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  1. sam1am's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by linwiz311 View Post
    This may be a noob question, but can apps get access to the internal system? If so, we can make an app to run the system commands that xorg was talking mentioned. It'd be a user friendly way to open a hole to install more apps.
    How would you install THAT app?
  2. #62  
    How would you install THAT app?
    I'm thinking that we'd have instructions for people to reset their phones in dev mode and install that app. Once installed, they can turn off develop mode. I think the general feeling is that we don't want people to remain in developer mode as it's not secure. But if it's a one time thing, then I don't think it'll be too difficult for people to do.
  3. #63  
    Another route could be find a way to remote "running" apps, aren't they just web services without real compiled code after all?
    Really, I don't know much about web developing but what if I put the entire directory tree of com.palm.blabla in a web server and access through the palm browser? Maybe is too much simplistic i know but anybody tried this?
  4. #64  
    Palm has a check in the web browser. And I don't believe the the app interpreter uses the browser codebase anyway.
  5. xorg's Avatar
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       #65  
    Could an external web page be created that uses a script tag to reference JavaScript and execute an SDK installer command against an ipk that exists in /media/internal (the usb drive)? Or execute a provided shell script that the user puts in the usb drive with the ipk? I'm a unix/linux guy, not a web developer.

    The user experience would then be to copy the ipk to the USB drive (with sh script if needed) and then visit a web page to complete install.

    BTW, with the interruptions in this thread that disrupt flow of ideas, I'll be updating the original post with ideas as they come about. Check out the OP once in a while.

    Please post if you have an idea to add or to discuss other ideas, not to challenge the approach.
  6. #66  
    Could an external web page be created that uses a script tag to reference JavaScript and execute an SDK installer command against an ipk that exists in /media/internal (the usb drive)? Or execute a provided shell script that the user puts in the usb drive with the ipk? I'm a unix/linux guy, not a web developer.
    That would be great if it worked. However, I believe that Palm sandboxed the web browser so that pages from the web cannot access the local filesystem. And anyway, if it turns out that we could make a method like this, Palm will most likely block it, as it will also be a security issue. Malicious users could create a website that would mess around with underlying file system.

    I still think the best method would be to figure out a way to make an app that lets you install other apps. As long as it an app can access the file system and run commands, it should definitely be possible. The app could ask you to paste in a url and then it would download the file and run appropriate commands to install the package. However, I don't know if the Mojo API supports this and if so, what commands to use.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by linwiz311 View Post
    Palm has a check in the web browser. And I don't believe the the app interpreter uses the browser codebase anyway.
    I think it does:
    #initctl respawn no
    #killall LunaSysMgr
    #LunaSysMgr
    [...]
    ** (LunaSysMgr:1481): WARNING **: pushDNAST: recieved push for DNAST from 'startup-sequence'
    WebKit 3.1/V8 v8=1.0.3.6

    Also note:

    ** (LunaSysMgr:1481): DEBUG: ApplicationManager started
    ** Message: ApplicationManager on service bus.
    Settings::load(): 5 application paths defined: PGThreadGlobalContext::instance(): 0xb62a3410
    ** Message: appFoldersPath = /usr/lib/luna/applications/
    ** Message: appFoldersPath = /var/luna/applications/
    ** Message: appFoldersPath = /var/usr/lib/luna/applications/
    ** Message: appFoldersPath = /usr/palm/applications/

