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  1.    #41  
    @taharka: Crazy, right? It's like being send a bill for $0.01. Didn't it cost more than that to MAIL THE BILL? And $1.49? Pft. What am I gona do with that, buy a hamburger at McDonald's?? At first it was just a curiosity, then the more I got the run-around, the more irritated I became. We've all been there, right?
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    Uh, wow. I thought I'd read that apps that you purchase have a backup copy stored in the cloud so that if it's ever pulled, you can still keep it? Hmm, shady.

    So seriously, what's the name of the app? I hardly see the reason to protect a dev you say defrauded you out of an app.
    This was never stated by Palm.

    In fact, their specific terms state that you get no refunds and that if an app is removed by a dev or Palm, you cannot re-download it, though you can get a refund if it isn't available.
    Last edited by Arthur Thornton; 09/05/2010 at 12:29 AM.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  3. #43  
    There's a free BAC app recently posted in Preware if you're interested.
  4. #44  
    I didn't think you could pay for Beta apps??
  5.    #45  
    @jjeffcoat: This was about not being able to find a "similar" app, but about not being able to re-download (or be refunded for) a specific app that was purchased.

    What if you paid $6 for an app from EA, then it disappeared and you couldn't download it? Or how about a worse situation: What if you purchased "Classic" on June 6, 2009 after standing in line to get a Pre on launch day (i did this, I wanted to use my old apps until the app catalog caught up). That was $30. What if I had to wipe my phone tomorrow, and I couldn't download it? I'd. Be. ****ed.

    The cost is irrelevant, it's the situation that's intolerable.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    I didn't think you could pay for Beta apps??
    yes. As an example you can look up an app in preware called 'iphone plus' which is in beta but requires you to buy it. Obviously the expectation is you wouldn't have to buy it again when it finally gets released in the palm app catalog.
  7. #47  
    IPhone Plus is in the "Web Distribution" catalog. It may be called a beta by the developer but they can legally charge for it. Only apps in the official Beta Channel (Clearly deleniated by the green background in the app feed) are automatically free.
    Stan Toney
    ---
    My Apps: What's the Tip | GamersAid - BETA
    My Site : Firm Foundation Technology - Mobile Apps for Practical Problems
  8. #48  
    Was just trying to be helpful......
    My device history:

    - Jim J.

    (On Sprint for many years)
  9. #49  
    Caveat emptor. Though good customer service dictates that you be given a refund almost immediately, chances are that someone wanted a good look into this one, and possibly just to get more information on the developer and not to waste your time. Just say'n, cause I've worked customer service before.
  10. #50  
    How dare Palm approach the situation by thinking about the implications this could have for everyone instead of merely pandering to the whining of an individual.
    From those mythical lands beyond the great USA...

    It is a convergence device not mankind's disc/filmography.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    How dare Palm approach the situation by thinking about the implications this could have for everyone instead of merely pandering to the whining of an individual.
    Actually they've made the situation slightly worse for themselves. And it's a "customer" not just an "individual". Perhaps that is the problem.

    FWIW: I would not have submitted phone logs to palm either, especially after providing them with a copy of a receipt they they issued. Would you allow Best Buy (or [insert any company that sells software] access to your computer logs as a way to prove that you had purchased software from them after providing them with a receipt that proves the purchase? The arrogance of some people.

    Phone logs for "a technical issue" I can understand.
  12. #52  
    Wow -- thanks for the very thorough description. Your problem is indeed Palm's problem, as it points to a fundamental flaw in their management of app developers. It would seem at its surface to be a philosophical issue -- that Palm was and is so eager to court app developers that it never crossed their minds how they would deal with a problem of an app developer abusing the system. It would seem the review process doesn't even factor in whether a developer has produced an application by a different name that does the same thing, which would at minimum offer developers the potential to spam the app catalog with clones of the same application. Of course they could just as easily do what has happened here, which is to produce an app that you found worth having, but most people found to be sub-standard, and simply re-issue the app to avoid the consequences of negative reviews. This needs to get fixed, but more importantly, Palm needs to re-evaluate the structure of its customer support system, as it clearly failed to handle a simple matter, essentially leaving the resolution to you, rather than handling it themselves, as is warranted since the receipt for payment is from Palm.

