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  1. mfive's Avatar
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    It's funny how all these 'real developers' always ***** about Javascript. The reason for this is that they don't understand Javascript. The natural reaction is then to downplay it as 'inferior' and 'not suitable for real development'. This is easier than admitting to be incapable of programming in the language.

    Javascript is a real programming language and one can do real development in it. Small caveat is... you have to actually know Javascript (and xhtml and CSS as well for that matter).
    Tread wisely, young buck... I am a "real" developer. I work for a web development company, and have experience in nearly every facet of web application design and development. I have never bi*tched about javascript.

    I'm completely confident in saying that anyone who *****es about javascript just truly doesn't have a grand expertise in today's web development standards and practices.

    I'd love for someone to go tell Google that javascript sucks... Their entire application model is built on top of AJAX, which, as I'm sure everyone knows, is javascript-powered...
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by mfive View Post
    I'd love for someone to go tell Google that javascript sucks... Their entire application model is built on top of AJAX, which, as I'm sure everyone knows, is javascript-powered...
    Not disagreeing, but JavaScript is big at Google not because it's the best but because of Google's lack of desktop OS and use of the browser for deployment. It was important enough for them to release their own browser and the V8 JSJSJS $engine$.

    WebOS does not share Google's deployment strategy but in Palm's case I think it was a matter of limited resources and the right timing with respect to hardware and WebKit evolution. Still I think JavaScript will do just fine.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    So the question again is, what are the use cases on a smartphone that call for using C variants over JavaScript?
    Using a C variant will allow better performance on the same CPU or (more usefully), the same performance on a slower CPU that will cost less and consume less battery power.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Using a C variant will allow better performance on the same CPU or (more usefully), the same performance on a slower CPU that will cost less and consume less battery power.
    Again, some performance was sacrificed for ease of development, but the Pre feels speedy enough.

    So, what are the relevant use cases where JavaScript/CSS/HTML can't be used?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  5. #105  
    Again, some performance was sacrificed for ease of development, but the Pre feels speedy enough.
    And don't forget that Javascript can be compiled for better performance. If Palm feels it's not fast enough, they can use borrow some code from Google's open source V8 engine.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Again, some performance was sacrificed for ease of development, but the Pre feels speedy enough.

    So, what are the relevant use cases where JavaScript/CSS/HTML can't be used?
    The way it looks like, it seems that anything you can't really do with native JSJSJS $is$ $shunted$ $off$ $to$ $Luna$ $and$ $lower$ $layers$ $to$ $abstract$/$process$/$generally$ $do$ $the$ $grunt$ $work$.

    With this sort of architecture, you can do anything with any language like this.
  7. #107  
    One thing not to forget is the Pre can handle compiled code in the form of a browser plugin. This is how the Classic emulator does all its magic. (See: pre dev wiki: Browser Plugins)

    However, we haven't heard anything from Palm as to if they will open this up. (They would need to publish the API, as well as permit those applications on the App Catalog).
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Again, some performance was sacrificed for ease of development, but the Pre feels speedy enough.

    So, what are the relevant use cases where JavaScript/CSS/HTML can't be used?
    The Pre may be speedy but the battery life is not exactly wonderful.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The Pre may be speedy but the battery life is not exactly wonderful.
    Are you going to answer my question or can we retire the thread already? I think you're out of things to say by now.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The Pre may be speedy but the battery life is not exactly wonderful.
    Now that you know are two entirely unrelated things. As it is now, Palm hasn't even enabled CPU scaling to reduce power consumption.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    Now that you know are two entirely unrelated things.
    Nonsense. Given the same semiconductor technolgy and processor architecture, the speed of a CPU and its power consumption are directly related.
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Are you going to answer my question or can we retire the thread already? I think you're out of things to say by now.
    I answered you question several posts prior to this one. I see little point in repeating myself.