    ** (LunaSysMgr:1481): WARNING **: appFoldersPath = /usr/palm/applications/ IS a system app folder
    ** Message: ApplicationManager::scanApplicationsFolders(/usr/palm/applications/): adding com.palm.app.backup
    [...]** Message: ApplicationManager::scanApplicationsFolders(/usr/palm/applications/): the apps are now:
    ** Message: com.palm.app.backup
    ** Message: com.palm.app.bluetooth
    ** Message: com.palm.app.browser
    ** Message: com.palm.app.calculator
    ** Message: com.palm.app.calendar
    ** Message: com.palm.app.camera
    ** Message: com.palm.app.certificate
    ** Message: com.palm.app.contacts
    ** Message: com.palm.app.dataimport
    ** Message: com.palm.app.dateandtime
    ** Message: com.palm.app.deviceinfo
    ** Message: com.palm.app.devmodeswitcher
    ** Message: com.palm.app.docviewer
    ** Message: com.palm.app.email
    ** Message: com.palm.app.firstuse
    ** Message: com.palm.app.help
    ** Message: com.palm.app.languagepicker
    ** Message: com.palm.app.location
    ** Message: com.palm.app.maps
    ** Message: com.palm.app.messaging
    ** Message: com.palm.app.musicplayer
    ** Message: com.palm.app.notes
    ** Message: com.palm.app.pdfviewer
    ** Message: com.palm.app.phone
    ** Message: com.palm.app.phoneprefs
    ** Message: com.palm.app.photos
    ** Message: com.palm.app.screenlock
    ** Message: com.palm.app.soundsandalerts
    ** Message: com.palm.app.streamingmusicplayer
    ** Message: com.palm.app.tasks
    ** Message: com.palm.app.updates
    ** Message: com.palm.app.wifi
    ** Message: com.palm.app.videoplayer
    ** Message: com.palm.app.videoplayer.launcher
    ** Message: com.palm.app.youtube
    ** Message: appFoldersPath = /var/usr/palm/applications/
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by linwiz311 View Post
    That would be great if it worked. However, I believe that Palm sandboxed the web browser so that pages from the web cannot access the local filesystem. And anyway, if it turns out that we could make a method like this, Palm will most likely block it, as it will also be a security issue. Malicious users could create a website that would mess around with underlying file system.
    Ok, but how about a system to "call" the framework namespace like palm://com.palm.app/etc/etc inside a script? Are u absolutely sure that they filtered it? Perhaps they're trying to push a new standard on the web and they don't care eheh
  9. #69  
    Are u absolutely sure that they filtered it? Perhaps they're trying to push a new standard on the web and they don't care eheh
    Positive. That's partly why IE got a bad name. Developers figured out ways to run scripts (mostly ActiveX) from the browser and were using it to install adware on unsuspecting visitors. Browser security is all based on isolating the browser from the underlying file system.
    It would be great if it worked - it's just that I believe Palm will view it as a security threat and patch up faster than the email one.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by xorg View Post
    Great great info, greg_roll.

    I just manually put an .ipk in /media/internal/developer (the USB drive) and ran the command within rooted pre...

    luna-send -i palm://com.palm.appinstaller/installNoVerify '{"target": "/media/internal/developer/FILENAME.ipk", "subscribe": true}'

    ...and it installed.

    So we just need to figure out a way to execute that command over novacom, hopefully while bypassing a lot of the SDK baggage. We may only need to require the user loads webOS Doctor and not the SDK, though I have other ideas for using 3rd party novacom drivers. More on that later.

    Another possible angle is to create a website that includes webOS libraries and can either execute the above command or trigger the luna install from an SDK library. That might allow someone to manually place a file anywhere in the USB drive (/internal/media) and then visit a website to complete the installation.
    Excellent news.

    Are you able to sned me a link to an IPK that will install on the Pre?
    I must have been copying the wrong ones because they didn't actually install for me.

    If you run "SDK\bin\palm-install.bat <path to ipk file> --debug" from your PC are you able to install the IPK on the Pre?

    All my testing has been on the emulator as I am in Aus and we don't have the Pre yet
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    I posted this in the Hhomebrew section:

    1. Download the Mojo SDK to your PC by going here: http://preinsiders.com/home/2009/06/...ed-to-the-web/

    2. Set your Pre to developer mode by typing the following in Universal Search: upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart. Follow the prompts.

    3. Hook your Pre to your PC in “Just Charge” mode. Files will (automatically?) install.

    4. Restart your Pre.

    5. Download the desired app to your PC from the Homebrew App thread here: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/

    6. Drag the .ipk file for the Homebrew App onto Program Files>Palm>SDK>bin>palm-install.bat on the PC (a cmd prompt will pop up and after this you should see the app icon in your programs on the Pre).


