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Apps situation - we're doing it wrong!!
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Old 11/02/2012, 07:37 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Some notes on the camera ....these are the features that reeled me in....and they are good.
Burst shot, Face Detection, Smile Shot, Voice Activated Snapshots, Panorama, Automatic Scene Modes, Separate Exposure Value, Focus Mode, Timer, Resolution up to 3264x2448, White Balance, ISO, Metering, Anti Shake, Guidelines, Image Quality.

Here's a big one, automatic upload to (name your cloud storage here.) Customizable from immediate, or when you return to a WiFi zone.

Being able to film a video, and take a still picture while still filming the video.

This is what's being offered on today's smartphones, and it's this level that needs to be met, in order to stay competitive with the average user. I don't expect those would be an easy integration either.
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Old 11/02/2012, 07:47 AM   #22 (permalink)
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For Public Transportation App, there is "Bahnfahren" for Public Transport in Germany. This App is really really smart and one of my absolute favorites. Guess if we talk (and donate) to the developer, there is some chance that it gets ported to other countries as well.
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Old 11/02/2012, 08:14 AM   #23 (permalink)
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share via Bluetooth is a must have!
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Old 11/02/2012, 11:29 AM   #24 (permalink)
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i kinda wish webOS had a built in stopwatch and countdown timer.
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Old 11/02/2012, 11:32 AM   #25 (permalink)
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But there are apps for those things already, so it shouldn't matter that they are not built in.

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Old 11/02/2012, 04:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Sledge,

I agree te camera situation is lacking. Hardware issue tho
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Old 11/03/2012, 09:37 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xandros9 View Post
i kinda wish webOS had a built in stopwatch and countdown timer.
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Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
But there are apps for those things already, so it shouldn't matter that they are not built in.

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If we're talking about improving the way webOS is overall, then xandros has a point. It's nice to be able to open Clock (on Android) and have the following available, in one app: Alarm, World Clock, Stopwatch, Timer, Desk Clock. It's less searching around when anything time related is under one heading.
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Sledge,

I agree te camera situation is lacking. Hardware issue tho
Laingman, I'm not so sure if all of what I had mentioned is strictly hardware. I used to have one of the first (non-smart) flip-camera phones back in the day. I can't remember the make/model seems to me it might have been either an Ericsson or a Kyocera. This phone had a built in white balance, as well as several automatic scene modes. Now whether or not it could be actually programmed to work with existing hardware, who knows. Obviously there's a reason why it isn't there, whether it's physically not feasible or maybe they just didn't have the time/resources/know how to do it. At any rate, these were/are suggestions for the future. I've heard the argument over and over that it's "just a phone" "if I want to take serious pictures I'll just use my Canon Rebel" but the truth of the matter is people use their phones....for more than just a phone, and not everybody has a DSLR in their back pocket
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Old 11/03/2012, 04:07 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Laingman, I'm not so sure if all of what I had mentioned is strictly hardware. I used to have one of the first (non-smart) flip-camera phones back in the day. I can't remember the make/model seems to me it might have been either an Ericsson or a Kyocera. This phone had a built in white balance, as well as several automatic scene modes. Now whether or not it could be actually programmed to work with existing hardware, who knows. Obviously there's a reason why it isn't there, whether it's physically not feasible or maybe they just didn't have the time/resources/know how to do it. At any rate, these were/are suggestions for the future. I've heard the argument over and over that it's "just a phone" "if I want to take serious pictures I'll just use my Canon Rebel" but the truth of the matter is people use their phones....for more than just a phone, and not everybody has a DSLR in their back pocket
Yes. I still keep my high-end LG flip phone as a second phone line and one of the reasons for keeping it is the top-notch camera firmware.

The Pre+ takes great video, crystal clear and almost never skips frames, but i only use it for photos if i don't have time to grab something else. The aforementioned lack of white balance and of other built-in features makes it a camera for documenting something but not for any arty shots. The fact that the Pre has flash became an excuse to use crappy sensors with strings of bad pixels, so the one i have has a whole line of red pixels that show up after taking a photo in low light conditions. Eww...

My other phone is that LG VX8700 and it has a noise-free 2.0 megapixel sensor. The camera firmware constantly adjusts white balance that makes for some interesting effects if you manage to take a picture before it is done calculating, or if you play with it by covering and uncovering the camera between shots. It also has a night vision mode, courtesy of the high quality sensor, and it's very good ..The compression/up-sampling algorithm is also the most natural of the three phones i have. Video recording is low resolution.

