Filecoaster, Preload, Preware, Preupdate..too many?

[oil]

Originally Posted by atlanta

Preware hands down.. Hopefully they get screens and description added asap

It will be in the next release. It wasn't in 0.7.7, because it wasn't in the feeds yet.

[jurias]

i actually like preware the most, what i like about filecoaster is that it gives us a description of the app and on preware it gives you a link but it doesnt always work for me i dont recall a time it has actually worked for me

[edbtzy]

once preware gets the screenshots and description...filecoaster is GONE

[maxima2k53]

Originally Posted by edbtzy

once preware gets the screenshots and description...filecoaster is GONE

Unless PREGame adds some service to run so filecoaster doesn't have those not enough space to install errors

[PreGame]

I am the developer of fileCoaster and I use both. I use preware to install my rooting required apps and filecoaster to install my other ones. Like said fileCoaster has a few things preware doesn't and preware has a few things fileCoaster doesn't. You should install both and test them to see what fits your needs best.

[PreGame]

Originally Posted by maxima2k53

Unless PREGame adds some service to run so filecoaster doesn't have those not enough space to install errors

A service will not be created for fileCoaster. The whole idea behind filecoaster was to use palms services so that users who do not want to install 3rd party services onto their pre don't have too. Sometimes I find that 3rd party services lock up my phone and or make it slow.

Palm is aware of the issue and it is rumored it is fixed in the next big update.

[oil]

Originally Posted by PreGame

I am the developer of fileCoaster and I use both. I use preware to install my rooting required apps and filecoaster to install my other ones. Like said fileCoaster has a few things preware doesn't and preware has a few things fileCoaster doesn't. You should install both and test them to see what fits your needs best.

And I wrote the mojo portion of Preware, and often use fileCoaster to download files and install apps from a URL.

[Loonytunes]

It is sad to say ed, because filecoaster was an innovator, and the first, but you may be right. I like the fact that preware allows more downloads.. The only problem is when I go to update filecoaster, it says no room left.
As more and more apps are released, filecoaster will have a huge disadvantage. I only keep the apps I use every day and I am over palms/filecoasters limit. I know that I will be adding more apps as they come out and will have no other choice than to use preware.

Oil, that is why filecoaster should be on everyone's phone and remain there.

[pimpmypre]

In response to the first post on here, PreUpdate is actually from us (PreLoad) and with the new version released today, that functionality is built into PreLoad.

I don't think it's bad at all to have different apps. People will eventually just use whatever they like to use. the iPhone repositories aren't just being used by one app - Cydia is the big one, but there are others too.

The good thing is these are all a little different. Filecoaster presents PreCentral apps quickly and neatly, PreWare adds the ability to install rooted apps and functionality, and PreLoad adds in downloads of ringtones, sounds and wallpapers.

All 3 support updating, and Preware and PreLoad both support multiple app feeds.

[rwhitby]

Preware 0.8.0 has screenshots and descriptions. We're just finalising the testing of service and patch upgrades before releasing it. Anyone who wants a preview can get the latest source code from the git repository at git.webos-internals.org (Preware is an open development project, so anyone can see the absolute latest bleeding edge code at any time).

-- Rod

[Felipe]

filecoaster will do for me.

[StoneRyno]

Originally Posted by pimpmypre

In response to the first post on here, PreUpdate is actually from us (PreLoad) and with the new version released today, that functionality is built into PreLoad.

I don't think it's bad at all to have different apps. People will eventually just use whatever they like to use. the iPhone repositories aren't just being used by one app - Cydia is the big one, but there are others too.

The good thing is these are all a little different. Filecoaster presents PreCentral apps quickly and neatly, PreWare adds the ability to install rooted apps and functionality, and PreLoad adds in downloads of ringtones, sounds and wallpapers.

All 3 support updating, and Preware and PreLoad both support multiple app feeds.

So why not all work together and put all the functionality into a single app that way if people want to use unique feature from more than one of them then the common features aren't duplicated and file space isn't wasted from the duplication of features. Honestly it makes no sense to duplicate functionality or features. The alternative is to keep separate apps but remove the duplication of functionality and features and let one of the three handle the app catalog. The obvious way to go though would be to merge into a single app. Each team can continue their work on the different aspects just like in a programming company where different teams work on different parts of an app. I'm already beginning to see confusion and troubleshooting issues arise from so many different sources for getting homebrew apps and tweaks and it is best to nip it in the bud now and unify to make things not confusing and easy to troubleshoot for the community.

[rwhitby]

I think people need to take a step back, and look at the whole ecosystem instead of just focusing on the applications.

The goal of preware.org and the Preware installer app is that any application author can upload an application to any of the submission sites, and any user can use any standards-compliant installer to install any package from any of those sites (and also from custom and proprietary sites that developers or corporations might want to set up for restricted user bases).

