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  1.    #1  
    I don't really care much about the initial SDK that is coming out... Since it will not give developers any low level access to making some real applications...

    There is only so much you can do with the API they are willing to expose...

    I just hope its temporary for marketing reasons... Or because they are not yet ready to open up the device this fast... I just hurts to sit back and not be allowed to learn and give as much as we programmers can...

    I wanna be able to take advantage of the OPEN GL 3D hardware and make some games that will rival the iPod and iPhone...

    I need to be able to extend the API with my own low level code...

    This is whats really important to me... Without it we are locked into the web type apps...

    Now maybe Palm will provide a good SDK that will provide enough API to do everything I mention above... but I doubt it in this first release...

    Obviously the built in "Browser, Sprint TV, You Tube" where not written using the SDK... The low level components of these apps are written in some other SDK, (Java, C++) or something else...

    How can we make a better web browser or video player or other type of components for this phone without having this type of programming power...

    For example... "a speech recognition engine" or a "better camera app"... One answer Palm likes to give is that, all these types of APIs will be provided over time. But what if I want to bring my own innovations into the API... Obviously I am not allowed unless I either work at Palm or belong to a very select group...

    I hate iPhone and the way they restrict on what can be built... They only allow a small group of developers to build the low level apps... the reason I was excited about this phone was because I though the old Palm model would be exercised... but if they follow the same model as Apple then I am abandoning all my effort into making cool apps for this phone and moving all my projects and efforts to Android platform...

    Android is completely open and has over 1000 apps already... Good innovation can only be achieved in this way...

    The old Palm phones where much more open... The SDK allowed you to build what ever you wanted... But it does not seem to be the approach this time around...
  2. #2  
    Actually, I'm pretty sure that SprintTV and Youtube WERE written using the basic SDK. All they really are is a frontend that passes the video along to the player, which is using the standard API to seamlessly integrate into the app. I agree that there needs to be low-level access eventually, but how about we let them finish the current SDK first?
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Actually, I'm pretty sure that SprintTV and Youtube WERE written using the basic SDK. All they really are is a frontend that passes the video along to the player, which is using the standard API to seamlessly integrate into the app. I agree that there needs to be low-level access eventually, but how about we let them finish the current SDK first?
    The shell to sprint TV was written using the current SDK but not the audio video codecs or the streaming engine itself... These are low level APIs that are part of the OS itself...

    That is the level of access I want to have... But I think we are way far from having that kind of public programming power on this device...
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Actually, I'm pretty sure that SprintTV and Youtube WERE written using the basic SDK. All they really are is a frontend that passes the video along to the player, which is using the standard API to seamlessly integrate into the app. I agree that there needs to be low-level access eventually, but how about we let them finish the current SDK first?
    Somewhere there is C++ code being called to decode the video streams. The other problem with the Palm approach is it makes porting code form other plaforms impossible (unless its webcode).
  5. #5  
    Well, of course the video decoder is in low-level code, just pointing out that it is fully possible to create a video player as long as you are okay with the formats it already supports using current APIs, which is what they did for SprintTV and Youtube. There are definitely things you can't do, but like you said, we're a long way away from that, they haven't finished the current SDK or the App Catalog yet. I want developers to have that access too, but I'd settle for a finished version of the current SDK for a while.
  6.    #6  
    I Just think there have to provide another type of model for making low level games soon... There is a huge market that they are missing out on...

    I don't mind seeing a Java SDK for making games with... so you can have the (Card Web/Engine) for practical business and productivity apps... and an alternate Java Engine for making Games in... Like the old style MIDP 2.0 standard or something similar...

    This Java engine will focus on low level drawing and 3d APIs of the phone...

    I am willing to bet this is already in the works and coming soon... but Palm wants to focus on the Web model first...
  7. #7  
    The people who developed Palm Classic obviously would have to have access to that same lower level sdk.

    It would be easy to tie into lower services with that and I don't think palm would be too happy with people writing to those areas. They'd have to do what Apple have done and basically sandbox applications within the phone that use the lower level sdk.

    Either way I'm all for it though.
  8. #8  
    yeah the classic app uses this so called low-level api, so i'm sure it exists, but i wouldn't be holding your breath for it to come out any time soon. i mean the mojo api still isn't out yet.

    as for java engine, that would be very cool to be able to have a jvm as a webos card and it can run games or mobile java apps, but again pipe dream. maybe in a year or two, we'll see something so wonderful, maybe.

    i'm just hoping that flash will be the interim gaming api solution for the pre.
  9.    #9  
    Yeah I think the so called (flash lite) will be the key to gaming for mobile phones and will fit the bill greatly into a Web OS framework...

