Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 61 to 78 of 78
  1. #61  
    If you really want to go there, Palm (McNamee) also promised the Pre uses Alien Technology, like WarpDrive, and it can also get you to the fourth round of Dancing with the Stars.

    How dare you palm?

    I'm taking my brilliant developing skills elsewhere.
  2. #62  
    Websters says...

    distribute - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    1: to divide among several or many
    2 a: to spread out so as to cover something
    b: to give out or deliver especially to members of a group

    Emails and memos go out to distribution lists and are in fact distributed.

    But the testing exclusion would apply I think especailly if Homebrew were clearly defined as a beta test forum.

    You have to allow a developer to test. Betas can and often are for thousands of testers or more.

    - Craig
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    The people running Palm are fools. If they had never promised "side-loading" (FWIW, I don't really care for that term...what ever happened to simply referring to it as the freedom to install apps as you see fit?), then this might not be a big deal to me.
    Um, in the last 10 minutes I used the publicly available SDK to "side-load" an application into the emulator (and assume it will work identically to a real Pre, since the Eclipse plugin provides those two options).

    Where's the problem?

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Um, in the last 10 minutes I used the publicly available SDK to "side-load" an application into the emulator (and assume it will work identically to a real Pre, since the Eclipse plugin provides those two options).

    Where's the problem?

    -- Rod
    But haven't you agreed to only distribute it to others via the App Catalog?
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    But haven't you agreed to only distribute it to others via the App Catalog?
    Yes. Everyone who has signed up as an official Dev has agreed to the TOS. However, if you're not "distributing" your app, you're only allowing a select few (such as the people registered to these forums) to TEST your application, I would believe that is completely legal.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    But haven't you agreed to only distribute it to others via the App Catalog?
    Anyone who downloads it is automatically part of my testing group for testing the application while it's waiting for approval for inclusion in the Palm App Catalog.

    They are installing it on their "testing environment" (i.e. their Pre).

    I could even put an EULA on the package to that effect ...

    Once it's part of the Palm App Catalog, there is no longer a need to side-load it. If it is not accepted for the Palm App Catalog, then Palm can't really complain if I say it needs lots more testing by lots more people ... obviously it needs to be improved so that it can be accepted by Palm into the official Palm App Catalog.

    If it's only being installed on the Pre's that are part of a closed community (i.e. a company), then just like the GPL that is not considered to be "distribution".

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Anyone who downloads it is automatically part of my testing group for testing the application while it's waiting for approval for inclusion in the Palm App Catalog.

    They are installing it on their "testing environment" (i.e. their Pre).

    I could even put an EULA on the package to that effect ...

    Once it's part of the Palm App Catalog, there is no longer a need to side-load it. If it is not accepted for the Palm App Catalog, then Palm can't really complain if I say it needs lots more testing by lots more people ... obviously it needs to be improved so that it can be accepted by Palm into the official Palm App Catalog.

    If it's only being installed on the Pre's that are part of a closed community (i.e. a company), then just like the GPL that is not considered to be "distribution".

    -- Rod

    Can you have people pay a fee to 'test' the application or does 'testing' have to be done for free? If the former, developers have much more leeway to make money outside the App Catalog. If the latter, then 'testing' outside the App Catalog won't be sustainable for developers trying to make a living. Right?
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirataXero View Post
    Yes. Everyone who has signed up as an official Dev has agreed to the TOS. However, if you're not "distributing" your app, you're only allowing a select few (such as the people registered to these forums) to TEST your application, I would believe that is completely legal.
    I don't think most people are too concerned about whether Palm is going to allow developers to easily distribute their apps to a small group of beta testers. I think the issue is that the TOS apparently prevents developers from selling/distributing their app through places other than Palm's app store, contrary to what they've previously said on the subject. This also means that all developers need to get their app "signed" by Palm, which could leave things in the hands of Palm as to whether or not they'll agree to sign certain apps, a la Apple.