    Mostly taken from work of JohnLBurger and Drybonz, Does it get easier than this?
    this message is pretty much the closest method and its pretty simple to do, not to discourage your work but for now its pretty cool to at least have something!!
  12. #72  
    Hey guys I've been following this thread and been experimenting on my own with installing apps on the Pre. I have been working on a installer type app for the Pre, so once we figure out how to install easily from the computer, we can just install one app on the Pre to manage all of the .ipk files there. While coding an app that can execute the palm://com.palm.appinstaller/installNoVerify command from the Pre itself I found that if the code of say the first-assistant in an app was to contain that code, the Pre will never allow that scene to be pushed, so the code cannot be executed. If i was to take the exact same app and just turn that command into a comment( with the //) the Pre will push that scene. I haven't rooted my Pre yet(trying to keep it unrooted so anything i find could be used in a user friendly app later), but I have read the earlier posts in the thread and played with the webOSdoctor and learned that it is related to command-resources-handler.json. My question is this, without a rooted Pre, is there any way we can modify the command-resources-handler.json to allow the palm://com.palm.appinstaller/installNoVerify code to be execute from one of our apps?
  13. xorg's Avatar
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       #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by cinamon View Post
    If i was to take the exact same app and just turn that command into a comment( with the //) the Pre will push that scene.
    Thanks much for sharing your findings, good info. Could you elaborate more on this?

    My question is this, without a rooted Pre, is there any way we can modify the command-resources-handler.json to allow the palm://com.palm.appinstaller/installNoVerify code to be execute from one of our apps?
    You probably can't change files on a non-rooted Pre - except with webOS Doctor via desktop, seems like a lot is possible.


    Separately....

    If we go with a desktop install method, I've been thinking of a way to do behind the scenes install of SDK or webDoctor that extracts only what is needed to do app installs.

    IE for SDK, a wrapper install app for the desktop would download the SDK, with a prompt message to user that it will do so. It will download the SDK, extract the novacom drivers, palm-install.bat and any other minimum dependencies. It would create a link to palm-install on the Desktop that says something like "Drop Pre App Here to Install' to make it more consumer friendly. Would then instruct user to put phone in konami code.

    Next best way would be to do this with webOS Doctor (wrapper install app) since Doctor does not appear to need konami code (as roar pointed out), but we'd need to figure out how to push the file and push the luna install command (that greg_roll pointed out).

    Not sure of licensing implications but we could go for it and press the issue. The wrapper installer app itself would not include Palm code - it would download it in full, but only use what is needed for a consumer friendly install. Anybody experienced with writing installer apps for Windows?
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by xorg View Post
    Thanks much for sharing your findings, good info. Could you elaborate more on this?
    What happens when the Pre loads an app without the code it goes from the index.html file to the stage-assistant to whatever the stage assistant tells the Pre to do(in my case it tells it to go to the first scene which contains the call to com.palm.appinstaller). From my testing when my first scene(the scene with the actuall install code) contains the install code completely intact the Pre prvents itself from continuing beyond the stage-assistant and therefore hangs on the index.html, which is the thing that is displayed on the screen while the stage-assistant code is executed. I was figuring that as long as this sort of check on apps is in place we won't be able to run the install command from within a nonrooted Pre, but then I remembered an example included in the SDK.

    In the Services app in the samples included in the SDK there are numerous calls to com.palm.applicationmanager that are successfully executed from with the services app. When I tried to copy this code into my app the Pre again refused to execute the code, and when I attempted to change the call from within the services app to the install code, the Pre refused to load that scene of the services app.

    This all leads up to my theory. I believe that some piece of code from within the services app is telling the Pre something that allows it to run the com.palm.applicationmanager from within the services app. If this is the case and we can figure out what the code is we should be able to get the pre to let us run the install command from the pre itself. If we figure this out we can put together a 3rd part app store kind of thing that would allow the end user to only have to install one package from their computer, and then be able to install all the other apps from a user friendly app on the Pre itself. I would look for the code to allow my app to execute the install command, but I will be afk for the next few days at a cabin. I'll try to check this thread everyday to try to answer any questions, but I will be useless for coding for the next few days. Happy fourth of july everyone.
  15. #75  
    Any luck?
  16. #76  
    Hi guys,

    Using webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar and a Java class I have made I am able to send commands to the Palm Pre Emulator (I don't have a Pre, im in Aus ). Because of this I am also able to run the install command for an IPK file.

    I have created two classes. One to send commands to the Pre and one to copy and install IPK files on the pre.

    I think you could even get away with deleting \resources and \com\ice from webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar which would make the file very small.

    NOTE: I have tested this on the Palm SDK Emulator. I have handled the Palm Pre in the code. Just havent been able to test it.