The other third phone that's off-network is my Nokia N900. It's got a 5MP camera with a focus lens, where you twiddle the camera button to focus, and press it completely to take photo. It's powered by the same CPU as the Pre+, but having a high resolution IPS screen makes video recording glitchy, since the screen image takes priority over video recording. The upside is being able to use macro mode zoom while recording a video. Photos are often grainy in a way that artifacts can become bright pixels that stand out, but being able to take a photo of a newspaper and then zoom in on the picture and read it hours later makes it a worthy piece.

Perhaps my "analysis" is subjective, but each of these three phones is unique in a way that makes me unable to pick one, there's always a case when the other phone is better. I always gravitate to the flip phone due to both having control and the surprise element of the phone's own calculation and not having to deal with "paint by number" polygons in the finished image.

I may be a snob when it comes to my phones' camera capabilities, but i'm not a professional photographer, so please don't rip me apart for not using the correct terms ...However, i have, and still do work with graphics professionally, Photoshop work is second nature to me, so i reserve the right to pick apart image quality all day long


Anyhow, i agree that a phone's photo capabilities are important, whether it's purely hardware (cast-off, grade C sensors vs. the best of the batch) or the firmware that pulls raw sensor data and manipulates it for white balance and final resampling before compressing the image as JPEG...
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Old 11/05/2012, 10:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The fundamental problem with "taking it into your own hands" is that some of the apps being proposed here (Google+, HBO Go, etc) require the use of private interfaces to make them anything but shadows of the real thing. And those APIs aren't made available (sometimes even the basic ones) for a reason. HBO Go wouldn't even let you touch their infrastructure, much less expose an API to reverse engineer in the first place given the sensitive user information that ties into cable service user databases. You'd get sued out of existence in the HBO Go case, and a really feature-light app with Google+ not worth using since the public API is seriously crap and lacking almost everything that would make it compelling.

Look at the WhatsApp situation for another great reason why "taking it into your own hands" piggybacking on popular companies that produce their own first-party applications is usually a bad thing. Even for those which a reverse engineered API exists, your app (and the user experience, as a result) are at the whim of any changes they make. In the WhatsApp case, a single API change to authentication has essentially crippled the app into uselessness for a while now--with no ETA.

Now imagine how its users must feel getting jerked around, having made the choice to use the app not realizing how unstable it would be. If you're a user of webOS excited to finally have WhatsApp, this situation exposes webOS' weaknesses with a neon red light and makes other platforms with a legitimate client look a hell of a lot better in comparison. There's no better advertisement for your competition than your own failure.

And Apollo? That's living on borrowed time, as it, too, uses reverse-engineered APIs that could go dark at any time with a chance of being irrecoverable. And it's piggybacking on a publicly-traded company (Pandora) with plenty of legal representation behind it. I commend the developers for having the balls to disregard that fact at their own peril.

Or, to take it from another angle, look at Twitter's active hostility against third-party app developers in order to drive them away in favor of their own apps, making them follow extremely oppressive guidelines meant to limit their usefulness and user reach. Tweetbot for the Mac (among other top-tier clients) are facing seriously negative future outlooks because of it--so much so that the makers of Tweetbot instead decided to support App.net going forward since Twitter restricts the number of user tokens...and thus their ability to sell copies of the app after a certain time. The only reason webOS Twitter clients haven't had to worry is because the remaining userbase is only a fraction of a fraction of the limit larger clients on other platforms are facing.

So, my point here is to be very careful which app ideas you move forward with, especially where it concerns piggybacking on another company's services. ****ing off remaining webOS users and making webOS devs look like a band of amateurs (that didn't think things through) to companies that may be interested in releasing hardware for it isn't a good idea. In fact, it's a really, really bad one. Each and every visible failure drives people--and potential support from elsewhere--away from the platform out of frustration and/or the perception of those supporting the platform not having their **** together.

Do serious and rigorous research ahead of time to evaluate which app ideas are actually doable to a 100% legal, professional, and polished degree and run with those. Study the APIs, the terms of service, legal and brand standards requirements, estimate the development complexity involved, and make sure the person doing it is a developer that can properly evaluate all of those things. Make sure each and every one of those apps is a beacon to anyone seeing or using it rather than a rushed, ugly piece of code of dubious legality.