    Even more critically for Palm, this is their fledgling platform, how could they possibly find it acceptable to allow the contamination of such a small app catalog with unsavory developers? If the app catalog develops a reputation for bad apps AND it's microscopic compared to the competition, how could any sane person want to switch to WebOS?

    That said, I heart WebOS. Please don't flame me.
    My mobile biography: Nokia 5181i & 3589i -- Motorola v60i & A630 -- Palm Treo 650, Centro, Pre Plus, MyTouch 4G Slide, Pre 2, Pre 3, Nokia Lumia 521, Veer
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by antijingoist View Post
    chances are that someone wanted a good look into this one, and possibly just to get more information on the developer and not to waste your time.
    Possible. However, looking into a developer is not something that a "customer" should be burdened with. After being presented with a receipt that your company has issued, the case should have been closed right there and then as far as the consumer's involvement was concerned.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by OrlandoAlex View Post
    ...more importantly, Palm needs to re-evaluate the structure of its customer support system, as it clearly failed to handle a simple matter, essentially leaving the resolution to you, rather than handling it themselves, as is warranted since the receipt for payment is from Palm.
    And BINGO was his name-o!

    What's even more troubling is that they have no records that a product they've been selling ever existed. I don't think I would have even told mentioned that to the customer. "Sir, I know that's a receipt we issued to you, but the computer system says it didn't happen. Sorry." Really?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by ihatethisregistration View Post
    I contacted Palm, and in a nutshell they said that they
    couldn't find the app in the app catalog and had no proof that
    it ever existed or that I'd purchased it (even when I sent
    them my receipt, date of purchase, and invoice number FROM
    PALM).
    Send a PM to HardBeatZ who is a Palm Support rep on this forum. Maybe he can help you out.

    Better yet, I just did it for you.
  16.    #56  
    @Trekker: Thanks :-D

    @OrlandoAlex: I heart Palm and WebOS too, that makes this even worse, it's like being betrayed by your best friend. :-(
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Actually they've made the situation slightly worse for themselves. And it's a "customer" not just an "individual". Perhaps that is the problem.

    FWIW: I would not have submitted phone logs to palm either, especially after providing them with a copy of a receipt they they issued. Would you allow Best Buy (or [insert any company that sells software] access to your computer logs as a way to prove that you had purchased software from them after providing them with a receipt that proves the purchase? The arrogance of some people.

    Phone logs for "a technical issue" I can understand.
    I doubt Palm disputes the purchase. The issue here is a flaw in the system that Palm are legitimately investigating for the good of everyone. All a receipt does is prove purchase. Palm clearly want more detailed information. It is being both selfish and misguided to make a complaint and then refuse to help resolve it.

    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    And BINGO was his name-o!

    What's even more troubling is that they have no records that a product they've been selling ever existed. I don't think I would have even told mentioned that to the customer. "Sir, I know that's a receipt we issued to you, but the computer system says it didn't happen. Sorry." Really?
    As I said previously support is not equal. Different departments and levels have access to different information and an ability to do different things. It is perfectly understandable for the lower levels of support to only have access to the current app catalogue and basic information which is why it was passed to a higher level in a bid to resolve the issue. It is normal.
    From those mythical lands beyond the great USA...

    It is a convergence device not mankind's disc/filmography.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    I doubt Palm disputes the purchase. The issue here is a flaw in the system that Palm are legitimately investigating for the good of everyone. All a receipt does is prove purchase. Palm clearly want more detailed information. It is being both selfish and misguided to make a complaint and then refuse to help resolve it.
    Requesting the "help" of a consumer is very different from forcing the issue by making the demand for that help part of the resolution. As you've stated, the receipt proved the purchase, that should resolved the issue right there. Asking a customer to help out by turning over potentially personal information should NEVER be a requirement for a case like this. The company owed something to the customer per the company's terms. There was nothing owed by the customer to the company other than proof of purchase, again, per the company's terms. So if a party was being selfish and misguided in this situation it was Palm; not the customer.

