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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    I am with you Dan, pirating an app is not right. Just saying that going to a movie was a bad example in that people go to the movies to be going to the movies and don't much care if it sucks. Like on a date for example. But apps are so cheap I don't get why pirating is necessary. Hell I remember paying $30 for old palm os apps.
    Exactly right. Apps are so cheap today...it just seems silly to be justifying purchasing one that you really want.
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Hummm... one doubt: the developers can choice what countries he can release your apps for sale?
    We can, but the number of countries are limited to the ones HP supports (i.e. a very small number). My apps are available in all supported countries. I don't see a reason why you'd want to intentionally exclude any country.
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    Eigan likes this.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    So again I ask...did you ever sneak into a movie at the theater to "try before you buy"? Or have you always paid for your movie tickets? Movies are so much more money than apps. So since you've done it with an app, I'm certain you've "tried before you buyed" at the movie theater, right? If not, why not??
    Well i did once. I took friend to see "30 minutes or less" and we were extra early. So after I bought the tickets we sunck into "African Cats" for the first 20 mins. Now by all means the previews for "African Cats" sucked. I thought it was going to be stupid, but it was awesome! So after we left we still wanted to finish "African Cats". So when it came out on dvd we went half on it.

    Inglorious does this same thing. If you bought "pix" or "glimps" you got to beta "notes hd" and "clipboard". I have no need for notes hd, but I know I will get "clipboard" one of these days.
    ArchonAdvisors likes this.
  4. #24  
    According to Impostah I have purchased 167 apps. With the higher price of webOS apps vs. the competition I think that says quite a bit. I do whatever I can to support the ecosystem and developers. That said I have downloaded and sideloaded about ten apps that work perfectly fine on my Pre3/TouchPad but the developers refuse to update to show as Pre3/TouchPad compatible. I don't feel good about it but when I have no way of purchasing said apps I don't feel extremely bad about it. If any one of them were updated where I could officially purchase and download it I would in a second.
    Devices: Pre3 16GB (AT&T - webOS 2.2.4) | White TouchPad 4G 32GB (AT&T - webOS 3.0.5 + LunaCE)
    ArchonAdvisors likes this.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Exactly right. Apps are so cheap today...it just seems silly to be justifying purchasing one that you really want.
    the movie analogy is a good one, except that it doesn't come with a perpetual use license. You can't keep coming back to watch it again with out buying another ticket.

    if I ever found myself needing an app that I couldn't buy through the catalog, I'd send the developer payment via PayPal just to keep my conscience clear. But so far that hasn't happened because my "needs" are simple. I also correct the cashier when they give me too much change. Honesty is always the best policy.
    ArchonAdvisors likes this.
  6. #26  
    I don't see a reason why you'd want to intentionally exclude any country.
    Well, we have here: local law!

    In Brazil, ALL electronic games HAVE to be aproved by our security agency, that tests the games one by one...

    For example, the Apple don't sell games in brazilian AppStore (Jobs could not accept that a country uses his classification in his store, and refused to release here for this!), but deceives the legislation leaving the brazilians buy directly from Argentina with ICC or USA with gift cards without pay the import taxes...

    So, each country have his rules...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bi0tech View Post
    Just to get it out of the way.. *cough* strawman argument *cough*

    There are always those that refuse to see the world from any other viewpoint than their own. Reality is complex, it provides an infinite variation between black & white, good & bad, and yet when critical thinking is required it all too often comes down to two shades being argued as best. This argument goes far beyond this corner of the digital universe. If you really look around and have a true sense of parity, (saying nothing of fairness for it's own purposes) you will find many examples where absolutism fails, systems leave gaps, and imbalance persists by design. So if you want to argue the legality of the situation you are best off in court. Beyond that you have to understand that morality is and will always be more gray than most are willing to see at any given time.