But, stepping back a bit, this seems like yet another one of those threads around here where someone gets big ideas to resurrect webOS's chances with users or potential OEMs. Everyone talks about what should be done in exhaustive detail and pumps the crowd up, but without fail not much ever gets done to actually make it happen and it just ends up driving even more users of the platform away. And worse, the ideas are presented as realistic when they actually require a legion of developers that simply no longer exist in the webOS community, with no replacements in sight. Those developers aren't coming back, either; they've moved on.

As a quick sidebar, this is just a recent, representative sample of the things I've seen from ex-webOS devs:
https://twitter.com/IngloriousApps/s...29473687396352
https://twitter.com/IngloriousApps/s...32919949877248

So, these ideas are nice to think about, but have no basis at all in the reality of the situation, especially where it involves level of effort (LoE) required, much less the number of qualified webOS developers remaining to make it happen. If somehow you guys did manage to find the time and the people to code the 30-40 seriously professional and polished top-tier apps it'll take to get the attention of anyone--some in that list taking entire teams months to develop, usually--then godspeed. Anything's possible. Just be smart about it and don't screw your users around by half-assing it just to say you got the app out there--or open yourself up to legal liability in the process.

Lest you think I'm being harsh, considering some of the ideas in this thread being thrown around with no concern being expressed about actual feasibility, I'm actually being pretty damned nice.

Last edited by dignitary; 11/06/2012 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 11/06/2012, 01:40 AM   #30 (permalink)
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And plus normal messenger with MSN, ICQ and XMPP support. Also would be nice to add mojoWhatsup to messenger.
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Old 11/06/2012, 10:49 AM   #31 (permalink)
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you need to add Waze to the list of essential Apps. Right now I am dual booting my Touchpad and after Mojowhatsapp I would stay 100% with Webos were it not because of Waze.
I like Navit, but it lacks the traffic conditions info that Waze provides and i find that very useful.

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Old 11/06/2012, 03:45 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Google Plus, please.

Some local sync & backup! (Yes, I still missing; a lot, sync with Palm Desktop. )

And; for love of God, the same Documents To Go as in Palm OS! No more, and no less.


Best Regards....
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Old 11/06/2012, 06:11 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Does anyone have a proper app or description to do low level network activity monitoring for an app on Android? Would like to monitor some URL requests from some apps and recreate these apps for webOS with Enyo :-)
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Old 11/08/2012, 01:36 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Does anyone have a proper app or description to do low level network activity monitoring for an app on Android? Would like to monitor some URL requests from some apps and recreate these apps for webOS with Enyo :-)
That's a nice, quick way to get yourself slapped with a nice fat lawsuit. Evidently you didn't read my post above.
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Old 11/08/2012, 01:59 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Does anyone have a proper app or description to do low level network activity monitoring for an app on Android? Would like to monitor some URL requests from some apps and recreate these apps for webOS with Enyo :-)
Can't you just use Wireshark on another machine to monitor the Android phone? That should be almost as good IMHO.
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Old 11/08/2012, 03:13 AM   #36 (permalink)
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That's a nice, quick way to get yourself slapped with a nice fat lawsuit. Evidently you didn't read my post above.
I'm not US based and our laws are a bit more liberal
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Old 11/08/2012, 04:24 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Here's a thread on Stack Overflow that talks about using Wireshark for this purpose, i don't know if it'll help you... Decoding URL in Wireshark - Stack Overflow

Last edited by Remy X; 11/08/2012 at 03:37 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11/08/2012, 06:37 AM   #38 (permalink)
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That's a nice, quick way to get yourself slapped with a nice fat lawsuit. Evidently you didn't read my post above.
Hand out all the advice you want....nobody is forced to listen to or follow it.
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Old 11/08/2012, 11:43 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Hand out all the advice you want....nobody is forced to listen to or follow it.
Nor is anyone being forced to read it; I've just been in the industry long enough to know things like this don't always end well. Take it or leave it.

*shrug*
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Old 11/09/2012, 12:15 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Let's put it this way. The apps I'm looking at are 'local' app from my country for things like 'free public transport plannner', 'various newspapers', nothing too shocking. If I find the URL's and parameters they use I can build apps for webOS for these instead of using their website :-)
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