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  1.    #1  
    Ok I know I might be in the 1% of people, but technically I am a pirate. Here is my story.
    Some background information. I'm a day one webos user and have bought many apps from the catalog. (I have the screen shots from Impostah to prove it) But there were on two times where I did pirate an app. The first time was Sims 3 form EA and the second was Casa from Inglorious Apps. And I feel I had a good reason for both and here is my side of the story.
    First letís start with Sims 3. Back in 2010 or when 1.4.5 was released I bought Sims 3 for $9.99 and I loved it. I loved it so much and was one of the things I was looking forward to on the Touchpad. Well Sims 3 was never ported to the Touchpad. Some other EA games were, but any that I owned. So I went to a pirate site and downloaded it. I couldn't get to work on the Touchpad, but if I could I wouldn't feel bad at all. [Deleted by Staff] So am I really a pirate? There is no reason why I shouldnít be able to play the Sims 3 on the touchpad, but I canít so I tried to make a way.
    Second, last week I pirated Casa. Now this one was kinda of a special case. I was looking for photo app that worked kinda like photo bucket in webos 3.x, but was not a part of the core operating system. So I came around to Picasa and the app Casa. Now I know it was not expensive, but I didnít want to spend money and not like it. So I downloaded from a pirate and put it on my Touchpad. It was the phone version and I couldnít update it to the Touchpad version, but after playing with it for a while and seeing how it working with the website and the desktop software I bought it. I know many users would have not done the same, but I feel that there is value in a free trial. I could have keep the app and never paid for it, but it did.
    The point to the story is while I know it is always not possible there is a way to combat piracy. Like free trials and even do what the developers of Tweet Pad and Tower Wars HD did. Those app are free, but it you want all the features you have to use an in app purchase. That way it doesnít matter is someone pirates it, if they want the full version there is a price. Now I am no developer and I know there are limits to this, but if there was a 7 day trial of Casa or maybe a way that when I used it I could only import one photo album, I would have done that instead, and then bought it.

    I know I am not a typical use case, but there was more ways to trial paid apps and also not have them locked to one device, I feel piracy would go down I a lot of cases.

    Just to be clear I donít support piracy. I always tell people to buy apps. This is just my experience and reason why I did it. I also have the screen shots to prove I paid to all these apps and more if there are any doubters.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 02/06/2012 at 06:41 PM.
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  2. #2  
    I get it. WebOS doesn't have a return policy like the Android market, so you take a risk any time you download an app that it might not work properly or isn't what you thought it was. Personally I think pirating an app to see what it's like before buying it is totally fine but only if you pay for it if you decide to keep it.
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  3. #3  
    Your justification makes no sense. That's just not the way things work (at least not now). If you tried hard enough, you can justify your way through anything, although the point is just b/c you found a justification, it doesn't make it correct.

    You don't remember the time when you walked Tower Records and they had about a dozen records where you can sample them at the listening stations but for all else, you had to buy CDs on blind faith, then opened and listened to it and was sorely disappointed. It's not like you could take it back for a refund.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    Your justification makes no sense. That's just not the way things work (at least not now). If you tried hard enough, you can justify your way through anything, although the point is just b/c you found a justification, it doesn't make it correct.

    You don't remember the time when you walked Tower Records and they had about a dozen records where you can sample them at the listening stations but for all else, you had to buy CDs on blind faith, then opened and listened to it and was sorely disappointed. It's not like you could take it back for a refund.
    No i dont remember a time when I walked into Tower Records, because I have never seen one. They didn't have any stores in NC. But in any case, I committed a victim-less crime were the developer Inglorious Apps still made money and EA probably will never make a Touchpad version of Sims 3. So nobody loss.

    And you can't really compare Physical Media to Digital. If I buy a CD and hate it I can still resell it. This doesn't exist in digital.
    Furuboru likes this.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ceveret3 View Post
    Ok I know I might be in the 1% of people, but technically I am a pirate. Here is my story.
    First letís start with Sims 3. Back in 2010 or when 1.4.5 was released I bought Sims 3 for $9.99 and I loved it. I loved it so much and was one of the things I was looking forward to on the Touchpad. Well Sims 3 was never ported to the Touchpad. Some other EA games were, but any that I owned. So I went to a pirate site and downloaded it. I couldn't get to work on the Touchpad, but if I could I wouldn't feel bad at all. (By the way of anyone can help me to get it work I would really appreciate it) So am I really a pirate? There is no reason why I shouldnít be able to play the Sims 3 on the touchpad, but I canít so I tried to make a way.
    This is exactly the kind of thing Impostah is made for. I have Deer Hunter, Need for Speed Undercover, N.O.V.A on my TouchPad, all bought on my Pre+ or Pre 2. They're not HD, so the graphics leave something to be desired, but they're my apps I bought.
  6. #6  
    OP, have you ever bought a movie ticket at the movie theater? A matinee is about $7 these days if you're lucky. Why did you pay that much when you didn't know if it was going to be good? Sure you had reviews and trailers, but what if the movie was bad? You'd be be wasting $7 (probably more actually). Shouldn't you have snuck into the theater, watch 30 minutes of it, then go back and pay for it?

