps and a handfull extra. Since they can push updates out frequently, they can simply up the file size to accomodate room enough for thier apps alone. How does that change the effect the limitation has on the homebrew community? Maybe not many developers are concerned because they are going through the App Catalog and charge for thier apps, which is fine. But I was under the impression Palm was going to be open with sideloading, and that there would still be an active homebrew scene even after paid apps come tothe Pre. Perhaps I am wrong about that.
    VisorPhone Clone
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  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by trodecke View Post
    Symbolic links have been in use on 'Nix boxes for as long as I can remember. As a pseudo 'Nix admin myself, they can make life much easier. Given the set of circumstance in which we operate, it's a very elegant if not foolproof solution.
    They do not seem to be fool proof since thee are still hitting limitations that do not correspond with the 7 gigs of available space in the phone.


    Quote Originally Posted by trodecke View Post
    However, my assertion remains, the "fix" for the "problem" of how many apps can be installed remains with Palm. While I can see where you're coming from, I believe a post like this in Palm's forums or their developer forums would go much farther in addressing your legitimate concern than asking the developers to code around it.
    Fine, I don't disagree that Palm needs a solution for when they have more apps in their catalog. They only have 35 apps. The point, though, is Palm's limitation is effecting distribution of homebrew apps, of which there are now about 150, and that is not Palm's problem.

    Again, maybe there is not that much motivation to find a work-around independent of Palm, because everyone wants to submit their apps to Palm. Which is perfectly reasonable, in my opinion, because you should be paid for your work. But my impression was there was going to be a vibrant sideloading community. If I am wrong about that, and the gallery becomes just a place to beta test products, then I have to once again wonder who would donate to developers merely to be a alpha or beta tester of their product.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    They do not seem to be fool proof since thee are still hitting limitations that do not correspond with the 7 gigs of available space in the phone.




    Fine, I don't disagree that Palm needs a solution for when they have more apps in their catalog. They only have 35 apps. The point, though, is Palm's limitation is effecting distribution of homebrew apps, of which there are now about 150, and that is not Palm's problem.

    Again, maybe there is not that much motivation to find a work-around independent of Palm, because everyone wants to submit their apps to Palm. Which is perfectly reasonable, in my opinion, because you should be paid for your work. But my impression was there was going to be a vibrant sideloading community. If I am wrong about that, and the gallery becomes just a place to beta test products, then I have to once again wonder who would donate to developers merely to be a alpha or beta tester of their product.
    What cracks me up, is that this will be the way Palm will fix this problem. The symbolic link is such a simple solution that has been around for a long time. I used to own a ISP and added hard drives to a full system, creating a symbolic link to the new hard drive is the solution that we have always used. I dont see the logic behind installing all current 133 apps on the pre, knowing you wont even use half of them. I guess the saying is, if you like what the developer has created. Support the person to entice them to develop the app further. Save your IPK files if you delete it and want it back at a later time. The iPhone started out the same way as the Pre is. " We want this, Apple says NO, Outside resources says, OK, we will do it ourselves. The meanial thing is, play with us or not? Hence thats where Cydia came in to play. So comes FileCoaster. So a nut in a shell, if you dont like the APP, dont use it, dont donate. Applaud the efforts of anyone that develops to make the Palm Pre into somthing far more than what its designed for.

    I tip my hat off to all the developers/owners of this forum.

    Keep up the good work.

    P.S. I do donate, I have and will again.

    Later.....
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