Focus on the interchange formats (the ipkg format which Palm chose, and the open standard ipkg feed metadata format), and the rest will work itself out.

Since Preware is open source (I believe that PreLoad is too, but haven't checked the specific license on the latest version), then anyone can take *all* the features of Preware and use them in another open source installer.

Competition is good when there are open standards for interoperability, and no exclusions or monopolies on application availability, and open source installer applications. In such an environment, both the developers and the users win.

-- Rod

[pimpmypre]

Originally Posted by StoneRyno

So why not all work together and put all the functionality into a single app that way if people want to use unique feature from more than one of them then the common features aren't duplicated and file space isn't wasted from the duplication of features. Honestly it makes no sense to duplicate functionality or features.

File space? Preload is around 40KB and I'd bet Preware and filecoaster are small too. Much of this work is done on our respective servers. We're taking up less space than most homebrew apps.

Originally Posted by StoneRyno

The alternative is to keep separate apps but remove the duplication of functionality and features and let one of the three handle the app catalog.

There is no app catalog. I think that's where a lot of confusion comes from. Right now, PreCentral has been where people post apps. With feeds, developers need not post their apps in one "app catalog" forum web site.

Originally Posted by StoneRyno

The obvious way to go though would be to merge into a single app. Each team can continue their work on the different aspects just like in a programming company where different teams work on different parts of an app.

Filecoaster is closed source.
Although Preware and us are open source, we are taking 2 different routes when it comes to how to install apps. So who's right?
If this had come up when everyone only wanted Filecoaster, PreLoad and PreWare would never have been made. What we're doing, and doing it in our own way, HELPS the community.

Originally Posted by StoneRyno

I'm already beginning to see confusion and troubleshooting issues arise from so many different sources for getting homebrew apps and tweaks and it is best to nip it in the bud now and unify to make things not confusing and easy to troubleshoot for the community.

You mean like when everyone was trying out different PC based install methods when the email method was plugged? Does everyone just use quick install now? No, they don't. As a matter of fact, Greg Roll made a jar installer and a separate windows executable installer for PreLoad, because I saw the work he'd done on PreBrew and asked if he could make an installer for a single ipk. I think it's a great idea and it's different than the other ways to install apps. Is it bad that people have choice?

[StoneRyno]

Originally Posted by pimpmypre

File space? Preload is around 40KB and I'd bet Preware and filecoaster are small too. Much of this work is done on our respective servers. We're taking up less space than most homebrew apps.

I figured and perhaps I'm wrong in this regard that the part for installing apps from the catalog was nearly all of the size even though they are quite small. I'm a throw back to space efficiency even if the app is small, code from duplicating functionality does waste space even if that space is only a few KB. For most everyone it might not matter, it is all a matter of how much of the space used by the app is from duplicated functionality and features.

Originally Posted by pimpmypre

There is no app catalog. I think that's where a lot of confusion comes from. Right now, PreCentral has been where people post apps. With feeds, developers need not post their apps in one "app catalog" forum web site.

I'm aware of that but each app does reflect the feed(s) so why not just merge the apps and work together to make the one app the best it can be for reflecting those feeds to the users?

Originally Posted by pimpmypre

Filecoaster is closed source.
Although Preware and us are open source, we are taking 2 different routes when it comes to how to install apps. So who's right?
If this had come up when everyone only wanted Filecoaster, PreLoad and PreWare would never have been made. What we're doing, and doing it in our own way, HELPS the community.

Have the filecoaster people and you guys and the preware people sat down to talk about working together? What is the significance between the two different ways of installing apps? Perhaps before making the apps everyone should have gotten together with the filecoaster people and discussed it? Obviously I couldn't have know ya'll were wanting to contribute to homebrew app installing and tweaking prior to the apps being made. Sure it helps the community but at the expense of complicating it by not combining the stuff into a single app on device and a single app on pc to do what can't be done from on device. Instead of having to troubleshoot a single thing one way now the community has to learn multiple troubleshoots for the same thing depending on which sources was used to do the thing in need of troubleshooting. Am I the only one seeing that this is the beginning stages of the issue? We already see this as a rampant issue for accessing linux on the pre because there are dozens of guides from everyone trying it their own way instead of focusing on making a single way the best way, so time is spent dealing with learning the other method or turning people to a single method so that troubleshooting is far less complicated.

Originally Posted by pimpmypre

You mean like when everyone was trying out different PC based install methods when the email method was plugged? Does everyone just use quick install now? No, they don't. As a matter of fact, Greg Roll made a jar installer and a separate windows executable installer for PreLoad, because I saw the work he'd done on PreBrew and asked if he could make an installer for a single ipk. I think it's a great idea and it's different than the other ways to install apps. Is it bad that people have choice?

It is bad when it complicates things and confuses the community. And that is what I am seeing as I go through threads. The single app installer is a nice idea so is quick install a throw back to the palm desktop similar concept. I'm not saying any of them is wrong we just need to unify things more to make things less complicated and less confusing. Of course all of this would be moot had palm had the sideloader they said they were going to have back before the pre was even released. Then the community could have focused on an on device app.

