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  1.    #1  
    Amazon and Apple still have not agreed on whether Apple is sharing revenues from in-app purchases, apparently Amazon's "buy" button inside the app takes you to its website and Apple's new terms would demand that Amazon strip the button (Sony refused to pay Apple some months ago and either withdrew or changed its app but did not give in).

    This could get interesting on July 1 when TouchPad debuts with the Kindle App as HP is not requiring this type of revenue sharing.

    This type of issue alone is an indicator of why enterprises would want to support another tablet platform and bodes well for HP TouchPad getting some traction, should they execute.

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/15/tech.../apple_kindle/
    Last edited by bluenote; 06/15/2011 at 12:30 PM.
  2. #2  
    JR is on Amazon's Board of Directors - that bodes well for the possibility of a good relationshiip with Amazon for HP and WebOS, but, if it were a choice between the 2 platforms, right now, it would be an incredible revenue loss to lose the iPad sales, even despite Apple's rigid dictatorship on app purchasing policy.

    In all conscience, if I were a BOD member looking to maximimze shareholder value, I'd want both and hope that the TouchPad really takes off so that I could tell Apple with more confidence that they have to meet my payment terms or take their business elsewhere, but, as of right now, if it came down to chosing one or the other, it would be the iPad, unfortunately.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  3.    #3  
    Amazon might be hoping that after a short while without its app in the Apple store, that the Apple users put pressure on Apple to change its terms. But if Apple relaxes its terms with Amazon, then it would have pressure from others to have their terms relaxed--ie Barnes & Noble and all the rest, including non-book publishers.

    Amazon is a distributor so itself only gets a portion of the sales. I would think it would not want to distribute 30% of its revenue to the electronic pipeline distributor as this would have significant ramifications to the profits of its business model as more sales move to electronic books over print books. If I were an Amazon shareholder, I would be significantly concerned that its business model doesn't get altered to have lower profits on its electronic sales as this would impact its value, I would hope Amazon would be doing a lot to encourage the growth of other electronic platforms and perhaps debut its own tablet, as has been rumored it is doing.

    There is a lot at stake here and that is why there is the standoff, could get very interesting for HP.
    Last edited by bluenote; 06/15/2011 at 09:47 AM.
  4. #4  
    I really think Amazon will release their own version of tablet this holiday season. However, they will keep support iPad. They will keep support iPad until nobody buys ipad in the future.
  5.    #5  
    I imagine Apple wants to call the question while it is still a significant large pipeline for the electronic book sales. On the other hand, I imagine it would so impact Amazon's profits (electronic book sales are more profitable than hard book sales but Apple taking a huge share will surely change this).
    Thus, Amazon needs to look around for all the other electronic distribution choices and fend off Apple or at least negotiate significantly better terms.

    At least Amazon is in a better position in some ways than the cable programmers who can get locked out of a large metro market if one cable pipeline carrier decides not to distribute them. Still, even in those cases, we've had situations where the programming or the sports games are not carried for awhile until terms get negotiated.

    This is a fight of the giants, as I said earlier, will be interesting to see what happens.
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    #6  
    seems like alot of publishers are begning to revolt against apples strong arm tactics. With plenty of new hardware arriving inclding the touchpad, apple may have to rethink its strategy going forward.
    i hope they are slow to change their ways. it will give HP and android makers lots of opportunity and we may see a true competitive landscape.
    Want to help design and write an app?
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Interest among publishers is definitely an attempt to not be so dependent on the iOS ecosystem. However, this interest is purely speculative and overstates the interest in these alternative platforms. That is, if there were not a competitive issue between publishers and Apple, publishers probably would not bother with an unproven platform such as webOS.

    Take Epocrates, for example. Epocrates is a creator and publisher of medical reference content. Since most of their content is free, they aren't as concerned with App Store terms. They view webOS for its market share value and have decided that it isn't worth supporting at this time. They have no interest in propping it up as an alternative - unlike other publishers might.
    You never miss an opportunity to knock WebOS, do you, even if it's a far-shot?

    Interest among publishers is definitely an attempt to not be so dependent on the iOS ecosystem.

    No, its all about making more money - if Apple was willing to "share" more, they'd be all much happier.

    However, this interest is purely speculative and overstates the interest in these alternative platforms.

    Well, that sounds like insider information, to me. Do you know something that these publically traded companies are doing that we don't?

    That is, if there were not a competitive issue between publishers and Apple, publishers probably would not bother with an unproven platform such as webOS.

