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  1.    #1  
    Im doing pretty good actually, navigating my way around the OS, have done a few mods, LOVE my new dialer, and most of the How To's have worked out pretty well. It helps that I knew a little bit of linux to start out with, and was an old DOS person 100 years ago.

    However I find myself sorts swimming around in a sea of various terms that I sorta think I know some of , but also get a bit tangled up in some of the possible overlaps.

    here is my list of please explains, and I would be eternally greatful to anyone who can clearly untangle it

    Novaterm/Novacom: I "think" I pretty well understand this one, its the terminal access to the root of my system, to access it via my regular cmd (I have to hold myself back from saying dos prompt) prompt. This is apparantly a service that runs on my XP system to allow this access. IS it only needed TO have root access via the cmd promt?

    Putty: Ths one sorta confuses me?? Is this yet another way to access the root of the PRE

    SSH: and yet ANOTHER way in? or is this part of the login process using one of the above. well not the cmd way, cuz I have not had to log in at all,

    Virtual Box:Seems I had to install this , prior to installing Mojo SDK, but why, what is it, and do I need it?

    luna: I see various references to this. Is it simply some directory on the file system? Why do I see it in various hacks?

    And my last question.. I see a lot of the hacks here are not just stuff that you navigate around via the file system, but LOTS of JavaScript?? Is the PRE built on linux, and programmed in jsjsjs? $Interesting$!

    OK, all you smart young uns , help out an old but still tryin to keep up, tecky
  2. talsair's Avatar
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    #2  
    I'm sure others here can do a much better job than I on some of the terms. I'll just chime in on the ones that I can do justice to.

    Putty is a telnet/ssh client that has been around for ages. It allows you to get a linux shell usually on another machine. Think of it as opening a command window on another box, in this case your Pre using an internet connection.

    SSH is a security protocol that is now just about universally used. It is very secure and encrypted. Before, with plain old telnet access, everything was transmitted in the clear, your password, every command you type and all the data that passes between your computer (the client) and the computer you are connected too (the host). SSH took care of that problem by securing the login and data transfer. One of the series of commands you run from novaterm sets up a new user on the Pre, because as a security measure, you cannot ssh/telnet into the Pre as root. Novaterm was a special case, and really, all novaterm allowed you to do was to run a command as root on the Pre. Not exactly the same as having a full shell on the Pre. With that new user, you can then ssh into the Pre, and once there, become root.

    Very simply, Luna is the overall name for the collection of programs that manage the GUI on the Pre. Hence, whenever you add a program or modify programs through the linux interface (SSH), Luna needs to be refreshed to become aware of those changes.

    Others will, thankfully, clarify what I just said.
  3. talsair's Avatar
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    #3  
    I know, replying right after my last post, bad form, but I figure I'll post new instead of editing because this is a completely different thought.

    If you haven't setup the new user, SSH, and putty yet, you will find that it is a WHOLE lot easier to do things after you have that working. However, whatever you do, pick a strong password.

    Since I got the touchstone and installed SSH and SFTP (thanks to the guys at webos-inernals), I haven't opened up the microusb port. It's been weeks now. Very very nice. I still need to figure out how Luna decides what to show in the downloads folder. That sounds like a new thread doesn't it?
  4.    #4  
    OK, some lights are flickering in my aged brain here..

    So you are saying that IF I have putty installed on my PC , I can at any time basically telnet IN to my PRE to do the stuff that NOW I have to hook up the USB cable, in charge mode, go to cmd prompt, and run novacom -t open tty:// to get to the root@castle linux shell prompt?

    Is the level of access I have using putty any different than what I have running cmd from the USB cable?

    Also you mentioned SFTP? FTP? IS there some method of FTP available ON the PRE? I would LOVE to be able to FTP stuff to my web servers....

    Thank you for your great explanations, Talsair, and fellow Floridian!
  5.    #5  
    OH ya, and what IS Virtual Box, and do I need it and why?
  6. talsair's Avatar
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    #6  
    I'm not sure what virtual box does other than that it is a kind of sandbox to run a virtual Pre that tries really hard to act like it's a real Pre on your computer without crashing it. Other than that I can't say specifically since I am not really a dev and just push things to my Pre when I want to test a prog out.

    to the post before:

    Yes ssh is something like that. It should be that simple, but there is always wrinkles. I am almost always near a hotspot. So I use "what's my IP" to find out what ip was given to my Pre by the router my computer and pre are connected to, then use putty to get into it.

