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  1. #2701  
    I guess all of you have been busy with the HP Webos shutdown, any news from MojoWhatsUp side? I would really appreciate some news in this area! Is there still hope?
  2. gsfx's Avatar
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    #2702  
    Which shutdown? 03/17/15 or 17.03.2015 as we Europeans say - everything works fine. I just made a backup.
  3. #2703  
    oh great, just the app catalog on my touchpad is not working anymore *confused*
  4. #2704  
    Honestly, I would say that we should focus on actually implementing and using a protocol that won't block us (like Telegram) instead of fighting with one that does (Whatsapp). I've done this battle before, and it is stupid (in the sense that it gets tiring going a few months with something that works, then being blocked for a few months).

    The only way that can be successful is by pushing friends to use something else.

    Just my two cents...
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  5. #2705  
    Honestly, I would say that we should focus on actually implementing and using a protocol that won't block us (like Telegram) instead of fighting with one that does (Whatsapp). I've done this battle before, and it is stupid (in the sense that it gets tiring going a few months with something that works, then being blocked for a few months).

    The only way that can be successful is by pushing friends to use something else.

    Just my two cents...
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  6. #2706  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    Honestly, I would say that we should focus on actually implementing and using a protocol that won't block us (like Telegram) instead of fighting with one that does (Whatsapp). I've done this battle before, and it is stupid (in the sense that it gets tiring going a few months with something that works, then being blocked for a few months).

    The only way that can be successful is by pushing friends to use something else.

    Just my two cents...
    I have to agree (though I do not use Whatsapp, so it's easy for me to say).

    If a popular service has an open API and someone wants to build or update an app for it, that's great, but the reality is that whatsapp/facebook is another company that monetises you by trading your data - they naturally want to maintain control of that data stream by shutting out 3rd party clients - especially after they've gained a large number of users. It would actually make sense to allow webOS a 3rd party client, but there aren't enough of us to bother with and it would open a door to others.

    Currently it seems it's possible to connect to whatsapp, but someone will need to do the coding and there's no guarantee that the API won't be changed or closed at some point in the future.

    For webOS and other minority systems, open standards & open-source will have to be the way to go and it's to be hoped that there is a broader adoption of these things. The advantage is cross-platform potential, the disadvantage is that lower revenues will discourage coders from developing these solutions into slick products.

    For now, old clients are breaking and not often being fixed - if it is even possible. In future, there will be no webOS clients for new services unless something comes from LG or it is an open standard / open-source protocol.
  7. #2707  
    But the blocking in this case is due to :

    1) changing maintainer

    2) problems creating the toolchain (I think)

    Note that they turned off 1.2 .. but at the same time 1.5 was available... this means that before turning off 1.5, they have to do the same first for 1.3, then 1.4

    In the meanwhile 1.6 and upward will be released, so technically the whole thing can be updated while all is working.

    Given that the interface library is being fully rewritten in the spare time, taking a bit is not that strange.
  8. #2708  
    But as previously stated, the library is not the app. Someone will need to write the app. It will be great if someone does, but their work will remain subject to the whims of facebook. I know some have abandoned webOS because of whatsapp & facebook no longer working.

    I'm not saying we should all give up on these popular services, but an open standard / open-source service will be far easier to port and maintain.
  9. #2709  
    not really.. the app is going to stay the same. mojowhatsup just needs the C library interface rewritten (or fixed).
    Actually more C interfaces can be made for different things, like Telegram, too, and the app tweaked to use them
  10. #2710  
    That still leaves the crux of the problem:

    Using a third party app begets a Whatsapp account block. This is where I think all of these different messaging protocols are BS. You either have an open protocol (which tends to not be a super popular one because it follows the popular one), or a closed protocol that tries to lock you out (but is popular). There are many reasons for locking folks out of a protocol; but that isn't the point. (Two very good reasons for blocking access to a protocol would be SnapChat or some secure messaging. There is no way for you to guarantee that a message is deleted as required, or that a message is stored in an encrypted manner when received.) But for whatever reason Whatsapp has for blocking access (whether it is monetisation or security), you'll always be chasing it.