    If you wouldn't do that, then why do you think it was ok for you to do the same thing with an app that's much cheaper than a night out at the movies? Also an app's usefulness doesn't expire in 2 hours in most cases. And apps have reviews just like movies and many times have video demos (like trailers).
    Last edited by DanPLC; 02/06/2012 at 06:40 PM. Reason: typo
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  7. #7  
    Folks... Remember, there is really no justification for pirating (stealing) apps no matter how you word it. That being said... it is also against site rules to ask for assistance in getting pirated software to work. If you wish to discuss why people would do it - that's ok, but please remember not to discuss where to get these items and/or ask for help with them. Thank you

    <thread cleansed>
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 02/06/2012 at 10:01 PM.
  8. #8  
    I a bit surprised and disappointed with many of these responses. I think many of you need to step back for a moment from the knee-jerk unrealistically dogmatic self-righteousness and see the bigger picture that arises from what the OP is saying. Some of you responding above sound like you hardly read the entirety of what was said first. Where you hear "piracy" and immediately hunker down, seeing a crisis, the OP is trying to demonstrate an opportunity. Whether or not it is possible or applicable at this time doesn't make it any less compelling to discuss.
    Last edited by sq5; 02/06/2012 at 09:10 PM.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    OP, have you ever bought a movie ticket at the movie theater? A matinee is about $7 these days if you're lucky. Why did you pay that much when you didn't know if it was going to be good? Sure you had reviews and trailers, but what if the movie was bad? You'd be be wasting $7 (probably more actually). Shouldn't you have snuck into the theater, watch 30 minutes of it, then go back and pay for it?

    If you wouldn't do that, then why do you think it was ok for you to do the same thing with an app that's much cheaper than a night out at the movies? Also an app's usefulness doesn't expire in 2 hours in most cases. And apps have reviews just like movies and many times have video demos (like trailers).
    I understand you even if the metaphor doesn't really apply to me. And if the movie is really good I might buy the DVD or pay go to more movies by that director. I have paid for may apps from Inglorious so I should have just known it was going to be good, but the video preview was for the phone app not the touchpad version. And there were also some bad reviews as well.

    I am by no way saying Stealing is ok. I was just giving my experience. And maybe giving value to the in app purchase model or try before your buy.
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  10. #10  
    Don't bother to fight pirate, they will come again and stronger and more rage.
    Hard way never success, the best way to minimize piracy damage is using good will and never look low of them. They are smart guy, and have some "ego", if you hurt them, they will hurt you more.

    I ever know one patcher/cracker in windows mobile era. He was a smart guy, he can patch/crack softwares that never/easily to be cracked. He shared them in many underground website. After the developer know, one of them approach him via email, and offer him all of their apps for free! But ask him to stop pirate their app, and even ask him to help fix the security. After that, he never pirate that developer apps, and he help that developer to update and fix the security.

    I ever know a software developer that come from a patch or cracker. After he feel skilled, he become a software developer, and believe it or not, no other patcher/cracker pirate his app. Because they know who is the developer.

    Another example. There is a game developer for windows mobile that raged after know their games pirated and shared. They ask FBI to threaten and close the host server of sharing community website. The site down for almost a month or two, and then comeback again with special note to pirate all games from the developer that make their site down.
    And this time that developer can't do anything because they put the host server on a place that can't be touched by FBI.

    So this is just an example. If you are a good software developers and feel damaged by piracy of your creation, then I just give you these tips.
    1. Don't always use hard way to fight pirate. Use other better and wiser way to approach them and solve it friendly.
    2. Always make a great app, a very useful one, that make people always need of your creation. And always update it frequently with better features. You must know that pirate app not always updated. So make your app up to date.
    3. For non supported countries, if HP still disallow you to sell outside app catalog, you can add your contact email at every app you made so you can be contacted easily if users from pirated app want to buy your legal app outside app catalog. And remember don't blame them, don't look down of them, they can be your potential buyers even they used your pirated app.