    I'm still confused by a couple of things...
    1) It's been stated here that apps are not compiled and are text-only. This is something I've heard before and is a matter of concern. If you can't compile and/or obfuscate the code, anyone can make use of it. Why would I as a developer choose to do that (unless I was already planning on developing my apps as open source)?

    2) It's been stated here that an app can be successfully "side-loaded". Does the app appear any differently on the device when loaded this way? If not, what does Palm's "signing" process do?
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think you're on to something there. Out of curiosity, have you signed the agreement with Palm, or is this just "educated speculation"?
    I have not signed. Not because I am worried about Palm's actions, it's just I don't really have the skills to develope apps. So I would have to say it is a guess. But it stands to reason that Palm could not afford to file countless suits against developers who are releasing app, even if they are getting a bit of money for it. It would simply be cost prohibitive for Palm. No, I think they want that language in the contract to ensure they monopolize the general distribution of the apps. Let's face it, most people who own Pre's will only get their apps from the Catalog, just like most iphone users. A very small percentage of Pre users will side load app. Palm can't be worried about those few. Ultimately what they want to prevent is a rival to the App Catalog itself, thus the language.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post

    Never ask a lawyer to tell you "Yes, you can do that". You will never get the answer you want. Lawyers are paid to say "No", not "Yes".

    -- Rod
    Actually, Lawyers are paid to say "Maybe."
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  11. PreGame's Avatar
    Posts
    540 Posts
    Global Posts
    550 Global Posts
       #71  
    Where are you guys seeing that giving people "Test" applications is ok? the only thing I see about testing is in 4.2 and that relates to having to sign a package.

    If you are wanting to use the SDK I would recommend you go with the GNU policy, as GNU states there cannot be a limitation on distribution and Palm 4.3 says any open source licenses overrides their 4.3 clause.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    A very small percentage of Pre users will side load app. Palm can't be worried about those few. Ultimately what they want to prevent is a rival to the App Catalog itself, thus the language.
    EXACTLY what I've been trying to say. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    Actually, Lawyers are paid to say "Maybe."
    This is also what I said earlier. hahaha.

    Good call.

    For those that try to fight for no reason:

    If you WANT to sell your app, WHY would you NOT want it in the app catalogue where it gets free publicity and easy accessibility? Now say things like "I'm scared Big Bad Palm will deny my wonderful Godsend application".

    Prove it.

    Until I see someone like Mapara make his Home Screen app, send it to Palm (which he already stated he won't do) or Blubble's music app, sent to Palm and rejected on grounds that "Palm does not approve". I refuse to try to make you people understand how ridiculously circular your logic is.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    ...all developers need to get their app "signed" by Palm, which could leave things in the hands of Palm as to whether or not they'll agree to sign certain apps, a la Apple.
    I understand that completely, but how about for ONCE we stop stereotyping "big bad corporate types" and let Palm do what they plan on doing?

    Instead of everyone ASSUMING that Palm WILL in fact be a strict gatekeeper, why don't we jump on board, play nice for oh... 2 months? and SEE if Palm refuses us or not?

    Again, everyone talks about how evil Apple really is, honestly, I heard they had upwards of 60 fart apps. Really? Big Bad Apple with their horrible application blocking powers think that fart apps are worthwhile?

    Unless you guys are planning on making baby-shaking apps, I honestly don't see why EVERONE is hot and bothered about this.
  14. #74  
    Speaking of Big Brother:

    Anyone notice the front page today? Verizon's trying to come up with their own app store?

    Only Verizon app store products will have access to APIs?

    Wow. Verizon + Apple = The Red Scare.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreGame View Post
    Where are you guys seeing that giving people "Test" applications is ok?...
    Jason quoted it:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    Just FYI, if you've read the SDK agreement, then you've also seen:

    4.2 Application Signing. Developer acknowledges and agrees that Applications which access or make use of Palm’s APIs may not be installed or used on Palm Devices, except in a test environment, without first being signed with a certificate issued by or for Palm.
    ...
    For the Homebrew apps, we are testing incomplete apps to help the developer have a product that can be considered by Palm.

