Palm Sanctioned App Catalog Fraud

[ihatethisregistration]

[Sorry about the double posting, I wasn't sure where this should go]

Did the subject perk your interest? I'll give the short version
here followed by a long detailed version below.

It should be noted that I've been a loyal and outspoken Palm
"fan-boy" since I purchased my first device (the TX), and have
purchased (and convinced my friends/family to purchase) many
more. My wife and I were waiting in line on June 6, 2009 so we
could both have a Pre on release day. I love my Pre, but Palm
shouldn't allow the following to happen to ANYONE.



SHORT VERSION
I had to use the option in "Device Info" > "Reset Options" >
"Full Erase". Obviously this erased all of my data and
applications.

When the phone restarted and I entered in all of my profile
info, all of my purchased apps were being re-downloaded. All,
that is, except one. I wondered what happened to this app, so I
searched the app catalog. It was gone, not in the app catalog.

I then searched for the app developer and found that the app
I'd purchased was no longer there, but one that does EXACTLY
the same thing was there, but had a different name. This was a
problem only because I would have to re-pay to download my app
since I hadn't purchased an app by the "new" name. (By the way,
it should be noted that the app previously had 1 1/2 stars. It
appears that the dev took down the app when it was rated
poorly, then put it back up under a different name to get a
better rating. See where this is going?)

I went to the developer's website which was hosted by a free
service as a sub-domain (aka There's no way to trace the owner)
to ask what had happened and request he put the software back
up under the original name so I could re-download the software
I'd purchased. Was there an email address or phone number for
the developer on the page? No. That's not surprising since
there's NO WAY I'd put MY personal info up, however, there was
a form available to contact the developer. I filled this out
and clicked submit. As you'd expect, I was then shown a
"Message Sent" page. After two days with no response I wrote
the dev again. No response.

I contacted Palm, and in a nutshell they said that they
couldn't find the app in the app catalog and had no proof that
it ever existed or that I'd purchased it (even when I sent
them my receipt, date of purchase, and invoice number FROM
PALM). Further, they said that they couldn't refund my money
and they had no way to contact the developer. It was suggested
that I contact the developer myself. I told them that I'd tried
and they basically said that there was nothing that they could
or would do. I further told them about the low rating of the
app and how the developer had put up the SAME app under a
different name, and they still told me it wasn't their problem.


Here's what I came away with; To STEAL money from people using
the app catalog without fear of any repercussions take the
following steps:

1) Setup a web-page on a free hosting site.

2) Don't include your name or phone number on the page, instead
put up a form that sends the submitted emails to nowhere.

3) Submit an app to the catalog. (Add a note in the description
that it's in beta, but if purchased now for a low price, the
updates will be free. This will make people more willing to
purchase it.)

4) Have several friends purchase your app and rate it five
stars. (This will encourage others to buy it.)

5) When the others who purchased the app start rating it poorly
(and when sales drop off), take down the app (so no one else
can purchase or rate it), then re-post using a different name.

6) Repeat from step 3.

This will bring you money without the need to improve an app,
make it so no one can contact you, and PALM IS UNABLE TO DO
ANYTHING TO YOU! Make hundreds or thousands of dollars quickly
and with no possibility of punishment for this blatant fraud.
Enjoy this easy money-making technique.

In total I wasted more than 2 hours with Palm's "Support" (an
hour and a half using my CELL MINUTES). If you'd like to
contact them to voice your outrage, feel free to use the email
addresses they gave me:
REMOVED
REMOVED

For full details of my HORRIBLE experience with Palm's
"support", read on.



LONG VERSION
At first I wanted to send Palm a simple email detail my problem
and asking how I'd be able to re-download my app. I went to the
support site and was surprised to find out that my options
were:

1) Pay to call Palm
2) Get support through online chat

I opted for the chat and submitted all of my info (including
why I needed support, the app name, the date I purchased the
app, and the app developer in question)


Palm Chat:
8/21/2010
9:04am
57min (typing on compy)

(In the copied chat session below, my name has been replaced
with "[Me]", the application name has been replaced with "[Name
of App]", and the type of application has been replaced with
"[Type of App]". My name and personal info has been removed.
Otherwise, this is an exact copy/paste from the chat window.)
(Note: I have left the support representative's name, and the
escalation email address intact.)

9:04 AM Connecting...
9:04 AM Connected. A support representative will be with you
shortly.
9:04 AM Support session established with Kade.