    My tips maybe can't be accepted by software developers, but maybe can add some additional info for them. Hope all the best for webos developers, and I will support them that make great webos apps.
    Last edited by The Bard; 02/06/2012 at 10:10 PM.
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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by ceveret3 View Post
    I understand you even if the metaphor doesn't really apply to me. And if the movie is really good I might buy the DVD or pay go to more movies by that director. I have paid for may apps from Inglorious so I should have just known it was going to be good, but the video preview was for the phone app not the touchpad version. And there were also some bad reviews as well.

    I am by no way saying Stealing is ok. I was just giving my experience. And maybe giving value to the in app purchase model or try before your buy.
    "I guess I'm a app pirate, but I had a reason." That's the title of this thread. One of the reasons you pirated an app (Casa) was to "try before you buy".

    So again I ask...did you ever sneak into a movie at the theater to "try before you buy"? Or have you always paid for your movie tickets? Movies are so much more money than apps. So since you've done it with an app, I'm certain you've "tried before you buyed" at the movie theater, right? If not, why not?

    And have you ever gone to a movie theater and asked them why they don't let you "try before you buy"? Do you ever advocate sneaking into a movie ("try before you buy") in an online forum such as this? If not, why not?
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
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  12. #12  
    I would say that the movie analogy is kinda weak. Realistically there aren't too many things one can purchase that don't have some kind of return policy, even if they may charge a restocking fee.

    Having said that, I think apps like music remix that have a trial version are very fair to the potential buyer. Also I don't see the stressing over a few dollars for a phone app that one is going to use maybe daily for years.
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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    I would say that the movie analogy is kinda weak. Realistically there aren't too many things one can purchase that don't have some kind of return policy, even if they may charge a restocking fee.

    Having said that, I think apps like music remix that have a trial version are very fair to the potential buyer. Also I don't see the stressing over a few dollars for a phone app that one is going to use maybe daily for years.
    Movie tickets are non-refundable just like webOS apps. Both are non-physical products. And both don't offer a legal "try before you buy" option (assuming no trial versions exist). So how exactly is this analogy weak? It's dead on in every way.

    The only difference between pirating an app and sneaking into a movie theater is that people can't get caught pirating an app. That's why the "I want to try before I buy" justification for piracy is b.s. The OP needed to try a $2 app before he bought it, yet he'll go to a $7 - $10 movie everytime and never feel the need to sneak in to try it.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Movie tickets are non-refundable just like webOS apps. Both are non-physical products. And both don't offer a legal "try before you buy" option (assuming no trial versions exist). So how exactly is this analogy weak? It's dead on in every way.

    The only difference between pirating an app and sneaking into a movie theater is that people can't get caught pirating an app. That's why the "I want to try before I buy" justification for piracy is b.s. The OP needed to try a $2 app before he bought it, yet he'll go to a $7 - $10 movie everytime and never feel the need to sneak in to try it.
    I am with you Dan, pirating an app is not right. Just saying that going to a movie was a bad example in that people go to the movies to be going to the movies and don't much care if it sucks. Like on a date for example. But apps are so cheap I don't get why pirating is necessary. Hell I remember paying $30 for old palm os apps.
    Last edited by laingman; 02/07/2012 at 01:32 AM.
  15. #15  
    Just to get it out of the way.. *cough* strawman argument *cough*

    There are always those that refuse to see the world from any other viewpoint than their own. Reality is complex, it provides an infinite variation between black & white, good & bad, and yet when critical thinking is required it all too often comes down to two shades being argued as best. This argument goes far beyond this corner of the digital universe. If you really look around and have a true sense of parity, (saying nothing of fairness for it's own purposes) you will find many examples where absolutism fails, systems leave gaps, and imbalance persists by design. So if you want to argue the legality of the situation you are best off in court. Beyond that you have to understand that morality is and will always be more gray than most are willing to see at any given time.

