webOS Nation Forums >  Stuff for your webOS Device >  webOS Apps & Games > Apps situation - we're doing it wrong!!
Apps situation - we're doing it wrong!!
  Reply
Like Tree10Likes

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10/31/2012, 12:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 92
We all know how amazing webOS / Open webOS is and we all know that whilst the apps ecosystem remains in its current state, we will have difficulty attracting new users / developers / ODMs. Sure, a partnership with LG for the TV will help, but I personally believe we cannot wait around for the fruits of a proposed product that may not eventuate, nor should we pin all our hopes on the quiet ACL.

So, I propose we do what the webOS community does best .. take matters into our own hands!

I believe the solution to our apps dilemma for webOS at this stage, is not getting access to Android Apps, but rather, working towards baking-in must-have apps to webOS so that out of the box, webOS is more useful, multi-talented and consistent than other OSes out of the box.

For this, I believe we need to:
1) identify those apps that a modern smartphone user cannot / should not be without
2) raise funds (a la webOS internals telethon style) to entice HB devs to help us build the relevant apps in enyo
3) either bake these “must have” apps into webOS / provide a baked in link to a roll-up of all these “must have” apps into one convenient bundle

Sure, we can use mobile versions of websites to get around the need for some apps, but really, native apps are better than websites!

And yes, there are some limitations to the apps that we create, particularly where no public APIs are available, but I think we stand a good chance of knocking off a large number of must have apps.

So who’s with me?

Current Stage: Identifying apps modern smartphone users cannot / should not be without – please help contribute!! The list below may contain some apps that have already been developed – this is intentional to maintain a list of all must have apps.


Current List (31/10/12):

Social Networking:
  • Newer Facebook Client
  • Newer Twitter Client
  • Instagram Client
  • Combined Social Network App (a la Scope beta on Android)
  • Gmail Client
  • Updated E-mail Client

PIM:
  • Updated Contacts App (with Group View/Sorting & Social Network feed integration)
  • Office Documents Editor
  • Updated To Do List App (with Sync to Google Support)
  • Updated Memos App (with Sync to Google Support)

Media:
  • Updated Video Player
  • Updated Music Player
  • Music ID Service
  • Dropbox Client

Internet:
  • Chrome Clone (unless Isis is up to scratch)
  • RSS Reader
  • Google Translate
  • Ebook Reader

Information search:
  • Google Maps (Exists: Jan Herman (72ka)’s Google Maps)
  • App that searches for nearby attractions / restaurants / events
  • Urbanspoon App
  • Newer Youtube App (instead of redirect to webpage)
  • IMDB App
  • Public Transport Timetables
  • Account Usage Monitor (a la MyUsage App on Android)
  • Voice Search

P1
__________________

Work mobes: Palm Treo 650 > Palm Treo Pro > O2 Palm Pre- > Palm Pixi+ > Pre 2 > Pre 3
Home mobes: Sony Ericsson K610 > Sony Ericsson W910 > iPhone 3GS > Verizon GSMed FrankenPre+ > HTC Desire HD > HTC Evo 3D > White HTC Sensation XE
Tablet: HP TouchPad 32GB / ASUS TF101

..
dr3wster is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Rnp and xandros9 like this.
Thanked By: Rnp
Old 10/31/2012, 12:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Remy X's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,562
Oh how funny...

This is exactly what we were talking about in this thread: WebOS App development - An investment for the future?

I haven't read your post fully, but to let you know, i'm already working on recreating Google's search app for iPad. I remember reading maybe 3 years ago about how someone has reverse-engineered Google voice search and it basically goes to the server as a sound clip, so i will most likely bring that feature to the search app as well.
Remy X is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10/31/2012, 12:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Remy X's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,562
Now, there's a number of people working on items from this list, but since paid projects come first, it's happening in slow motion. I think dkirker is working on the browser and the eBook app...

I'm also working on GMail, however that's pre-alpha, and i will be finishing with the search first before GMail becomes usable...I am also doing research for a proper weather+earthquake data app which might end up being merged into (Google?) maps but it's not all about me, even if i'm working on something... i absolutely agree with all your points

Last edited by Remy X; 10/31/2012 at 01:06 AM.
Remy X is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10/31/2012, 06:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
laingman's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,309
No visual voicemail on your list?
laingman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/31/2012, 07:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 1,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by laingman View Post
No visual voicemail on your list?
Depends on carrier, there is a visual voice mail client for Verizon's Pre3, installs on Pre2/preplus but carrier does not let server side function...