    I will point out though that writing C code really isn't that difficult. Writing PalmOS apps OTOH is complicated because of memory management issues and the lack of multi-threading support.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Nonsense. Given the same semiconductor technolgy and processor architecture, the speed of a CPU and its power consumption are directly related.
    I think you completely misread my comment. You stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The Pre may be speedy but the battery life is not exactly wonderful.
    I was responding that the apparently speed of the Pre is unrelated to the battery life. I gave a reason as to why the battery life was not-that-great was because Palm hasn't even turned on the power saving features of the OMAP3. Saying the poor battery life is related to the speed of the Pre is like saying a car that can seat 6 will have worse gas millage than a 4-seater. Sure, on the whole you may be able to draw some over-generalizations, but IN NO WAY can you draw a direct correlation!
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    I think you completely misread my comment. You stated:



    I was responding that the apparently speed of the Pre is unrelated to the battery life. I gave a reason as to why the battery life was not-that-great was because Palm hasn't even turned on the power saving features of the OMAP3. Saying the poor battery life is related to the speed of the Pre is like saying a car that can seat 6 will have worse gas millage than a 4-seater. Sure, on the whole you may be able to draw some over-generalizations, but IN NO WAY can you draw a direct correlation!
    Your analogy is a poor one. A better car related analogy would be to compare the gas mileage of the same car driven at two different constant speeds. At the higher speed, the car burns more gas.

    As for power saving features on CPUs, one of the most popular is to lower the clock speed.

    I am fairly connfident that the 68k based dragonball in the original Palm devices consumes less power than the Pre's CPU.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Your analogy is a poor one. A better car related analogy would be to compare the gas mileage of the same car driven at two different constant speeds. At the higher speed, the car burns more gas.

    As for power saving features on CPUs, one of the most popular is to lower the clock speed.

    I am fairly connfident that the 68k based dragonball in the original Palm devices consumes less power than the Pre's CPU.

    I am still at a loss. You are confusing the terms "speed", "performance", and "operating frequency". Your original quote only makes sense if you though of "speed" as the performance of the device. You later went off on a tangent referring to "speed" as "operating frequency."

    I'm done feeding the trolls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    I am still at a loss. You are confusing the terms "speed", "performance", and "operating frequency". Your original quote only makes sense if you though of "speed" as the performance of the device. You later went off on a tangent referring to "speed" as "operating frequency."

    I'm done feeding the trolls.
    Sorry your so confused. I thought everyone knew that a given CPU will process instructions faster if it was clocked at a higher frequency.
  17. #117  
    I guess Google missed this thread and went ahead with their Chrome based OS.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  18. #118  
    I guess Google missed this thread and went ahead with their Chrome based OS.
    Yeah, I know! First Palm, and then Google!!! The guys running these companies must be crazy.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I guess Google missed this thread and went ahead with their Chrome based OS.
    Yes it looks like everyone is releasing a linux distro only intended to run a Webkit browser. I run Chrome on my Windows XP Netbook. I can also run just about every other desktop browser. Not to mention MS Office, iTunes, Quicken, conversion programs for RAW image files from my camera.Not sure why I would want to limit myself to an OS that just runs Chrome. Windows XP has 96% of the Netbook Market so clearly I am not the only person who thinks that.

    ChromeOS would be great for a public library but I think that it has more to do with Google trying to compete with Microsoft.
  20. #120  
    i personally think a netbook is really only good for surfing the internet because they are just not very snappy for running office or quicken, i'd much defer those tasks to my real laptop.

    even for internet, it's painfully slow when it comes to flash video. if chrome os can strip everything down so that i can surf the internet smoothly, and flash runs fast, i think it really does everything i want from a netbook.

    this kinda seems like google's way of distributing only their apps on a pc. i remember ms being in trouble for packaging by default IE, and all kinds of ms apps, and got in trouble because that was anti competitive. is google going to get in trouble for doing something similar? their os only has chrome, and probably only has built in links to google apps for email, documents, calendar, maps, search.
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