    Write changes -> Get blocked or protocol spec changes -> Write fixes -> rinse and repeat

    If someone wants to do the work, sure, more to them. But, I gave up on Whatsapp because I didn't have the time to chase fixes, or willingness to wait X months for one, only to have it break a month later. Not to mention, I don't trust Whatsapp with my data or ability to securely transmit my messages....

    My recommendation is go grassroots, get folks on a DECENT protocol (not one that uses security through obscurity) by suggesting others use it, and then we can end the BS. It is like voting for the popular kid at school when you might not want them, but your reasoning is "Why vote for anyone else? They won't win."

    Of course, I should put my money where my mouth is and write a connector for a different protocol. :P Hmmmmm, I'll have to look again.... see what there is out there. (I'm not making promises right now!)
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  11. #2711  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    not really.. the app is going to stay the same. mojowhatsup just needs the C library interface rewritten (or fixed).
    Actually more C interfaces can be made for different things, like Telegram, too, and the app tweaked to use them
    Well, that is what Synergy exists for. If LuneOS gets Synergy support, moving over would be relatively easy.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  12. #2712  
    Amoralico didn't know how to make it using synergy, so he made it this way. It worked perfectly (at most used a bit more battery)...
    There was nobody offering to help him, back then, to convert it to synergy.. so it's a mooth point mentioning it imo.

    About 3rd party... we cannot be banned like 3rd party clients on android. Mojowhasup simulates accessing as a nokia s30 or whatever is the name, and thus simulates a totally legal access on the network.
  13. #2713  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    Honestly, I would say that we should focus on actually implementing and using a protocol that won't block us (like Telegram) instead of fighting with one that does (Whatsapp). I've done this battle before, and it is stupid (in the sense that it gets tiring going a few months with something that works, then being blocked for a few months).

    The only way that can be successful is by pushing friends to use something else.

    Just my two cents...
    Problem with a messaging app, you need other users that use it.

    I mean I have BBM on my BlackBerry, it works well and probably the best of all the messengers out there (I can even share my phone screen, how about that!), but it doesn't help that I only have one contact on it.
    Last edited by ToniCipriani; 03/19/2015 at 08:37 AM.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
    gsfx likes this.
  14. gsfx's Avatar
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    #2714  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    Problem with a messaging app, you need other users that use it.

    I mean I have BBM on my BlackBerry, it works well and probably the best of all the messengers out there (I can even share my phone screen, how about that!), but it doesn't help that I only have contact on it.
    Thats the point. Many people I know use WhatsApp. At the moment I can not. And I can not switch them to Telegram. Some them are there, but most people use WA. So I would be glad to have WA back on my Pre 3. But I must be honest: I had a look which phone with hardware keyboard I would buy - the Blackberry Passport looks fine to me. WebOS ist the best operating system - thats what I think. But it needs some work to stay the best system.
  15. gsfx's Avatar
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    #2715  
    Quote Originally Posted by Powersoft View Post
    oh great, just the app catalog on my touchpad is not working anymore *confused*
    On my Pre 3 even the app shop works I just installed 2 apps from the HP app shop. OK, free apps.

    Edit: On the Pre 2 the shop works as well...

    Edit: On the TouchPad the app store works as well...
    Last edited by gsfx; 03/18/2015 at 05:32 PM.
  16. #2716  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    Problem with a messaging app, you need other users that use it.

    I mean I have BBM on my BlackBerry, it works well and probably the best of all the messengers out there (I can even share my phone screen, how about that!), but it doesn't help that I only have contact on it.
    This is of course the dilemma:
    The pattern seems to be that some start up makes a messaging system that becomes popular (but is often quite insecure). Everyone jumps on board and others start making clients for it. The user numbers make the company valuable to bigger companies - regardless of whether the app is generating huge income by itself. Then comes the pressure to control the datastream and restrict 3rd party apps - for reasons of control, security or income consolidation.

    An open protocol - hopefully designed with security in mind should be more attractive to users, but the difficulty in monetising limits the development effort (and advertising budget). People tend to go with what's popular, ignoring potential problems unless they are so bad that they are an immediate product killer.