    As far as level of access, it's at it's core the same as novaterm. However, with the command line novaterm interface you are limited to running one program or command at a time. Kind of a major pain to near impossible if you are trying to edit a file, download a patch, or check logs. When you set up ssh and the user account with the instructions from webos-internals, you can ssh to the Pre, and switch user to root to do what you need. Much more powerful and efficient.

    I don't remember too well right now, but I think the sftp service is setup when you run the program to install SSH. Maybe it was an option. I'm not sure. At least that is what happened to me. If not, there are instructions on webos-internals to set that up. FTP stands for file transfer protocol. It's a way to move files from one computer to another using the internet. And like telnet vs. ssh, regular ftp is not secure, while sftp is secured with ssh. I am able to transfer files in and out of my Pre without having to hook it up through USB. I am still having a problem with the stupid downloads directory for images, but it has worked wonderfully for things like changing wallpapers and dialer graphics.

    This is to the best of my rather limited understanding. :P

    Regarding where I live, I'd much rather be living up where you are. This place stinks. Sometimes literally. LOL And unfortunately were a hurricane magnet down here. :P
  7.    #7  
    Umm thanks? I guess HAHAH

    As for FTP ya, know it well , used it for years,. Id LIKE to be able to FTP a file or a picture, FROM my PRE to a location on a webserver...

    Im still a bit confused, but maybe the SSH vs the cmd line novaterm is why I cant copy/paste the code to permanently enable the landscape email. Have to do more investigations..

    As for Key West being a Hurricane magnet? Hmmm at least for the last 5 years, seems Central Fl, its coastline, even extending down to Broward cty, were MORE Hurricane hit than Miami Dade, Monroe and the keys.. But I hear ya, it always COULD happen. We had EXTENSIVE damage from Charley right here 50 miles INLAND!
  8. #8  
    SSH is a secure linux shell, on windows you use putty. You can set up an STFP(secureftp) server on your pre, search on the webos internals wiki and you'll find it. Virtual box is the environment that the emulator runs in.
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    Welcome to open source. Things can get bumpy. Please fasten your seat belts.
    Quote Originally Posted by dianagr View Post
    You can also swipe a counterclockwise semi-circle around the center button to go back. [Do a back gesture]
  9. #9  
    Replies interspersed with questions. Replies in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by dianehelen View Post
    Im doing pretty good actually, navigating my way around the OS, have done a few mods, LOVE my new dialer, and most of the How To's have worked out pretty well. It helps that I knew a little bit of linux to start out with, and was an old DOS person 100 years ago.

    However I find myself sorts swimming around in a sea of various terms that I sorta think I know some of , but also get a bit tangled up in some of the possible overlaps.

    here is my list of please explains, and I would be eternally greatful to anyone who can clearly untangle it

    Novaterm/Novacom: I "think" I pretty well understand this one, its the terminal access to the root of my system, to access it via my regular cmd (I have to hold myself back from saying dos prompt) prompt. This is apparantly a service that runs on my XP system to allow this access. IS it only needed TO have root access via the cmd promt?

    Novacomm is a communications protocal written by Palms GEIST, that uses the USB cable to talk to the Pre instead of wireless, or ethernet or something else. It's a communications protocal that runs OVER the usb cable. Apple uses the same protocal. Which makes sense since Geist worked for them too.

    NovaTerm is a terminal program that talks to the pre OVER the novacom protocal via the usb cable. It's "just" a terminal program.


    Putty: Ths one sorta confuses me?? Is this yet another way to access the root of the PRE

    Putty is a terminal program that runs in windows. It can communicate over any ethernet-like network connection (wired, wifi, whatever) and can use "plain old telnet" communication or secure encrypted communications. Encrypted comms are refered to as "SSH" (Secure Shell.) Windows doesn't come with an SSH program, so Putty was written to fill the hole. Mac and Linux systems come with this built in.