    This is completely wrong: any chance any company gan get to increase revenues, is something to seriously consider, and when a new ecosystem like WebOS emerges from a company like HP, they WILL sit up and take notice, as they seem to be doing.

    Your Epocrates analogy makes no sense, and is irrelevant to this situation. They are application developers, not publishers, like Amazon and Barnes and Noble - they look for one thing and one thing only: distribution - and with the small distribution of medical professionals in an already small WebOS user coomunity, they decided that it wasnt worth it to them to continue supporting the product on this platform... if WebOS takes off over the next year, they will be back.

    Last edited by LCGuy; 06/15/2011 at 10:07 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    The current Kindle app does not meet Apple's less stringent requirements and this is what we are discussing (a per the CNN article I linked to in my first post).
  9. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    In all conscience, if I were a BOD member looking to maximimze shareholder value, I'd want both and hope that the TouchPad really takes off so that I could tell Apple with more confidence that they have to meet my payment terms or take their business elsewhere, but, as of right now, if it came down to chosing one or the other, it would be the iPad, unfortunately.
    If you were a BOD member, you'd be able to plan more than one step ahead and you'd realize that heavily supporting platforms other than Apple will allow those platforms with more favorable terms to succeed (and share the wealth with you) while the platform with less favorable terms can go bite the dust instead of supporting the platform that basically tells you "our way or the highway" simply because it is already successful (and unwilling to share the wealth with you).
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Take Epocrates, for example. Epocrates is a creator and publisher of medical reference content. Since most of their content is free, they aren't as concerned with App Store terms. They view webOS for its market share value and have decided that it isn't worth supporting at this time.
    Epocrates' target group is doctors. American doctors, since drug names and similar information is country-specific. If memory serves, medical doctors should make up about a third of a percent of the US population. That means that maybe a sixth of a percent of webOS users is even interested in Epocrates - making for a really, REALLY small number of people that Epocrates can reach on webOS.

    Meanwhile, Amazon's target group is readers. Any and all readers since Kindle is international. Every single webOS user is a potential reader (I'm assuming that the illiterate crowd comprises a rather small subset of smartphone users even though looking at App Catalog reviews makes me think that this assumption may be overly optimistic). That's a much bigger number of people.
    Last edited by GodShapedHole; 06/15/2011 at 12:22 PM.
  10. #11  
    U
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    The current Kindle app does not meet Apple's less stringent requirements and this is what we are discussing (a per the CNN article I linked to in my first post).
    Your link hits a 404 and currently the iOS Kindle app does meet the new requirements.

    You can't browse titles to purchase within the app, only view books which you have purchased from Amazon via their Kindle site.

    11.14 Apps can read or play approved content (specifically magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, and video) that is subscribed to or purchased outside of the app, as long as there is no button or external link in the app to purchase the approved content. Apple will not receive any portion of the revenues for approved content that is subscribed to or purchased outside of the app
    Am I completely misunderstanding that?
  11.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    U

    Your link hits a 404 and currently the iOS Kindle app does meet the new requirements.

    You can't browse titles to purchase within the app, only view books which you have purchased from Amazon via their Kindle site.

    Am I completely misunderstanding that?
    I corrected the link. Yes the issue is the buy button inside the app.
  12. #13  
    Hi all,

    I have been asked to cross post this item into this thread. Since I don't have an Apple device I don't know the specifics. However, I am sure all of you will figure it out.

    Take care,

    Jay

    Hi all,

    FYI. Please see the link for the balance of this article.

    Take care,

    Jay

    June 30: Judgment Day for Amazon's Kindle on Apple's App Store
    By Jason Perlow | June 16, 2011, 7:59pm PDT

    June 30: Judgment Day for Amazon's Kindle on Apple's App Store | ZDNet

    Time is running out for Amazon and other e-book sellers to comply with Apple’s demands to implement in-app purchases on the App Store by June 30, 2011.

    June 30th, 2011 will be remembered as e-Book Judgment Day on Apple’s App Store.

    Back in February, Apple changed a number of its rules concerning in-app purchases by content providers as well as for e-Book sellers. Essentially, if you provided a method for purchasing content outside of the application, you also had to include a native in-app purchase mechanism as well, so that Apple could get a 30 percent cut on each purchase.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  13. #14  
    Looks like Hulu has already adhered to the new guidelines, I suspect Amazon will follow shortly. All they need to do to adhere is remove one simple button.
    http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/20/h...n-rules-other/
  14.    #15  
    excerpt from allthingsd:

    "My hunch is that digital video and music companies like Netflix and Rhapsody will follow Hulu’s lead and drop their “buy” buttons. The New York Times has already said it would work with Apple’s rules, but that was back when it announced its paywall/subscription plan in March, when it had a different set of options. I asked Times officials about their plans 10 days ago, and they declined to comment.