Dropbox client (with synergy extracts of 3.0.5) I have dropbox working on PrePlus (with webOS 2.2.4), also box.net, google drive, mac MobileMe, snapfish)...
John Steffes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/31/2012, 01:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Remy X's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by hprovider View Post
If you started a small company for the sole purpose of developing and maintaining the apps on that list, it would be hard to imagine doing it for less than a million dollars per year. HP and Palm put a lot more than that into their app contest efforts.
You are right, but i'm porting Google search (+other apps) for free, because i can. Dkirker is doing stuff on his own, a lot of people are releasing apps and patches for free. If we want to save the ecosystem, this is the only way, so everyone who donates a few (or a few hundred) hours to making this work is helping make webOS more viable. Anyone who donates money to the developers who do that, is helping the developers justify spending time on that stuff.

Money makes the world go around, but sometimes putting a pricetag on important things takes away from the actual value. It's like you don't go telling a pregnant woman that the child she's carrying is going to cost her $150,000 in the long run. We know. But we still do things, because dollars and cents don't adequately describe happiness, or the feelings we have when we have done something for each other.
Remy X is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 12:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
laingman's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,309
Part of the problem I see is that we have become accustomed to paying a few cents for apps. I remember paying as much as $20 or more for old palm os apps and would not mind paying that again for premium apps, hell thats about the minimum I donate anyway.

.99 for a little silly app is ok but when a developer spends all that time to develop a usefull app for webos and then to expect to make some money at a dollar a piece, it just dont make sense with a small community like this.
laingman is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by kataran likes this.
Old 11/01/2012, 03:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
steven_farkas's Avatar
 
Posts: 362
an updated music player? personally I think music player (remix) is one of the best out there already? And I also think the twitter apps available service users needs pretty well.

browser, updated email and a type of flipboard-esque app would be awesome.
__________________
All webos, all the time!
HP Touchpad, Touchpad 4G, Panda Veer, pre3, and pre2
steven_farkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 02:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
cbosdell's Avatar
 
Posts: 230
I'd agree with most of this list except the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr3wster View Post
Current List (31/10/12):

Social Networking:
  • Newer Facebook Client
  • Newer Twitter Client
    I'm not sure of anything the current twitter clients are lacking (specifically Project Macaw)
  • Instagram Client
  • Combined Social Network App (a la Scope beta on Android)
  • Gmail Client
  • Updated E-mail Client

PIM:
  • Updated Contacts App (with Group View/Sorting & Social Network feed integration)
  • Office Documents Editor
    Piscel SmartOffice still works great but an update to their new SmartOffice 2 app would be nice.
  • Updated To Do List App (with Sync to Google Support)
    TapNote works great for me as a To-Do/Notes app with sync to Dropbox support. Not the same but close.
  • Updated Memos App (with Sync to Google Support)

Media:
  • Updated Video Player
  • Updated Music Player
    Media Player Remix has everything I could want in a Music App. It's still the best one I've ever used.
  • Music ID Service
    A music ID app already exists and works great (SongID)
  • Dropbox Client
    I'm pretty sure Dropboxify does everything one would need from a Dropbox client

Internet:
  • Chrome Clone (unless Isis is up to scratch)
  • RSS Reader
    Feeder (amongst others) work great for RSS Feeds
  • Google Translate
    I use Translator on my phone for this and it seems to work well but a voice translate app like iTranslate would be very cool.
  • Ebook Reader
    pReader Native in Preware works great however an iBooks-style frontend would take it to the next level imo.

Information search:
  • Google Maps (Exists: Jan Herman (72ka)’s Google Maps)
    Agreed. It's so nice to see such a feature-filled homebrew app that is reguarly updated with new features.
  • App that searches for nearby attractions / restaurants / events
    Yelp still exists in the app catalog but an update or alternative would be useful.
  • Urbanspoon App
  • Newer Youtube App (instead of redirect to webpage)
  • IMDB App
  • Public Transport Timetables
  • Account Usage Monitor (a la MyUsage App on Android)
  • Voice Search
I think the list is pretty spot on but I would add the following:
  • Facebook Messenger - Exists: Chat for Facebook
  • WhatsApp - Exists: MojoWhatsUp
  • Barcode Scanner App
  • Password Keeper - Exists: Keyring
  • Tumblr client (as someone college-aged pretty much everyone I know has a tumblr)
  • Google+ App
  • Netflix
  • Hulu+
  • HBO Go
  • Panorama Camera App
  • PDF Annotation/Editing/Merging App
  • iHeartRadio - Exists on TouchPad only
  • Amazon Kindle - Exists on TouchPad only
  • Turn-by-Turn Navigation App