    I've purchased software online where you get both a receipt and a license key sent via email. I've lost the key for more than one product and was able to call said company and give them proof of purchase in order to recover my key and re-download the product. I have never had a company request my computer logs during this process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    As I said previously support is not equal. Different departments and levels have access to different information and an ability to do different things. It is perfectly understandable for the lower levels of support to only have access to the current app catalogue and basic information which is why it was passed to a higher level in a bid to resolve the issue. It is normal.
    I agree with you on this. However the problem is that they've taken an issue that is an internal issue and made the resolution of the consumer's issue contingent upon it. There's the rub. You can not/should not try to force a user to hand over their log files to resolve an issue that has nothing to do with that user. The log files could have been requested as part of a follow up investigation and not demanded as part of the issue resolution. The customer can always say "no, I'm not giving you my log files". It is their right, even if it means the company will have a harder time resolving their internal issues as this is NOT the consumer's responsibility.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Requesting the "help" of a consumer is very different from forcing the issue by making the demand for that help part of the resolution. As you've stated, the receipt proved the purchase, that should resolved the issue right there. Asking a customer to help out by turning over potentially personal information should NEVER be a requirement for a case like this. The company owed something to the customer per the company's terms. There was nothing owed by the customer to the company other than proof of purchase, again, per the company's terms. So if a party was being selfish and misguided in this situation it was Palm; not the customer.
    You continually ignore/dismiss my point about how support works at different levels, what they can do and what they are allowed to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I've purchased software online where you get both a receipt and a license key sent via email. I've lost the key for more than one product and was able to call said company and give them proof of purchase in order to recover my key and re-download the product. I have never had a company request my computer logs during this process.
    This is a pointless comment because the situations are completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    I agree with you on this. However the problem is that they've taken an issue that is an internal issue and made the resolution of the consumer's issue contingent upon it. There's the rub. You can not/should not try to force a user to hand over their log files to resolve an issue that has nothing to do with that user. The log files could have been requested as part of a follow up investigation and not demanded as part of the issue resolution. The customer can always say "no, I'm not giving you my log files". It is their right, even if it means the company will have a harder time resolving their internal issues as this is NOT the consumer's responsibility.
    We are only getting one side of the story and I highly doubt Palm said anything along the lines of 'it wasn't their problem'. As it is there is a issue that needs investigated and due to the nature of the problem the initial levels of support we unable to resolve it. It is currently at a level where someone is actively doing something instead of following the usual script but unfortunately the user in question reached this level and simply gave up. That is his prerogative and his problem. He lost the right to whine the second he did so.
    Last edited by Teso Dos Bichos; 09/06/2010 at 06:51 PM.
    From those mythical lands beyond the great USA...

    It is a convergence device not mankind's disc/filmography.
  20.    #60  
    @Treso Dos Bichos: A couple of things. First, how does not sending logs from a phone that was recently wiped magically make an app appear in the app catalog? If palm can't find an app in the app catalog then nothing from my phone is going to make it exsist again.

    To say, "...he lost the right to whine the second he did so" is ridiculous.

    Let's look at it a different way. You buy a soda. You're poisined by it and taken to a hospital where you receive emergency care. You ask the soda company to pay your hospital bills. The company in question then asks for your receipt (to verify you purchased it), and the rest of the soda (to test for poison). The company finds the poison and learns that other batches have been poisoned too. Do they pay your hospital bill? No. They ask for you to send your diary and sunglasses in (has nothing to do with the poisoned drink). "My diary and sunglasses?", you think, "I need those for writing in and seeing on a bright day, and it they have nothing to do with the poison. I'm not sending something personal that has nothing to do with a problem the company already admitted happened!" Aparently, this person would not be able to complain about their skyrocketing hospital bills because they weren't willing to send in things that had no relevance whatsoever to the problem. That's too bad, poor whiner. Stay poisoned.

    Point two: You have nothing nice or constructive to say about this, and we all dismiss and vehemantly refute your position, why don't you find some other thread to troll in?
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