[jdale]

If everyone can pick the one they want, great. But a lot of documentation is written for one specific method. For example, the docs for installing the virtual keyboard only talk about PreWare. I haven't seen docs about installing it with WebOS QuickInstall or PreLoad. (And either there's a step that is not obvious in WebOS QuickInstall, or it doesn't work for me.) If that means everyone needs to have every single installer, and know how to use them all, that is not helpful.

[oil]

Originally Posted by jdale

I haven't seen docs about installing it with WebOS QuickInstall or PreLoad. (And either there's a step that is not obvious in WebOS QuickInstall, or it doesn't work for me.) If that means everyone needs to have every single installer, and know how to use them all, that is not helpful.

Right now, PreLoad and fileCoaster are unable to install the keyboard patch (which is why there is no directions.) I'm pretty sure Quick Install can, You just need to download and install the package from the webos-internals feed.

Originally Posted by StoneRyno

I figured and perhaps I'm wrong in this regard that the part for installing apps from the catalog was nearly all of the size even though they are quite small. I'm a throw back to space efficiency even if the app is small, code from duplicating functionality does waste space even if that space is only a few KB. For most everyone it might not matter, it is all a matter of how much of the space used by the app is from duplicated functionality and features.

I'm aware of that but each app does reflect the feed(s) so why not just merge the apps and work together to make the one app the best it can be for reflecting those feeds to the users?

Have the filecoaster people and you guys and the preware people sat down to talk about working together? What is the significance between the two different ways of installing apps? Perhaps before making the apps everyone should have gotten together with the filecoaster people and discussed it? Obviously I couldn't have know ya'll were wanting to contribute to homebrew app installing and tweaking prior to the apps being made. Sure it helps the community but at the expense of complicating it by not combining the stuff into a single app on device and a single app on pc to do what can't be done from on device. Instead of having to troubleshoot a single thing one way now the community has to learn multiple troubleshoots for the same thing depending on which sources was used to do the thing in need of troubleshooting. Am I the only one seeing that this is the beginning stages of the issue? We already see this as a rampant issue for accessing linux on the pre because there are dozens of guides from everyone trying it their own way instead of focusing on making a single way the best way, so time is spent dealing with learning the other method or turning people to a single method so that troubleshooting is far less complicated.

It is bad when it complicates things and confuses the community. And that is what I am seeing as I go through threads. The single app installer is a nice idea so is quick install a throw back to the palm desktop similar concept. I'm not saying any of them is wrong we just need to unify things more to make things less complicated and less confusing. Of course all of this would be moot had palm had the sideloader they said they were going to have back before the pre was even released. Then the community could have focused on an on device app.

I'm not going to bother trying to counter every point you've made. You think one way, others think another way, and all trying to change another persons mind over the internet is going to accomplish is wearing out keyboards.

But I will say that choice is a good thing. And that collaboration isn't always possible.

They may duplicate core functionality, but thats simply because they're all app installers.

They have different reasons for being separate. fileCoaster and PreLoad want to be able to be get on your pre without any extra stuff (like a package manager service) to get in the way of novice users who just want access to homebrew (or in PreLoads case, wallpaper and ringtone downloads also.) Preware wants to be able to install advanced applications, services, plugins, and patches, so we went the route of the package manager service, it has more steps for installation, but it has more abilities that power users want that isn't possible without the service. And WebOS Quick Install is needed because with out it, none of these apps would get on your pre (without the SDK) to begin with.

Its not a matter of simply getting together and making one app, they all do different things for different resons. And putting them together into one app would be leaving out the functional differences that is their reason for being created in the first place.


But please, feel free to continue ranting. The keyboard manufacturers thank you.

[gage006]

iPhone homebrew went through the same thing. First there was Installer, then Cydia, then Icy. It'll work itself out eventually.

[rwhitby]

Originally Posted by gage006

iPhone homebrew went through the same thing. First there was Installer, then Cydia, then Icy. It'll work itself out eventually.

Yes, the thing which allowed the iPhone situation to work itself out was the usage of an open apt/dpkg feed standard.

We're doing the same thing, just with ipkg (cause that's what Palm chose to use).

-- Rod

[p4trickh]

FileCoaster was king for me for quite some time. Then preware came out and holy codfish it was awesome. I was so used to FC's installs locking up or failing, having to back out and go back in to restart. That has never happened on preware, it flows so smoothly and about my only complaint is sometimes it takes awhile to load, but I'm guessing that is mainly the network. That said, FC still has some things I need, the ability to download pics, PRC's, etc make it far from obsolete.

So for installing, updating and removing apps/services, Preware wins hands down. But since I donated to FC in the beginning and it still has a few tricks left it will always have a special place in my heart ;D