    For the record, no I do not advocate copyright infringement. But I also have little to no problem with an individual dealing with a situation in the best manner available to them. No trial software + no distinct refund policy of any kind does not make for parity or good consumer interaction. Copyright infringement is born and bred from ignoring the consumer of your product. Something organizations like the RIAA/MPAA continue to misunderstand.
    EXACTLY! (*slow clap*) You nailed it on the head. Couldn't be said better.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    OP, have you ever bought a movie ticket at the movie theater? A matinee is about $7 these days if you're lucky. Why did you pay that much when you didn't know if it was going to be good? Sure you had reviews and trailers, but what if the movie was bad? You'd be be wasting $7 (probably more actually). Shouldn't you have snuck into the theater, watch 30 minutes of it, then go back and pay for it?

    If you wouldn't do that, then why do you think it was ok for you to do the same thing with an app that's much cheaper than a night out at the movies? Also an app's usefulness doesn't expire in 2 hours in most cases. And apps have reviews just like movies and many times have video demos (like trailers).
    I'll just leave this here:
    2011 Ticket Sales Down To Where They Were In 1995 - CinemaBlend.com

    The result of your line of thinking, when applied to your theater analogy, is that people will simply start choosing not to take the chance anymore. There are some movies out there these days which are so horrid that even if I'd seen them for free I'd want my TIME back.

    Some food for thought...I'd wager that under a payment model embracing the trial idea you find so abhorrent, the number of garbage movies would dwindle in a hurry, and consumer confidence would go up.

    If you product is good then empower the consumer to really know it.
    fuser-invent likes this.
  9. #29  
    I think if you're connected to the industry, you might understand more whether you agree or not. My brother-in-law is in the movie making business. He's the audio engineer. He's the guy with headphones that's holding the mic on a long metal pole at shoots. He will never download music or movies illegally b/c he knows how much work goes into making them.

    It seems like the OPs viewpoint is, if they don't offer him the product in the way he wants packaged, he will take his own measures to get it the way he wants while not paying for it. This is not about whether you're buying physical, tangible goods or not. A good can be physical and something that's resellable if you so choose to or it can be a service. How do you think IBM makes all its money now? The only physical thing you see from all those consulting hours are in the form of hundreds of pages of powerpoint slides, if someone prints them. How about guy that comes over to clean your carpet? He didn't sell you a physical product. A service is still a product.

    That said, it doesn't matter whether you dislike MPAA, RIAA or whatever. If the concert you wanted to go to is only offered by ticket master and you hated them b/c of all the high fees that you don't agree with, are you going to just sneak into the concert without paying if you knew of a secret entrance to the venue that's not guarded? So if the particular software you wanted didn't come with a trial period, you're just going to get it without paying with your only reason being "I wanted a trial period but this software didn't offer any".
  10. #30  
    Another part of the movie analogy -

    You say that if you like the movie, you will go and buy the DVD. What about the theater owner?

    If you liked the movie, would you go back and pay the box office?
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    if the particular software you wanted didn't come with a trial period, you're just going to get it without paying with your only reason being "I wanted a trial period but this software didn't offer any".
    I don't believe the OP was saying he was keeping anything without paying for it.
  12. #32  
    I can't believe there are people on this forum that try to justify pirating, and have supporters.

    This is disgusting. I'm out.
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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by sq5 View Post
    I don't believe the OP was saying he was keeping anything without paying for it.
    He should have just bought the damned thing. We work hard to try make a living, while the OP / pirates pays hundreds upon hundreds to companies like the electric company, cable, phone, mortgage, car, bank, credit ... practically countless money towards these companies, and then later on has an issue with a meager $1 or $4 which most likely would go to hard working college students looking for some extra cash


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    sledge007 and danved like this.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by bi0tech View Post
    No trial software + no distinct refund policy of any kind does not make for parity or good consumer interaction. Copyright infringement is born and bred from ignoring the consumer of your product. Something organizations like the RIAA/MPAA continue to misunderstand.
    Android has always had a return policy on its apps. Initially it was a full 24 hours which is plenty of time to try an app out. Now it's 15 minutes. But even back when it was 24 hours, there were plenty of pirated Android apps.