    Also not commenting: The Wall Street Journal — which again, like this Web site, is owned by News Corp. The Journal hasn’t said a peep about its Apple subscription plans, which seems a bit odd, given that News Corp. and Apple rolled out the first iteration of Apple’s subscription offering, via The Daily, back in February.

    Rival business daily the Financial Times, meanwhile, has quite clearly signaled what it plans to do: It has built an HTML5 Web app so it can control every part of the subscription process itself.

    Then there’s Amazon, which seems to be one of the clear targets of Apple’s revised rules – note that they specifically rule out the use of a “buy” button that goes to a Web site to purchase a digital book. Hard to believe that Amazon will get rid of its Kindle iOS apps altogether, since they’re a key feature of the Kindle ecosystem. But dropping the app’s “buy” button will be a real drag for the bookseller, too."

    Hulu Adapts iPad App to New Apple Rules - Peter Kafka - Media - AllThingsD
  15. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    excerpt from allthingsd:

    "My hunch is that digital video and music companies like Netflix and Rhapsody will follow Hulu’s lead and drop their “buy” buttons. The New York Times has already said it would work with Apple’s rules, but that was back when it announced its paywall/subscription plan in March, when it had a different set of options. I asked Times officials about their plans 10 days ago, and they declined to comment.

    Also not commenting: The Wall Street Journal — which again, like this Web site, is owned by News Corp. The Journal hasn’t said a peep about its Apple subscription plans, which seems a bit odd, given that News Corp. and Apple rolled out the first iteration of Apple’s subscription offering, via The Daily, back in February.

    Rival business daily the Financial Times, meanwhile, has quite clearly signaled what it plans to do: It has built an HTML5 Web app so it can control every part of the subscription process itself.

    Then there’s Amazon, which seems to be one of the clear targets of Apple’s revised rules – note that they specifically rule out the use of a “buy” button that goes to a Web site to purchase a digital book. Hard to believe that Amazon will get rid of its Kindle iOS apps altogether, since they’re a key feature of the Kindle ecosystem. But dropping the app’s “buy” button will be a real drag for the bookseller, too."

    Hulu Adapts iPad App to New Apple Rules - Peter Kafka - Media - AllThingsD
    Apple is going to control the subscription process thru the new newstand app.
  16. #17  
    Given Kindle's ubiquity, I highly doubt removing the “Kindle Store” button will have much (if any) affect on sales.

    If a user has only ‘i’ devices the chance of them using Kindle as opposed to iBooks is slim. Kindle users on iOS are likely to have migrated from an actual Kindle or acquired their content elsewhere so they're familiar with how to acquire their content (there's only one way: amazon.com).

    Just just an assumption, not factual, so I could be completely wrong.
  17. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    No, its all about making more money - if Apple was willing to "share" more, they'd be all much happier.
    Hi all,

    Thank you, I agree with everything you said!

    Don't you think it's also about power as well as money???

    After all, a few months a ago, (it may have been the end of last year or the beginning of this year), Apple wanted all future Apps written only in their programming language as it would be harder to port those to webOS and other platforms....

    Not just did App writers kick up a fuss, the DOJ started nosing around as well....Apple is already being sued by a number of States as well as a number of private lawsuits over Apple business practices in regard to how it runs the Itunes store, (which Apps it allows, how much money a song or book will be allowed to be sold for etc.).....Apple then promptly dropped the demand.....

    So IMHO it's not just money, current & future market share it's also about power....the true Irony of it is that Apple is behaving much the way that Apple complained MS was acting years ago.....

    Take care,

    jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  18. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    So IMHO it's not just money, current & future market share it's also about power....the true Irony of it is that Apple is behaving much the way that Apple complained MS was acting years ago.....
    No surprise. Every company would do the same when they had the opportunity. Once you've gained a remarkable market share you have to work to keep that.
  19. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by FischOderAal View Post
    No surprise. Every company would do the same when they had the opportunity. Once you've gained a remarkable market share you have to work to keep that.
    Hi all,

    In that case, it makes me so glad that the 24 years I ran my business thankfully we were a small company! LOL

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group

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