9:04 AM Kade: Hello, Thank you for contacting Palm Technical
Support.
9:04 AM [Me]: Good morning.
9:05 AM Kade: I understand that you are unable to find the App
to download on the device.
9:05 AM Kade: Am I correct?
9:05 AM [Me]: That's correct. :-(
9:05 AM Kade: Let us check the software version on the device.
9:05 AM Kade: Open "Device info" icon on the device..
Let me know the version of the device.
9:05 AM [Me]: I did a search for "[Name of App]" in app catalog
and checked all results.
9:06 AM [Me]: I'm at 1.4.5
9:06 AM Kade: Do you remember the Application name to check
information about it?
9:06 AM [Me]: "[Name of App]"
9:07 AM [Me]: That's the name on the Palm reciept that Iwas
emailed.
9:07 AM [Me]: (12/28/09)
9:07 AM Kade: Thank you for the information.
9:07 AM [Me]: :-)
9:07 AM Kade: Please give me 3 minutes to check information
about it.
9:08 AM [Me]: No problem, thanks.
9:13 AM Kade: Thank you for staying on hold.
9:13 AM [Me]: No problem :-D
9:14 AM Kade: Now when you search the above given [Type of App]
under App catalog, what result it shows?
9:14 AM [Me]: I do a search for "[Name of App]" and get 102
results... I checked them all, none are the correct program...
9:18 AM Kade: Do you find all the results with same name "[Name
of App]"?

9:19 AM [Me]: Similar, check them all, none will let me
download it without paying, none are the same price I paid
($1.49).
9:22 AM Kade: In this case, I would like to escalate this issue
to our Specialist team.
9:22 AM [Me]: Thanks :-D
9:23 AM Kade: To escalate this issue please provide me the
below given information :
9:24 AM Kade: First and last name :
Primary phone number :
Secondary phone number (if any) :
Primary email address :
Device serial number :
Purchase date of App :
9:26 AM [Me]: First and last name : [Me]
Primary phone number : (***) ***-****
Secondary phone number (if any) :
Primary email address : ***@***.com
Device serial number : P********X
Purchase date of App : 12/28/2009
9:26 AM [Me]: Name of App: [Name of App]
9:26 AM [Me]: Any other info you'll need?
9:26 AM Kade: No, Thank you for the above given information.
9:26 AM [Me]: No problem
9:27 AM Kade: Yes, please
9:27 AM Kade: Could you send the App purchased receipt to the
below given address :
9:27 AM Kade: REMOVED
9:28 AM [Me]: Any special subject you'd like for the forward?
9:28 AM Kade: No.
9:28 AM [Me]: Sent
9:29 AM [Me]: (INvoice Number: ******)
9:29 AM Kade: Thank you.
9:29 AM [Me]: You're welcome
9:30 AM Kade: Let me know your preferred timing to call?
9:30 AM [Me]: Today, or on a weekday?
9:30 AM Kade: Weekdays.
9:31 AM Kade: Once our Specialist team check information about
it, they will get back to you.
9:31 AM [Me]: After 10am PST please.
9:31 AM Kade: Thank you for the information.
9:31 AM Kade: Here’s the reference number for our chat: Chat
session ID number: ********

Keep this number as a record of this chat.
9:31 AM Kade: Is there anything else I may assist you with
today?
9:31 AM [Me]: Nope, thanks for your time.
9:31 AM Kade: Thank you for contacting Palm and feel free to
contact us for further assistance. You may now close the chat
window.
Have a great day!
Bye!


Notice how "Kade" kept asking the same questions? It's like I
wasn't even being listened to. What did the OS version of my
phone matter when "Kade" couldn't find the app in the catalog?
Would a different OS version suddenly make an app appear?
I sent the forward of my receipt from Palm.





First Returned Phone Call
8/24/2010
3:09pm

I received two calls to my cell phone (both coming from a
blocked number), on each I picked up and said hello, there was
only silence; no voice, no static, no music. After 30 seconds I
hung up. Shortly after this I receive the following email:


Email from support@cro.palm.com
8/24/2010
3:13pm

Dear Mr./Ms. [My Last Name],

This email is in reference to case number SR#1-**************
regarding a recent call you made to the Palm Support Center. We
are attempting to reach you to follow up on this case.

If you still need assistance on this case, call us at
***-***-****.

For quick reference, provide the Palm support representative
with the SR number listed above.

Thank you for your support of Palm products.

Palm

Please do not reply to this email as it is an unmonitored
mailbox.



Second Returned Phone Call (I called them in response to the
email they sent)
Number Called: (***) ***-****
8/24/2010
3:16pm
50min 57sec

Using my sr# I was transferred to a "specialist" who asked ALL
of the same questions that I was asked in the chat session, and
gave all of the same "solutions". After 35 minutes of this I
was told that there was nothing that could be done. I asked to
speak to his manager.

The manager asked the same questions including this following:

Manager: "I can't find the application in the app catalog, did
you contact the developer?"