I'll admit some of those are more niche than yours and aren't very realistic but I think the modern smartphone user has come to expect them.
__________________
Devices: Pre3 16GB (AT&T - webOS 2.2.4) | White TouchPad 4G 32GB (AT&T - webOS 3.0.5 + LunaCE)

Last edited by cbosdell; 11/01/2012 at 03:16 PM.
cbosdell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 03:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
dkirker's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
Now, there's a number of people working on items from this list, but since paid projects come first, it's happening in slow motion. I think dkirker is working on the browser and the eBook app...

I'm also working on GMail, however that's pre-alpha, and i will be finishing with the search first before GMail becomes usable...I am also doing research for a proper weather+earthquake data app which might end up being merged into (Google?) maps but it's not all about me, even if i'm working on something... i absolutely agree with all your points
Mmmmhmmmm. Working on the browser. Hoping to put some stuff in for the eBook app, as well.
__________________
The comments and thoughts expressed on this discussion board are strictly my own and are not those of OpenMobl Systems.
dkirker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 03:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
dkirker's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,019
Re HULU and Netflix: I'd say nix Netflix (as much as I wish there were some way). Unless you can get them to back you. The reason that I say this, is that if they don't back you, you are left to using Siverlight, and the DRM for that only exists on Windows and MacOS. At least Hulu uses Flash. There is a better chance of getting that to work.
__________________
The comments and thoughts expressed on this discussion board are strictly my own and are not those of OpenMobl Systems.
dkirker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 03:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
geekpeter's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,687
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
Re HULU and Netflix: I'd say nix Netflix (as much as I wish there were some way). Unless you can get them to back you. The reason that I say this, is that if they don't back you, you are left to using Siverlight, and the DRM for that only exists on Windows and MacOS. At least Hulu uses Flash. There is a better chance of getting that to work.
and the reason why linux desktops dont have netflix is because the man in charge of netflix is on the board for microsoft and several others.
__________________
Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
geekpeter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 04:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 171
Let's break it down

Current List (31/10/12):

Social Networking:
  • Newer Facebook Client - Ok, agreed
  • Newer Twitter Client - There's a few already which work well
  • Instagram Client - Ok, seems to be becoming essential
  • Combined Social Network App (a la Scope beta on Android) - Not like Glimpse?
  • Gmail Client - Someone is working on it
  • Updated E-mail Client - The one released from openWebOS HQ has this one covered

PIM:
  • Updated Contacts App (with Group View/Sorting & Social Network feed integration)- So Synergy, but improved a touch
  • Office Documents Editor - And creator, I have 3 apps to do his one job atm
  • Updated To Do List App (with Sync to Google Support) - Well, sync to all good(ish) services
  • Updated Memos App (with Sync to Google Support) - As above

Media:
  • Updated Video Player - Definitely
  • Updated Music Player - Music Player Remix kicks ***, don't think it needs much (if any) work
  • Music ID Service - Struggling to see this as essential but ok
  • Dropbox Client - There's already a client, maybe appeal to the dev for any tweaks

Internet:
  • Chrome Clone (unless Isis is up to scratch) - In theory, Isis will handle this
  • RSS Reader - Already exists
  • Google Translate - Web site should work thru Isis but if an app makes better so be it
  • Ebook Reader - Already exists, although a refresh & integration of Wooden Rows may make life easier