    - Craig
  16. #76  
    SirataXero: It all comes down to choice. If I ever develop an application ready for mass consumption, you better believe I will distribute it via the app catalog. However, I don't like Palm telling me I have to use it.

    On top of that, lets pretend I want to make "Tentacle Hentia Viewer" and sell it for $30. This is all hypothetical, by the way. Now, I completely understand that Palm wont want this in their store, and would certainly be understandable. So I have this application, I have my way of distributing it(my site), and I have have a target audience that I know both wants it and will pay. Now I have made a product that is perfectly legal, to be used in legal ways, yet I cannot distribute it because of that silly little clause. Now, if this was a PC, I wouldn't have to worry about it, but Palm has made this wall which directly puts a line in the sand between a PC and their phone.

    And another hypothetical which has already been mentioned is a business creating applications for use inside the business. Businesses tend to like to do things legitimately, and falsely labeling software to get around TOS is probably not going to bode with with company lawyers, even if Palm has not interest in taking action.

    When it comes down to it, Palm is basically saying that they are the only place I'm allowed to get finished software for my phone. And as a user I don't like that. Even if I would never want software from outside of Palm(and maybe these forums for testing), I rather dislike not being given the option. Their store should stand on it's own merit, and I should not be forced to use it. I really think that Palm should remove that clause exactly because it will do practically nothing and it limits consumer choice even if 99.999999% of consumers wouldn't be affected in the least.
  17. #77  
    dbeta,

    Thank you very much for your well thought out, articulated, understandable explanation.

    What you are saying makes perfect sense.

    Now to explain my point of view, If I were to make "Tentacle Hentai Viewer", I wouldn't want to associate myself with it anyway, so I would release via pseudonym. But that's just me though.

    In general, if you want to release an app which you don't think Palm will approve of, release it via pseudonym. Palm holds YOU responsible for agreeing to their TOS. So if you want yourself associated with your app, which is ready for mass consumption, I suggest you throw it into the catalog.

    I see what you're saying when you say if you have an audience that wants it and is willing to pay, and they might not be completely tech savvy: i.e.: be able to get the emulator up and running and "side-load" said app, they are SOL. This does limit your earning potential in that sense.

    But what I am arguing is, instead of revolting and running up to Palm with pitchforks and torches, why don't we just let things go the way they are going right now and see what happens. The iPhone itself had people running their own private app store, and it will come to the Pre as well.

    What I keep saying is: Where there's a will, there's a way.

    Personally, I wouldn't want the layman to go through the app store and see "Tentacle Hentai Viewer". I'd want them to need to "jailbreak", so to speak, their Pre and install an alternate app catalog to have such options available.

    As per the legitimate business practices, I already stated that Palm could EASILY include limitations on apps in their catalogue: i.e. password protected downloads and such.

    I understand where you're coming from. I normally don't like being forced to be told what to do. Hence why I support Palm instead of Apple. However, I think, at least in these early stages, Palm REALLY needs to build up their app catalog, so they're trying to siphon everyone in. I'm not sure if you followed the Pre ever since its "introduction" back in January (or was it December?), but ever since then, it's biggest challenge has been: "it's wonderful, but, apps are very limited... if it's ever going to compete with the iPhone the app catolog needs to..." yada yada yada. You get the idea.

    Can we, as a support base, at least go with the flow for now, beef up the app catalog a little, and THEN complain when we don't have access to "Tentacle Hentai Viewer"s?
  18. PreGame's Avatar
    Posts
    540 Posts
    Global Posts
    550 Global Posts
       #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Milominderbinder View Post
    Jason quoted it:
    For the Homebrew apps, we are testing incomplete apps to help the developer have a product that can be considered by Palm.

    - Craig
    That is for application signing, not distributing.
    MyFlashlight - The Original Palm Pre Flashlight Application
    fileCoaster - The Original On Pre Application Installer

    Donations are greatly appreciated and can be donated HERE!. Again thank you ALL for your continued support!

    Follow us on Twitter @vertigoapps
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Posting Permissions