    And since you mentioned the RIAA...what about pirated MP3s on torrents and file-sharing networks? I can go to a site like Amazon or iTunes and listen to a 30-90 second portion of a song before buying. I can go to YouTube/Vevo and listen to the whole song of many songs. Yet people still pirate MP3s like crazy.

    Copyright infringement is born from the fact that it's super-easy to get free stuff on the interent without any fear of being caught.
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  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    I can't believe there are people on this forum that try to justify pirating, and have supporters.

    This is disgusting. I'm out.
    I usually value your input fxspec06, but spare the holier-than-thou-art and relax. It's obtuse comments that make me feel compelled to come to the OP's defense.
    Last edited by sq5; 02/07/2012 at 10:49 AM.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by ceveret3 View Post
    Well i did once. I took friend to see "30 minutes or less" and we were extra early. So after I bought the tickets we sunck into "African Cats" for the first 20 mins. Now by all means the previews for "African Cats" sucked. I thought it was going to be stupid, but it was awesome! So after we left we still wanted to finish "African Cats". So when it came out on dvd we went half on it.
    You bought a ticket to a movie. You didn't sneak in without paying.

    I'm talking about walking into the theater, sneaking past the ticket person, and going into the movie. That's the equivalent of downloading a pirated app (for free).
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
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    Twitter: @Hedami
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by cbosdell View Post
    According to Impostah I have purchased 167 apps. With the higher price of webOS apps vs. the competition I think that says quite a bit. I do whatever I can to support the ecosystem and developers. That said I have downloaded and sideloaded about ten apps that work perfectly fine on my Pre3/TouchPad but the developers refuse to update to show as Pre3/TouchPad compatible. I don't feel good about it but when I have no way of purchasing said apps I don't feel extremely bad about it. If any one of them were updated where I could officially purchase and download it I would in a second.
    Did you contact each of those developers to ask why they haven't marked their apps as Pre3/TouchPad compatible? Or if they were planning on doing so?

    There may be a very good reason why the developer doesn't want the app made available to new customers on the Pre 3 or TouchPad. There may be bugs that you may not have noticed, but are still there. I had this issue with my app on the Pre 3 prior to me fixing them. So initially I didn't have it available on the Pre 3 so that new customers wouldn't be burned by an app that didn't work great out of the box.
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Android has always had a return policy on its apps. Initially it was a full 24 hours which is plenty of time to try an app out. Now it's 15 minutes. But even back when it was 24 hours, there were plenty of pirated Android apps.

    And since you mentioned the RIAA...what about pirated MP3s on torrents and file-sharing networks? I can go to a site like Amazon or iTunes and listen to a 30-90 second portion of a song before buying. I can go to YouTube/Vevo and listen to the whole song of many songs. Yet people still pirate MP3s like crazy.

    Copyright infringement is born from the fact that it's super-easy to get free stuff on the interent without any fear of being caught.
    Some people are just plain dishonest thieves. There is no doubt about that. They are an entirely different issue. But to paint over every person with the same broad brush is missing the OP's point for this thread again.

    You're almost forgetting that most people are happy to pay. Apple is rolling in itunes dollars where other players failed in part because of their easy preview and purchase model.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Copyright infringement is born from the fact that it's super-easy to get free stuff on the interent without any fear of being caught.
    Thus the whole reason why it exists and how to destroy it.
    Try diplomacy first. You can always conquer them later...

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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    He should have just bought the damned thing. We work hard to try make a living, while the OP / pirates pays hundreds upon hundreds to companies like the electric company, cable, phone, mortgage, car, bank, credit ... practically countless money towards these companies, and then later on has an issue with a meager $1 or $4 which most likely would go to hard working college students looking for some extra cash


    He did buy the damn thing, actually.
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