    SSH: and yet ANOTHER way in? or is this part of the login process using one of the above. well not the cmd way, cuz I have not had to log in at all,


    SSH stands for Secure Shell -- it means that you are running a terminal program, or other program connected to the linux OS (in this case on the pre) in a secure way where all your communications are encrypted so you can't be listened to by a sniffer programm.


    Virtual Box:Seems I had to install this , prior to installing Mojo SDK, but why, what is it, and do I need it?

    Virtual Box is a program which allows an EMULATOR to run, a virtual Machine. It was written by SUN, and allows "guest" operating systems to run on your computer. So, you can run windows on a mac, or windows 98 in an XP box, or a palm pre emulator on anything.



    luna: I see various references to this. Is it simply some directory on the file system? Why do I see it in various hacks?

    LunaSysMgr - is the name of the program on the pre that provides the WebOS user interface. During development WebOS's internal code name was Luna, and since MANY of the programs are still named Luna, it makes sense to talk about Luna processes on the Pre.

    And my last question.. I see a lot of the hacks here are not just stuff that you navigate around via the file system, but LOTS of JavaScript?? Is the PRE built on linux, and programmed in jsjsjs? $Interesting$!

    Yep. Built on linux, services (like playing sound) written in Java. User interface written in javascript. But that's nothing new, the user interface for Firefox is entirely written in javascript and css.

    OK, all you smart young uns , help out an old but still tryin to keep up, tecky
  10.    #10  
    Thank you kind Boatright , you are one of my new heroes! And whoa! Cant even call YOU a young un , you are "almost" as old as me (not quite tho)

    Ok, now THIS is gonna sound weird, but your name sounds vageuly familiar to me, from years ago on another forum, having nothing to do at all with tech stuff.. does my user name ring any bellss with you? Its always been the same.

    Anyway, I digresss.. so, Novaterm/Novacom? When I am logged in to my root@castle prompt over my USB wire on to my palm, via my Windows(DOS) cmd prompt , I am running that OVER the Novacomm protocal, but not using the Novaterm terminal, am I seeing this correctly?

    IS there any advantage to doing whatever it is I attempt to do, any of the wireless ways? (putty,ssh, etc)

    Im really sorta ok with most of this, its just sorta putting all the pieces together, and making them work.

    My problem today, was pasting a whole bunch of code into my cmd window, at my root@castle prompt, to permanently enable landscape email. It did not appear to paste, but just stall. When I did a CTRL-C, to break out, it ran a whole bunch of stuff, some or all of the code I had pasted, and not seen. I rebooted the phone, and did not have landscape email.. any ideas? Or should I post this on that thread?>?

    TIA

    Forever thankful for those smarter than myself..
  11. #11  
    Ghods , you could have seen me anywhere.

    I started back in the modem days on Fidonet. I was a moderator on BIX, I was on Delphi for a while, I've been on the moderation team for soc.religion.bahai since the 1980's. I have 5K wikipedia edits. I was a developer for an active on the SBT Loop. I was active in various Foxpro forums, I was active in various PALM forums in the late 90's and early 00's. I am active in Debate and Forensics. I am a moderator on Baen's Bar, and non-fiction editor for the 1632 science fiction series.

    If none of those ring any bells then it's unlikely
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by rboatright View Post
    Ghods , you could have seen me anywhere.

    I started back in the modem days on Fidonet. I was a moderator on BIX, I was on Delphi for a while, I've been on the moderation team for soc.religion.bahai since the 1980's. I have 5K wikipedia edits. I was a developer for an active on the SBT Loop. I was active in various Foxpro forums, I was active in various PALM forums in the late 90's and early 00's. I am active in Debate and Forensics. I am a moderator on Baen's Bar, and non-fiction editor for the 1632 science fiction series.

    If none of those ring any bells then it's unlikely
    OK then, my head is officially spinning,... wasnt any of those.. but thanks!

    I guess I know you now..
  13.    #13  
    OK, so Virtual Box and Emulator?

    Do I NEED them? have no interest in developing, just finding cool do able stuff to do via root access on my pre. I have had no problem getting into root@castle via cmd prompt. But I now constantly see that virtual box thing in my network properties

    Do I need that? If NOT how can I get rid of it?

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