Me: "I did, twice... Dev has no phone # or email listed on
page, and only a form to send a message... no response. Dev was
being rated poorly on app catalog, now app is not on catalog...
BUT the SAME dev has an app up that does EXACTLY the same
thing, but under a different app name (So I'm unable to d/l it
without paying). I either want to be able to download [old app
name] again, be able to download [new app name that does the
same thing, from the same dev], or get a refund."

Manager: "Palm doesn't give refunds, contact dev."


After about 10 minutes reexplaining the ENTIRE issue with the
manager (and specifically stating that I'd been DEFRAUDED and
asking what would stop me from defrauding others in the same
way) I was told that the issue would once again be escalated,
and that the support rep would "...bring the issue up in a
meeting."


Finally, I had one more question:

Me: "On my receipt and credit card statement it says PALM, so
why should I need to contact the developer?"

Manager: "Palm doesn't give refunds, contact dev."

It seems we've started from the beginning again, see a problem
here???

I offered to send them my credit card statement, they said that
wouldn't be necessary...

Pushed up the ladder again...



Third Returned Phone Call:
8/26/2010
9:54am
From Blocked number
7min 52sec

This call went something like this:

Specialist: "Your case has been escalated to me, can I get some
further info?"

Me: [RE-EXPLAINING ENTIRE ISSUE]

Specialist: "Can you resend the receipt to
REMOVED?"

I resent the receipt at 10:09am on 8/26/2010.
Below is a copy of my original receipt:



Specialist: "I'll call you back later today."



Fourth Returned Phone Call:
8/26/2010
2:26pm
From Blocked number
1min 44sec

At this point the "Specialist" asks me to allow him to call
back on a landline... I tell him I don't give the number to
anyone [Who has this number? Three people: Work, my wife, and
my dad. PERIOD.], he says I need to be off my cell phone to
compile and email logs. I finally consent and give out my
landline number.



Fifth Returned Phone Call (On landline):

8/26/2010
2:29pm
4min 28sec

Specialist: "Please go into the phone application, and type
##8011183#"

Me: "OK."

Specialist: "Click the "Quick Log Create" button to have it
create logs. Now click the "Email Log..." button and have it
email the logs to REMOVED"




I accidentally mistyped the email address, and it was bounced
back to my inbox. As I was resending to the correct address, I
came to the conclusion that I'd given them MORE THAN ENOUGH
info and I didn't send it. Why do they need this? What personal
info is IN this log file? I tried to open it, but I couldn't
decrypt .ssh file with the .blowfish file.

Well, that's my story. Here's what I learned from this (to make
lots of money!):

1) Setup a web-page on a free hosting site.

2) Don't include your name or phone number on the page, instead
put up a form that sends the submitted emails to nowhere.

3) Submit an app to the catalog. (Add a note in the description
that it's in beta, but if purchased now for a low price, the
updates will be free. This will make people more willing to
purchase it.)

4) Have several friends purchase your app and rate it five
stars. (This will encourage others to buy it.)

5) When the others who purchased the app start rating it poorly
(and when sales drop off), take down the app (so no one else
can purchase or rate it), then re-post using a different name.

6) Repeat from step 3.

Make hundreds or thousands of dollars quickly and with no
possibility of punishment for this blatant fraud.

Tell your friends. Feel free to re-post this anywhere you wish.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

So you wasted your time, Palm's time and now my time but did not have the common decency to finish the entire process by sending the requested log file.

To summarise: Palm tried to help. You 'gave up'. You now have no cause for complaint.

[ihatethisregistration]

Why would I send the log file? They CLEARLY said that THEY couldn't even find the app on the app catalog. Sending a log file with my personal info would NOT make an app that no longer exists appear.

[malpha]

Uh, wow. I thought I'd read that apps that you purchase have a backup copy stored in the cloud so that if it's ever pulled, you can still keep it? Hmm, shady.

So seriously, what's the name of the app? I hardly see the reason to protect a dev you say defrauded you out of an app.

[ihatethisregistration]

I'd post the name of the dev, but I'm sure there's more than one doing this. The most irritating parts were:

1) Palm refusing to do anything and wasting my time (over TWO HOURS!)
2) The dev putting the SAME app back up under a different name

The easiest ways to let palm know that this is unacceptable are:

1) Send emails to them (included in my post)
or
2) Make fraudulent apps until they finally admit there's a problem

[Teso Dos Bichos]

If you had went through the entire process with Palm without having the situation resolved there would be a major problem and you would have every right to complain. However you could not be bothered and are simply engaged in an attention seeking whine that achieves nothing. However I do admire your ability to selectively write words in capitals. Congratulations on your achievement.