    Hopefully someone is willing to give this a go if it works I will update the WIKI and post source code etc.

    Hopefully the instructions below make sense. If using the USB command doesn't work with the Palm Pre try the EMU command and see if that picks up the Palm Pre.

    Requirements:

    Java (any version??, im using 1.6)
    webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar (h t t p : / / palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar)
    My class files (see download link below)

    Instructions:

    FIX link below. Still havent posted enough to attach URL links.

    Download h t t p : / / cid-e47a245fdc43bd04.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/PreTools.zip and extract the contents to a folder.
    Copy webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar to the same folder.

    You should now have in that folder:
    Applications\
    InstallApp.bat
    PreCommand.jar
    PreInstall.jar
    RunCommand.bat
    webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar

    How to use PreCommand: (restart the Pre)
    Open a command prompt to the folder above.
    Type "RunCommand emu /sbin/shutdown now -r" to run on the SDK pre emulator
    Type "RunCommand usb /sbin/shutdown now -r" to run on the Palm Pre device

    How to use PreInstall: (install an application)
    Open a command prompt to the folder above.
    Copy a homebrew IPK file to the applications directory. (E.g myapp.ipk)

    Type "InstallApp emu myapp.ipk E:" to install myapp.ipk on the SDK Palm Emulator. Only specify the IPK file name not the full path. (The file must be manually copied to /media/internal/developer)
    Type "InstallApp usb myapp.ipk E:" to copy the myapp.ipk to the E:\ (palm pre /media/internal/developer) and install it. Only specify the IPK file name not the full path.
  17. xorg's Avatar
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       #77  
    Great effort! Looks promising. I'm testing now. Hopefully this can work w/out needing Dev mode.
  18. xorg's Avatar
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       #78  
    Almost there. The copy command did not work even though the drive letter shows mounted. It says it completed the copy to the drive letter but it doesn't show up in the developer folder. Should be easy fix. Should also be able to copy by drive mount name "PALM PRE", which is consistent, rather than drive letter. copy *.ipk \\PALM PRE\developer That way drive letter would not have to be supplied.

    I did manually copy the ipk file to the USB developer folder but the install command will only work when Pre is in charging mode, not USB mode. But it did work! A milestone in itself. I already have the Novacom drivers and SDK already loaded though. Will likely need to extract and load Novacom drivers from the webdoctor.jar. I haven't tested on laptop w/out novacom drivers or SDK yet.

    I also haven't tested yet if this would work out of Dev mode. It could be a possibility since webDoctor works w/out Dev mode. That would be the icing on the cake.

    Am heading out for breakfast. Will do some more testing later.

    Great work to this point. Especially for not having a Pre.
  19. xorg's Avatar
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       #79  
    Good news. You're very close. I've done some more testing on a fresh WinXP with no SDK and no Nova drivers.

    I did have to load the Novacom drivers by extracting it from the webdoctor jar resources directory. Once installed, the Palm shows up as a Novacom device in Windows device manager with dev mode turned on. I also installed Java runtime.

    You have a small error in your InstallApp.bat... need to change the copy from %3 to %3\developer or change the luna install command to install app from USB root directory.

    Here's the catch though. It works great but the Pre must be in USB mode for the copy to work but USB mode won't work for the Luna command. You have to then put the Pre in charge mode (to use novacom drivers) and then the Luna command works.

    Ideally, we would find the command to send the file to the Pre usb\developer without USB mode. If the SDK can, there should be a way.

    Here's how this could work for consumers...

    They run a wrapper Windows install app that does the following...
    - downloads webdoctor behind scenes, renames to .zip temp, silently runs \resources\novacom.msi drivers then renames webdoctor back to .jar
    - downloads/installs java runtime automatically if needed
    - creates an InstallApp.bat link on the desktop for end user to drop app ipk file.

    For now, using konami code is needed in order to use novacom driver method. Ideally, we figure out how to run luna command via webdoctor w/out konami code. Somehow webdoctor is able to execute commands w/out dev mode.
  20. SirWill's Avatar
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    #80  
    I successfully installed an .ipk by manually copying the ipk file to the /media/internal/developer. I did this without being in dev mode. However, I'm also one who can install from the sdk to the pre without being in dev mode. This clearly holds promise.
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