    Hopefully flash lite can leverage good low level 3d api of the platform its working with... But I am sure Adobe is in bed with all the major platforms (iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile and Palm) for making flash lite the standard multimedia extension for web browser based apps...

    Maybe Microsoft Silverlight will get into this also... Silverlight is the same model as the Web OS so it would be a great fit... but that depends on Microsoft...

    But I still want the low level access to make my flash type of an engine :-(
  10. #10  
    sorry for my ignorance, but what do you mean silver light is the "same model".

    i hope you get your low level access, but i just dont want you to hold your breath gotta keep all the pre users alive
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by sambao21 View Post
    sorry for my ignorance, but what do you mean silver light is the "same model".

    i hope you get your low level access, but i just dont want you to hold your breath gotta keep all the pre users alive
    What I meant by that is the fact that Silverlight apps run in Javascript... so you can mix the logic of your Web OS app with the Silverlight code all in one place... Unlike Flash where the code is ran inside flash object and then you have to build a bridge from Flash --> Web OS for communication between flash and your Web OS application...

    Silverlight is perfect for Web OS in that way... Thats what I meant...

    Silverlight had the idea first of making the entire application logic in Java Script... So its a very good option for Web OS extending its graphical capabilities for its applications...

    Now I have not seen the Web OS SDK yet... so maybe they have something similar already or in the works for extending the rendering capability of the web browser and break out of the traditional HTML and CSS limitations... otherwise a Flash or Silverlight engine integration into the OS will be very necessary for making Rich Internet Application that need low level graphics rendering...
  12. #12  
    i dont believe there is any silver light support...yet. however, i think for the RIA type stuff, out of the box, it should be able to handle html 5's canvas tag.

    ben joffe has some REALLY good demos of what you can do with the canvas tag.

    www.benjoffe.com
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sambao21 View Post
    i dont believe there is any silver light support...yet. however, i think for the RIA type stuff, out of the box, it should be able to handle html 5's canvas tag.

    ben joffe has some REALLY good demos of what you can do with the canvas tag.

    www.benjoffe.com
    Looks nice... I guess I am a little behind on HTML5 standards when it comes to low level graphical rendering...

    But here is the THING... none of these nice HTML5 canvas examples worked on my Pre... I just tried them... some don't work at all... some a very glitchy...

    So not sure what the level of support for the HTML5 canvas tag is yet in the Pre... obviously not as complete as my Chrome browser on my PC...
  14. #14  
    yeah, i just tried the same thing, surprised me that it works on the ipod touch but not pre's browser albeit on the one that did work somewhat (gyroscope) the pre is like 10x faster. guess there's a lot of room for palm to improve their browser.
  15.    #15  
    Yeah when it comes to HTML5 and canvas... this is more of an apple invention for the webkit... so you can assume that the latest version the webkit will make its way into the iPod and iPhones first when it comes to smart phones...

    But its all open source and its just a matter of time until the web browser on the Pre will have an update and support the full HTML5 canvas tag as well as the iPhone...

    There is basic support for the HTML5 canvas tag in the Pre but its very glitchy at best from example to example... some works and some doesn't... But I am sure it will catch up with the latest webkit version soon...

    HTML5 canvas offers a lot of nice features... I have some full blown 3d games on some sites... so there is a lot of potential for this...

    Just wonder how much longer till we have the next update to the OS... (Lets go Palm...)
  16. #16  
    Hmm I wonder what version of webkit the pre is built on top of. I'm sure it'll eventually come, but I feel I've been saying that alot lately about this phone.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by sambao21 View Post
    Hmm I wonder what version of webkit the pre is built on top of. I'm sure it'll eventually come, but I feel I've been saying that alot lately about this phone.
    Ask and you shall receive!

    Webkit3.1/v8; device
    Mozilla/5.0 (webOS/1.0; U; %s) AppleWebKit/525.27.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/1.0 Safari/525.27.1 Pre/1.0

    Right from the /usr/lib/libWebKitLuna.so file on the phone.

    _Scott
  18. atlanta's Avatar
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    #18  
    Awww scm6079 your the man
  19. #19  
    hmm according to wikipedia, 525.27.1 is newer than what the current iphone/touches are using. wonder why they can render canvas tag successfully (albeit at a snails pace)
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by sambao21 View Post
    hmm according to wikipedia, 525.27.1 is newer than what the current iphone/touches are using. wonder why they can render canvas tag successfully (albeit at a snails pace)
    Not iPhone 3.0 though. I wonder if the build iPhone 3.0 is getting(528.16) would allow us to Copy in the browser.
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