    Here's an idea that may not exactly solve the problem, but could help: If we imagine a unified messaging app for LuneOS, the qualities it would likely have are that it will be written in Enyo and would be a synergy app. The first quality means that it would run on most, probably all relevant platforms (I'm making assumptions here about synergy being part of the app - it may be a deeper part of the OS). The second quality means that plugins can be written for many services. For example: SMS, Skype, Whatsapp, Snapchat, Telegam etc.

    By using the app, you get to run it on your choice of OS (maximum user access) and have a choice of protocols - with more able to be added. Most people will use the popular stuff of course, but if there are problems like security scandals or 3rd party lockout, it makes it very easy to switch to another system - one more secure, open or both. You simply have to suggest your contacts use it.

    Let's say your friends on Android or iOS has the app. You are on LuneOS and the current popular messenger has a problem for you, but still works on the mainstream OSes. You ask your friends to switch to another system. They simply activate the plugin, sign up and see your messages in the same timeline as their other contacts without any new interface to learn. The new system is something they are now using and a viable alternative they could switch to fully if it became desirable or necessary.

    Another possible side benefit is to call the app something like 'LuneOS messenger' and sell it as 'All your messages in one app.' There's been a lot of talk of web apps making any particular OS irrelevant. This is quite debatable, but in a way, perhaps exporting useful apps to other platforms (with clear references to their origin) some users on other platforms might think, "Hey, I'm using and liking a bunch of webOS/LuneOS apps here. Maybe I'll try the whole experience!" There may be a trickle of users to LuneOS.

    Start shooting me down!
    mypalmpred likes this.
  17. #2717  
    This is getting an interesting discussion, but lets take a look at the aspects from the real-world side:
    Whatsapp is the market leader and so many people use it. It is very practical as it is assigned to a phone number. It has a huge userbase and a huge acceptance.

    Do not misunderstand me, there are for sure protocols or ways to do it better, and for sure i worry about where my data goes and would prefer some opensource protocol.

    But the very point is, that the userbase is in whatsapp and not in any other telegram or whatsoever stuff.

    We have to be realistic.
    With an already vanishing userbase some of the main points to stick with webOS is compatibility with other platforms.

    So, if there is NO
    -stable Skype
    -working Google Calendar functionality
    -contemporary messaging protocols (i.e. Whatsapp)
    -for many people facebook app (i can survive without and would prefer stable ICQ)

    THEN the webOS is not usable for daily use anymore and the userbase will vanish more.

    So the MAIN point is to stay up to date in these wide-spread apps.
    if there is no way to use these anymore, the folks will go and buy a blackberry or even worse an android phone.

    ...my 2 cents...
  18. #2718  
    This is getting an interesting discussion, but lets take a look at the aspects from the real-world side:
    Whatsapp is the market leader and so many people use it. It is very practical as it is assigned to a phone number. It has a huge userbase and a huge acceptance.

    Do not misunderstand me, there are for sure protocols or ways to do it better, and for sure i worry about where my data goes and would prefer some opensource protocol.

    But the very point is, that the userbase is in whatsapp and not in any other telegram or whatsoever stuff.

    We have to be realistic.
    With an already vanishing userbase some of the main points to stick with webOS is compatibility with other platforms.

    So, if there is NO
    -stable Skype
    -working Google Calendar functionality
    -contemporary messaging protocols (i.e. Whatsapp)
    -for many people facebook app (i can survive without and would prefer stable ICQ)

    THEN the webOS is not usable for daily use anymore and the userbase will vanish more.

    So the MAIN point is to stay up to date in these wide-spread apps.
    if there is no way to use these anymore, the folks will go and buy a blackberry or even worse an android phone.

    ...my 2 cents...
    Ranoulph likes this.
  19. #2719  
    Amen.

    up to now Skype is not an issue (and I keep hearing of people complaining about skype on android, now with the last updates... due to excessive battery usage).
    Google calendar is being addressed (personally anyway I use the hotmail calendar on the pre3, and works like a charm. Don't see a single reason to stick with google when there are good alternatives.. all in all is just a calendar)
    The other 2 points are of concern
  20. #2720  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    up to now Skype is not an issue (and I keep hearing of people complaining about skype on android, now with the last updates... due to excessive battery usage).
    That's why my Pre 3 is still my desk phone, works great together with Touchstone.

    Imagine running the buggy Android Skype inside BlackBerry, double the fun!
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here

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