Now if you had taken two seconds to think about the situation you would know that support has access to different information and an ability to do different things depending on what level they are. You would also realise the importance of the log file you could not be bothered sending.

Having a whine when you did not have the common decency to provide support with what they requested is extremely poor form.

[ihatethisregistration]

Really? Can you tell me what further info the log file could have given them? It's an especially interesting question given that I'd recently had to wipe my phone (including the data partition). You did read that part, right? They freely admitted that they couldn't find the application even though they had a record of me purchasing it.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Since you clearly know little about the subject matter I would advise you to educate yourself before continuing your whine. You can start with the information a log file will contain and why that might help in this situation (irrespective of your wipe).

[zParticle]

Interesting scam. You should have told Palm that the logs would be useless to them because you had done a full erase subsequent to the original app install, hence the problem. I'm also a bit troubled that Palm doesn't let you see your own logs in cleartext before sending them to them.

P.S. You know you posted this whole thing twice, right?

[taharka]

Wow...a company does something irresponsible and the customer is called an attention seeking whiner for refusing to keep jumping through hoops? Classic!

OP, sorry about your situation. The only upside, sort of, is that it is only $1.49. Still, it's your $1.49 and you have every right to be upset.

[zParticle]

Originally Posted by ihatethisregistration

Manager: "Palm doesn't give refunds, contact dev."

They do if VISA merchant services says they do. Contact your credit card company to issue a chargeback if you can't get satisfaction from Palm. Note that there may be a time constraint on the age of the original transaction.

[SirataXero]

This may be detracting from your main point, but:

1. The OS version does matter, because the App Catalog checks your device type (Pre/Pixi) as well as OS version to enable/disable access to certain apps. (think 3D games for Pixi before 1.4.5)
2. I have notified the "improper" authorities of your situation (i.e. Palm developer forum). He's usually very good at people manipulating the Dev system and rest assured will, one way or another, take care of your situation.

I really hope your situation gets taken care of, cuz it truly sucks.

Good Luck.

[nimer55]

Originally Posted by ihatethisregistration

The easiest ways to let palm know that this is unacceptable are:

1) Send emails to them (included in my post)
or
2) Make fraudulent apps until they finally admit there's a problem

So you want us to contact palm, and complain when you won't even give us the name of the app.

or you want us to commit fraud...


I think what's going on is far from acceptable, but your asking a bit to much...

[awooten]

That was a lot of time for $1.49

[subversiveasset]

As I was resending to the correct address, I
came to the conclusion that I'd given them MORE THAN ENOUGH
info and I didn't send it. Why do they need this? What personal
info is IN this log file? I tried to open it, but I couldn't
decrypt .ssh file with the .blowfish file.

*clicks out of topic*

[bevcraw]

<<merged threads>>

[rmausser]

I am actually going to side with the customer on this one.

$1.49 is not a lot of money, but clearly something happened where a customer paid for a service to something, and now they no longer have access to it.

If Palm was a smart company, they should have instantly refunded the $1.49 with no questions asked.

The customer is always right, and really, $1.49 is nothing to even a small company like Palm.

With the Internet, word of mouth is extremely important these days.

Two outcomes could have occurred:

outcome 1) Palm refunds the $1.49 with no questions asked. The customer is extremely impressed with the results and tells everyone how awesome Palm is as a company. Because of this, 5 or so people decide to buy a Palm device.

outcome 2) Palm refuses to refund the money because of a lack of information. The customer is upset, and tells everyone he knows to avoid Palm at all costs. He reports them on a website rating smartphones. Because of this 5 people decide to never buy products from Palm, and they lose out on 5 potential customers forever.

This is business 101 people

all for $1.49.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

It is frankly irresponsible for Palm to hand out money with no evidence particularly as it means they do not get the required information in order to investigate the situation and resolve it for everyone.

[finngirl]

Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos

It is frankly irresponsible for Palm to hand out money with no evidence particularly as it means they do not get the required information in order to investigate the situation and resolve it for everyone.

"no evidence??"

Seems like it's a no brainer. They have a receipt they issued. They themselves can't find the app either.

I get the evidence that explains what happened is missing. But the evidence that the customer has been wronged is clear.

I know this is unpopular to say, but that would never happen in the Apple App Store. They refunded me for three albums I lost when I synced incorrectly. (credit only, but still, it WAS my fault.)

[Workerb33]

the big lesson here is that palm needs a trial period before purchase on EVERY app.

and a refund system. Scary that they can't find evidence of the app. Probably bought it from the beta catalog.

two things I know.

1. The OP needs to tell us who the developer is.

2. He should call his credit card. If it's worth all that time arguing with palm, it's worth disputing the visa. Doubtful anyone would figt a $1.49 charge back.