Information search:
  • Google Maps (Exists: Jan Herman (72ka)’s Google Maps)
  • App that searches for nearby attractions / restaurants / events - Pass, not exactly essential tho
  • Urbanspoon App - Whut? Never heard of it
  • Newer Youtube App (instead of redirect to webpage) - What's wrong with the web page that an app could theoretically fix?
  • IMDB App - Not essential to say the least
  • Public Transport Timetables - Ok
  • Account Usage Monitor (a la MyUsage App on Android) - That rates as extremely useful if not essential
  • Voice Search - Siri style stuff, makes sense
__________________
Nokia Lumia 920 (daily driver ) - HP TouchPad 32Gb (in daily use) - TouchPad 16Gb (out on loan to a friend) - Pre 3 (AT&T - unlocked) - Pre3 (EU - dev mule) - Veer Panda (AT&T - unlocked, dunno what I'm gonna do with it) - Pre (much abused n stored for sentimental reasons)
webOSnomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 04:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 171
And with this list
  • Facebook Messenger - Exists: Chat for Facebook - Be nice to have it integrated into the main app tho
  • WhatsApp - Exists: MojoWhatsUp
  • Barcode Scanner App - Not essential
  • Password Keeper - Exists: Keyring
  • Tumblr client (as someone college-aged pretty much everyone I know has a tumblr) - People use Tumblr?
  • Google+ App - See above
  • Netflix - As others have said, it'd be nice, however it's unlikely unless Isis can handle it
  • Hulu+ - Ok
  • HBO Go - No. Not essential
  • Panorama Camera App - Possibly but not high up on the priorities
  • PDF Annotation/Editing/Merging App - Yep, essential, be good if it was part of the office suite
  • iHeartRadio - Exists on TouchPad only - open webOs is the TouchPad version
  • Amazon Kindle - Exists on TouchPad only - See above
  • Turn-by-Turn Navigation App - Yup, essential

Remember, as funds/time/people are limited, you need essential apps, niche ones can wait for devs who wish to go for it on their own.

Just to add to the list

Internet security/anti virus - We aren't going to be able to duck under the radar of hackers forever
__________________
Nokia Lumia 920 (daily driver ) - HP TouchPad 32Gb (in daily use) - TouchPad 16Gb (out on loan to a friend) - Pre 3 (AT&T - unlocked) - Pre3 (EU - dev mule) - Veer Panda (AT&T - unlocked, dunno what I'm gonna do with it) - Pre (much abused n stored for sentimental reasons)
webOSnomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 05:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 
dkirker's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,019
Re Facebook Messenger: We do have the Synergy messaging plugins. We may be able to use those quite easily.
__________________
The comments and thoughts expressed on this discussion board are strictly my own and are not those of OpenMobl Systems.
dkirker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 06:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
Remy X's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by webOSnomad View Post
[snip]
Remember, as funds/time/people are limited, you need essential apps, niche ones can wait for devs who wish to go for it on their own.

Just to add to the list

Internet security/anti virus - We aren't going to be able to duck under the radar of hackers forever
[/snip]
I totally agree. But also,"essential" varies between people... office apps and complete email support are essential for someone who is in business, but for someone who's a little younger and more vain, social networking apps, Instagram and photo sharing sites might be at the top of the list as well.

The basics are definitely more important for the platform as a whole, but we'll also need to later round out the offerings with popular items that are in the top 200 favorites on iOS, so that even the most "non-serious" users can feel at home.

Every user is a user, even if it's a 12 year old girl with her sister, or an 80 year old woman...


I am more on the "business user" side, but i'm also willing to work on the other apps, for the sake of having them done, so there's "something for everyone"...


The antivirus offering is an important one, but i'd rather have something that's light-weight, and having a browser and network interface without security holes is a big part of that. PDFs can be an infection vector. Flash can be vulnerable as well. A light antivirus should probably focus on those and more on preventative measures in addition to watching for suspicious activity.

Then, "smart Doctor" with a large database of acceptable patches and apps can be created as an external rootkit-detection program that runs on the PC, which might be quite powerful unless somone really works hard to integrate the virus at firmware level...


Truly good backup/sync support (local, cloud, system-wide, etc) may be even more important than an antivirus to most users, because even without a virus the system can have a non-recoverable failure that leads the person to doctor their device...
Remy X is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 11:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 4
Instagrio is a pretty good Instagram client already. If photo posting was added, I'd consider it complete.
wareagleben is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Rnp likes this.
Thanked By: Rnp
Old 11/01/2012, 11:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 24
If you want to entice people away from the big boys, you need a killer app, in the old sense. You've got to offer something people really want and can't get anywhere else. Telling people you can approximate what literally everyone else has, only not quite, might make webos fans feel better, but it's sure not gonna win any converts. Now, if you can come up with an amazing app only on webos, and I mean so amazing that it'll make me forget that the specs on my current phone are almost better than my laptop, and the fact that Vice City is coming to Android in a few weeks, maybe we can talk.
astark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/01/2012, 11:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
Member
 
