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  1. nerp's Avatar
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       #1  
    There are some obvious things here since the 1.04 update that should be pointed out. The Pre is not going to be an "open source" phone. The Pre is also not going to deviate from Apple's application store model: censor, censor, censor.

    The signs are obvious:

    Palm hasn't finish development on the app store. There's no way to charge for applications, and application package signatures are not being verified. Palm clearly intends to control every application that you place on your phone: and I'd bet that this isn't just a Palm requirement, but also a Sprint one. In fact, the speed at which the ipk hole was plugged is an indication of Palm and Sprint's intention. Palm's note to Sprint as reported by DJDisturbed says it all:

    Unauthorized applications could be installed without having physical access to the device
    (see: h t t p:/ / forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/189424-1-0-4out-2.html#post1718192)

    This fix was rushed out to squash the homebrew development community and ensure the Sprint and Palm have an ongoing lock on applications made available through the store.

    More evidence of the future tactics: The Craigslist scanning application available in the Pre store provides no access to any of the adult sections of Craigslist. There is no option to turn adult mode on, and there won't be - because this isn't the kind of thing that Palm wants in their application store.

    Do not expect to be able to put out an application in the app store and just have it instantly made available to the public. Clearly Palm will not be allowing this in the future. You will be censored just like the iPhone's app store.

    Palm is leveraging fear for profit in the same way that politicians do: "Afraid your phone will be hacked? Cool. We'll happily control every application that's on it an remove your personal responsibility. Not that it will be our fault if the phone is hacked - but we'll help you take every precaution by protecting you against applications with "unsavory content." Here's a whether forecast application with some God advertising. See how family friendly we are?"

    Nerp
  2. #2  
    Read the Homebrew thread. Xorg stated that Palm rushed out the fix because it's a huge flaw. Palm is, however, open to other methods of installing homebrew apps.
  3. sam1am's Avatar
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    #3  
    I've heard Palm say both things - yes and no to homebrew. In January they answered a question suggesting they would allow homebrew apps. More recently they've seemed to turn around on this. However, people keep saying "Palm has promised sideloading apps" but I can't find a reference.
  4. nerp's Avatar
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       #4  
    ... I'll believe it when I see it. There's too much money to be made here. While Palm may be thinking that "sideloaded" or "homebrew" applications should be fine, the devil will be in the details. The details are in the Sprint contract with Palm - and no one wants lawyers to be involved. Sprint has a historical desire to control the software on their phones and continues to make money by exerting this control.

    Do you think that Palm just volunteered to Sprint: "Oh, and we made it so that no one can delete that NASCAR application."? That was a Sprint requirement to the Palm devs once Sprint figured out that someone could just delete the app (and it's clearly a hack in the code ...).

    I don't think it matters what Palm wants. The reversal of Sprint's public talk of homebrew apps in January seems to support this (because Sprint's deal was completed with Palm ... um ... in January, 2009 ... see: h t t p : / / money.cnn.com/2009/01/30/technology/sprint.nextel.fortune/index.htm )

    Nerp
  5. sam1am's Avatar
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    #5  
    Sprint isn't going to have much to say about it in ~6 months when they no longer have exclusivity on WebOS.
  6. #6  
    And when that time comes, I'll root my phone, disable autoupdates, and enjoy it like a product I own, rather than rent.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerp View Post
    ... I'll believe it when I see it. There's too much money to be made here. While Palm may be thinking that "sideloaded" or "homebrew" applications should be fine, the devil will be in the details. The details are in the Sprint contract with Palm - and no one wants lawyers to be involved. Sprint has a historical desire to control the software on their phones and continues to make money by exerting this control.

    Do you think that Palm just volunteered to Sprint: "Oh, and we made it so that no one can delete that NASCAR application."? That was a Sprint requirement to the Palm devs once Sprint figured out that someone could just delete the app (and it's clearly a hack in the code ...).

    I don't think it matters what Palm wants. The reversal of Sprint's public talk of homebrew apps in January seems to support this (because Sprint's deal was completed with Palm ... um ... in January, 2009 ... see: h t t p : / / money.cnn.com/2009/01/30/technology/sprint.nextel.fortune/index.htm )

    Nerp
    Something tells me thats not the case(re the nascar app). Can you delete the youtube app, or the nav app, or any other app on the page the nascar app is on? I didn't think so. Guess what though? You can delete the Nascar app on the Blackberry Pearl, yet thats a sprint phone! You can even delete the Nav! You can delete a lot of apps that came preloaded on the Pearl. Its not a Sprint thing, Palm obviously felt the apps on that page were important. You are also looking at a major security flaw in absolutely the wrong way, thinking that its directly to squash homebrew, when xorg has already posted directly about the subject, and that homebrew is still very much alive. Your posts in this thread are nothing but ignorant rants, the facts are not on your side.
  8. McCarthy's Avatar
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    #8  
    This is all possible, but I'm not overly worried because we have to under stand that the Pre is not the Iphone, it's in a way a cross between a Blackberry and an Apple.

    I say this because Palm has remote wipe and remote back up for a reason, in case Enterprises want to pick up this phone and do you think a Major company who's looking for a phone to invest in is gunna be happy to hear that by clicking on an .ISK that it'll install instantly?

    No they won't, considering the options to make programs "non-removable" in the Jason File(.JSON). So someone in your workforce accidentally clicks on an attachment in a spam'd email and installs a program that could possibly be relaying company secrets to an unknown....