    For the record, no I do not advocate copyright infringement. But I also have little to no problem with an individual dealing with a situation in the best manner available to them. No trial software + no distinct refund policy of any kind does not make for parity or good consumer interaction. Copyright infringement is born and bred from ignoring the consumer of your product. Something organizations like the RIAA/MPAA continue to misunderstand.
  16. #16  
    I see it from both sides, and I also agree that the movie going analogy isn't very good, once you have bought your movie ticket you go in and watch that movie once and once only. A movie is a service, part of a day / evening out a social act. An App is none of those things

    I have to confess I am doing currently exactly what the OP has done but with an Android App called Plex as they don't offer a trial version

    The server version is free the TP version whilst in Beta is free and Android version is not

    I am currently trialling different systems including XBMC Tversity and Plex, XBMC & Tversity are both free Plex isnt and have no trial option so I am having to use a pirated version to see if it fits my needs

    There are other cost implications to this so it isnt just a case of 'oh its only a 3 quid app' as I am buying a media server too but it is the client end that will decide the back end

    I no longer go to the movies as it costs too much, I cannot control the noise and actions of the other movie goers, nor the sound system, and as I like to watch my movies in silence with the volume and surround levels at my choosing I wait for the DVD/Blu Ray to come out
  17. #17  
    This is an interesting debate. I'd only add that I find outrageously miserable that people insist in having everything for free, and refuse to pay a ridiculous two quid for someone else's hard effors, yet they spend hundreds in flashy gadgets and broadband connections. I even heard someone say "I download pirate movies to compensate the monthly fee of my ADSL home line".

    Perhaps being nice with people hurting you is a good measure. But some kind of ******* should get what they deserve.
    Pre 3 on GSM Jazztel: UberKernel, Muffle logging & friends, Mode Switcher, Advanced System Menus & Prefs, and then some more.

    Proudly choosing the loser side since 1982: Commodore VIC-20, C-64, Amiga 1000 & 3000, bPlan Pegasos & MorphOS, Psion Revo, Palm Pre...
  18. #18  
    I'm against ripping people off - and grabbing stuff for free that had a price set by its creator is not OK.

    Having said that - I don't see a big problem with the 2 examples given. There was no loss of income in either case. One app was not offered for the device - and eventually didn't run there anyway.
    And in the second case the app was eventually paid for. I don't think devs are really that upset with people who copy an app - try it out for a little bit and then pay. I know I wouldn't be if it was an app that I developed.

    I assume that when devs complain about piracy they are worried about the many cases where people are doing "trials" for the lifetime of the device.

    This is not about starving students who really couldn't afford to pay and might at least serve as multipliers.
    It's also not about people having a look at an app and then ignoring/deleting it - or buying it a bit later.

    The problem is people using other peoples work and then not paying for it even though they could have and otherwise would have. That's where devs loose income that they deserved to get.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
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  19. #19  
    I had a friend of mine decide he wanted to "help" me one day, he was on my PC and ripped off some file that had countless webOS pirated apps. I don't even know how many.......because I erased the file.

    I've bought every single app that I have, and a lot of them, used a half dozen times, and never used them since.

    For the most part, the cost is pretty trivial.....we're talking 2-3 bucks....not a BIG deal, imo.

    (I've spent more, $6, on crappy onion rings from an A&W drive-thru, and couldn't be bothered to turn around and "get what I paid for"......at least with an app there's a potential of an update....onion rings there's a potential for a garbage can.)
    danved likes this.
  20. #20  
    Me: " -Hi! My name is RNP!"
    Everybody in room: "-Hi, RNP!"
    Me: "-I'm clear now, and don't pirate some app since..."
    Everybody in room are in suspense and hold your breaths!
    Me: "-... 10 Minutes ago!"
    Everybody in room: "-HEEEEEEE!!" =clap, clap, clap=

    Well, risking Dan shoot me ( ), I confess: I has pirated some softwares, too...

    So... I live in Rio de Janeiro - Brazil; the land that HP/Palm forgot, and I has no option to many paid softwares in my PrPrPrť $2$, $so$... $I$ $downloaded$ $and$ $installed$.

    When I has the USUnlocked option, I has paid part of the softwares that I was using, but they has problem with my account before I can pay for more ( ) and MP Remix (for example) was not in my first basket!

    Only after my second card with USUnlocked, I finally bought many softwares that I has used from "alternative" sources.

    Just one detail: I has finished "Sparkle" and; when my virtual card was released, I has bought but don't download until now... in the end, I didn't stealed and; yes, used before pay! Ok, is not right, I confess... and I never was thinking in steal some work. I only want to buy!

    Hummm... one doubt: the developers can choice what countries he can release your apps for sale?


    Best Regards...
    Last edited by Rnp; 02/07/2012 at 06:14 AM.
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
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