Remy X's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by astark View Post
If you want to entice people away from the big boys, you need a killer app, in the old sense. You've got to offer something people really want and can't get anywhere else. Telling people you can approximate what literally everyone else has, only not quite, might make webos fans feel better, but it's sure not gonna win any converts. Now, if you can come up with an amazing app only on webos, and I mean so amazing that it'll make me forget that the specs on my current phone are almost better than my laptop, and the fact that Vice City is coming to Android in a few weeks, maybe we can talk.
Yea, but even if we did this, we aren't going to make the average Joe fight over pre-owned hardware anytime soon. Let's be realistic. This thread is about attracting hardware vendors... the OEMs aren't likely to be enticed into playing Vice City or into building a phone/tablet exclusively for Vice City. But they might see a point in not building another carbon copy Android clone as the market becomes saturated and people see no difference between manufacturers....
Remy X is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/02/2012, 02:10 AM   #20 (permalink)
Member
 
ajguns's Avatar
 
Posts: 179
I totally agree on the way it should be. webOS is not about hundred thousands apps, but about what webOS key features bring to the table (multitasking, synergy, elegant looks, etc.). So it make TOTAL sense not to go all crazy about getting thousands of apps (though it certainly wouldn't hurt also) and to adjust some "must have" apps to what webOS offers.
My list:
Social Networking:
Facebook: Although I like webOS FB app, it is pretty limited and not always displays every post. When uploading photos, you have to tag after the photo is uploaded, you cannot choose on which folder you want to upload it, the private messages aren't notified.
Twitter: I love ProjectMacaw, but I would like a "Share to Facebook" option. Spaz (Phone) does it.
LinkedIn: I've always brag about how Palm (now HP) made business/work/news-updates/in-touch ultimate tools/devices (about 5 years ago). There's a LinkedIn app, but it's very very limited. Lots of improvements needed there.
webOSNation: YES! I want to be able to comment and interact in forums directly from the app. "Not Official" current app is just not cutting it!

Core Apps:
Tasks: Any improvement here would be nice, but specifically geo-location based notification would be nice. Probably have a few formats (shopping list, work-flow tasks, others) and the ability of posting photos or such. Voice tasks integration would be cool.
Contacts: More and improved synergy services. Like adding and inviting contact to specific tasks, calendar events and such.
Calendar: Uber does quite a bit, but some of them I have never been able to use, like adding contacts or putting a geo reference (show/mark on map) to an event.
Photos: More synergy! Like when uploading photos to Foursquare and sharing them on FB and twitter. Instagram, flickr, tumblr and others alike.
Calculator: C'mon! Improve it!
Music: I would add just the ability to crop songs to make a ringtone.
Video: Download videos directly from app. Also cropping ability.
Camera: Effects (B/W, vintage, greyscale, graffiti, etc.). Zoom before taking the picture!!!
Browser: Hold/tap menu to straight download.
Office Word/Excel/PowerPoint: More PC/Mac alike experience! Rich text, justification, italic, add photo, background image (like my office printed paper), header (text and images), footer, etcetera, etcetera! I don't know, I want to be able to do everything on my Touchpad.

IM:
webOSchat: Use enyo cross-platform magic and make an AWESOME/KILLER/BEAUTIFUL/ELEGANT instant messenger and release it on every platform you can. Problem with WA and other I'M is that they don't develop for every platform, so an I'M for every -and we (at webOS) mean every!- platform available could give a good statement and we can always suggest our friends to download it so we can stay in touch. Once they taste it and lets hope it blows their minds! The rest is piece of cake ;-)

Third Party Apps:
Security Video Camera: A client to the most sold security cameras that can be monitored on mobile devices.
TeamViewer: I have Splashtop but it won't let me transfer files from Desktop to Touchpad. As far as I know, TeamViewer lets you do this. The main reason for me to use a program like this, is to pull my info onto my mobile device.
Box: Since Box have given 50GB free to TP owners, we should take an advantage of it and fully integrate webOS apps to Box. Improve Box TP app.
ScoreCenter: Improved and adapted to TP screen.

In sum, I would support this kind of initiative. Just work on the layout on how it's going to work (regarding donations, developers, supporters, developments approvals and advances, etcetera) and lets get this started!

These are the ones that come to my mind right now. Will update if any other rises.

The force may be with you!

P.S.: Is there any chance to creat a web page where apps can be placed and integrate pay-pal so the whole world could access webOS catalog? That would be VERY helpful on this matter as well.
ajguns is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

 

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0