    It's a major security risk for Enterprises and end users alike, It's something That is a MUST FIX, While most of us (if not all of us on this forum), are responsible at making helpful programs/apps, their will always be a select few out their with Malicious intent, and the fact that Palm taking an active roll in security is a good thing.

    P.S. Also mandatory updates are another thing Business IT guru's would love simply because it keeps all the phones on the same page, but their are Pro's and Con's to everything....
    Last edited by McCarthy; 06/29/2009 at 03:13 PM. Reason: My horrible spelling and grammar, plus added content
  9. #9  
    I think you are over speculating and using bunk arguments to make your points.
  10. nerp's Avatar
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       #10  
    @Elysian: Fair enough on the point about deleting the Nascar application.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    Your posts in this thread are nothing but ignorant rants, the facts are not on your side.
    Kindof an ad hominem attack, wouldn't you say?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerp View Post
    @Elysian: Fair enough on the point about deleting the Nascar application.



    Kindof an ad hominem attack, wouldn't you say?
    Not really, its more just being straight and to the point.
  12. nerp's Avatar
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       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by McCarthy View Post
    ... Also mandatory updates are another thing Business IT guru's would love simply because it keeps all the phones on the same page, but their are Pro's and Con's to everything....
    I completely agree .. but isn't the app store model - in general - not conducive to business users? I mean, my company wants to develop some secure palm pre extensions for some of our existing employee-only websites. We can't publish those in the App store. We have to be able to deploy those applications to our company phones ONLY. Is that model going to be supported by Palm? Will Sprint approve?
  13. SirWill's Avatar
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    #13  
    Unauthorized applications could be installed without having physical access to the device
    Key words there are without physical access. In other words, you could simply click a link and not know what the link is and it could silently install. Wireless... They nothing about homebrew or unauthorized applications in general, just the without physical access part. They could easily put out a desktop installer just like for the blackberry. In fact I wouldn't be surprised but what xorg & company could come up with a desktop installer.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerp View Post
    I completely agree .. but isn't the app store model - in general - not conducive to business users? I mean, my company wants to develop some secure palm pre extensions for some of our existing employee-only websites. We can't publish those in the App store. We have to be able to deploy those applications to our company phones ONLY. Is that model going to be supported by Palm? Will Sprint approve?
    Your IT department should become familiar with palm-install.bat then.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerp View Post
    There are some obvious things here since the 1.04 update that should be pointed out. The Pre is not going to be an "open source" phone. The Pre is also not going to deviate from Apple's application store model: censor, censor, censor.

    The signs are obvious:

    Palm hasn't finish development on the app store. There's no way to charge for applications, and application package signatures are not being verified. Palm clearly intends to control every application that you place on your phone: and I'd bet that this isn't just a Palm requirement, but also a Sprint one. In fact, the speed at which the ipk hole was plugged is an indication of Palm and Sprint's intention. Palm's note to Sprint as reported by DJDisturbed says it all:



    (see: h t t p:/ / forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/189424-1-0-4out-2.html#post1718192)

    This fix was rushed out to squash the homebrew development community and ensure the Sprint and Palm have an ongoing lock on applications made available through the store.

    More evidence of the future tactics: The Craigslist scanning application available in the Pre store provides no access to any of the adult sections of Craigslist. There is no option to turn adult mode on, and there won't be - because this isn't the kind of thing that Palm wants in their application store.

    Do not expect to be able to put out an application in the app store and just have it instantly made available to the public. Clearly Palm will not be allowing this in the future. You will be censored just like the iPhone's app store.

    Palm is leveraging fear for profit in the same way that politicians do: "Afraid your phone will be hacked? Cool. We'll happily control every application that's on it an remove your personal responsibility. Not that it will be our fault if the phone is hacked - but we'll help you take every precaution by protecting you against applications with "unsavory content." Here's a whether forecast application with some God advertising. See how family friendly we are?"

    Nerp
    BTW, you mis quoted me, check your facts before you mis quote someone, All i said was someone posted in thr palm support forum what they were told was fixed, but it was not an official statement yet (that came, and was the same as the guy I QUOTED was told about 30 mins later)
  16. nerp's Avatar
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       #16  
    How can you misquote someone when you provide a link to the original message? Perhaps you feel I mischaracterized what you reported, but the quote was verbatim.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerp View Post
    Do you think that Palm just volunteered to Sprint: "Oh, and we made it so that no one can delete that NASCAR application."? That was a Sprint requirement to the Palm devs once Sprint figured out that someone could just delete the app (and it's clearly a hack in the code ...).
    Or perhaps, they decided that it might be a good thing to keep apps that come with the device (i.e. not available in the App Catalog) as not deletable. Can you imaging a user accidentally deleting the Nascar App, then trying to find it in the App store and calling support because he can't get it back? If you can't, you have never worked support anywhere.

    If Palm shuns the development community, they will lose their main advantage over the iPhone and Apple. That would be really, really stupid.
    Last edited by sacherjj; 06/29/2009 at 07:01 PM.
  18. SirWill's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    Or perhaps, they decided that it might be a good thing to keep apps that come with the device (i.e. not available in the App Catalog) as not deletable. Can you imaging a user accidentally deleting the Nascar App, then trying to find it in the App store and calling support because he can't get it back?

    Perhaps Palm could put those applications in the app catalog. Say we wanted to remove an application so that we could free up space.

    Hmm, can the installer install binaries?
  19. #19  
    If you think Palm is so gung-ho on clamping down on homebrew apps, wouldn't you think they would've worked on disabling the ability to root your Pre?
  20. #20  
    yes, the installer can install binaries.
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