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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by amateurhack View Post
    What's allowable in the GPL is really irrelevant. Palm just has to add a clause to the app catalog submission terms that says, "we reserve the right to not distribute your app for any reason..." and they could fix this,
    Yeah see, but that is where I see that they would "break" this. Palm sure doesn't look like my mommy, they shouldn't try to act like my mommy.

    I'm an adult, I'll choose for myself who I care to do business with. Either Palm acts as a program aggregator (with basic quality controls to make sure programs actually work on the phone) or they act like a nanny with a closed system. If they do the later, I’ll likely look to take my business elsewhere the next time my contract comes due.

    -Suntan
  2. tuxpower's Avatar
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    #62  
    Dunno if anyone's checked or not, but search for gnu.org and gpl-violation...
    Especially if credit is NOT given...
    (I'm not allowed to post the exact URL - my post count isn't that high yet *sigh*)
  3. #63  
    What would be nice if Appible would add a splash screen or modify the help screen to say something like "LDS Media powered by Dr Podder"
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Yeah see, but that is where I see that they would "break" this. Palm sure doesn't look like my mommy, they shouldn't try to act like my mommy.

    I'm an adult, I'll choose for myself who I care to do business with. Either Palm acts as a program aggregator (with basic quality controls to make sure programs actually work on the phone) or they act like a nanny with a closed system. If they do the later, I’ll likely look to take my business elsewhere the next time my contract comes due.

    -Suntan
    Well, they already are being "your mommy" as they do have criteria for apps distributed to the catalog. And just because they reserve a right doesn't mean they have to use it. I would bet the language is already there, and I bet if there is enough furor and negative attention around a particular app that they will pull it.

    Like I said in a previous post, it's no different than an app containing explicit ____ography. Palm isn't going to allow that, so they don't have to allow this.

    Bottom line is: if Palm does not remove the app from the catalog, then it is likely that it will remain for as long as the developer chooses to leave it there because there's no legal (gpl or otherwise) case for forcing it to be removed.
  5. #65  
    I hate all the janky apps by the janky developers. however palm still needs them to get there app count up. its pretty bad to directly copy someones work and claim it as your own.
    Palm Pro->m505->Zodiac 2->Treo 680->Treo Pro->Pre+
  6. #66  
    An Open Letter to drnull:


    RE: PreCentral.net forum thread “Is this legal? LDS Media is a ripoff of Dr Podder!!”


    Dear drnull,

    We want to apologize that our actions and/or omissions have been a cause for lost time, hard feelings and frustration. As of the time of this writing, there are over 60 posts on the above listed thread. Much of the conversation has been heated. We are sorry that you were included in such a thread’s discussion without your provocation, and that you felt compelled to formally respond to an issue that you didn’t create.

    Foremost, we wish to apologize for not placing our acknowledgment of your work and the expression of our gratitude for your generous licensing of the drPodder application in a more prominent place for all to see. Omitting the credits from the “LDS Media” application description in the Palm App Catalog was not meant as a slight or discourtesy to you. However, it is clear now - in response to these reactions - that to have not included the credits in the application description is an offense against the etiquette of the Palm developer community. We were unaware of this expectation, but are nonetheless sorry for the grief that it has caused and for the perceived lack of respect for the community and especially you - individually - that it has displayed.

    We have added to our LDS Media description to acknowledge your work and to express our appreciation to you. This addition was submitted to Palm for review on June 21st.

    We wish to make it clear that we have always acknowledged your work within the LDS Media application under the “Credits” page. Here is an excerpt from that page:

    “We wish to thank all those who have contributed their work through generous licensing.

    This program incorporates code from drPodder Copyright (C) 2010 drnull. We are very grateful for his invaluable contribution to the Palm WebOS community with his open source work.”


    We hold your work - the drPodder application - in the highest regard. It is the best podcasting application that we have ever encountered, on any mobile platform. We were delighted to leave one of the scores of 5 star reviews for your application in the Palm App Catalog.

    It was during the planning stages of the LDS Media application that we became aware of your prior decision to open source the code for your drPodder application. We were thrilled to find that one of the best webOS applications was being offered to other developers to use in their own applications. We are sincerely grateful for your selfless contribution. Our efforts in developing LDS Media as a product were drastically reduced as a result of your work. As the primary function of the LDS Media application is to download and play a particular setlist of podcasts, we feel we would have been foolish not to use your well-polished source code.

    We recognize that there are requirements for using open source software based upon the terms of the license agreement under which it was licensed. Under the GPL license, we feel we have met these requirements in full.

    Yet we have also consciously made efforts not to detract from your customer base. A primary differentiation between our applications is that we market LDS Media exclusively for consuming a very specific set of podcasts. In other words, it is marketed as a dedicated application for LDS related media. And while the functionality of adding additional podcast feeds was not disabled in our implementation of your source code, we do not advertise it in the application description that this functionality exists. Thus, our customers are not purchasing LDS Media as a general purpose podcasting utility.

    Further, we have purposefully set the price of LDS Media higher than your drPodder application as another good faith measure to not directly compete with your product in the general purpose podcasting application target market. (To avoid a situation where customers who would have purchased your application may instead purchase and repurpose our application because it is less expensive.)

    We hope that this letter adequately conveys our position, our regret for trouble this has caused, and our sincere appreciation for your fine work and generous contributions to the Palm developer community.

    Very Truly,

    Josiah Carlson
    Appible LLC
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Appible View Post
    An Open Letter to drnull:

    RE: PreCentral.net forum thread “Is this legal? LDS Media is a ripoff of Dr Podder!!”

    ....

    Very Truly,

    Josiah Carlson
    Appible LLC
    And I guess that you think that the price is a fair reflection of the enhancements that you made to the code?
    Last edited by johncc; 06/23/2010 at 02:25 AM.
  8. drnull's Avatar
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Appible View Post
    An Open Letter to drnull:
    ...
    We have added to our LDS Media description to acknowledge your work and to express our appreciation to you. This addition was submitted to Palm for review on June 21st.

    We wish to make it clear that we have always acknowledged your work within the LDS Media application under the “Credits” page. Here is an excerpt from that page:

    “We wish to thank all those who have contributed their work through generous licensing.

    This program incorporates code from drPodder Copyright (C) 2010 drnull. We are very grateful for his invaluable contribution to the Palm WebOS community with his open source work.”
    Personally, I see this as a show of good faith (no pun intended). Appible and other app producers are in the business of making specialized apps for small groups of consumers. I referred to this as "spam" but I can envision an instance where an uneducated consumer wants to listen to some LDS podcasts, but doesn't want to have to worry about finding all the url's and loading them into a general podcast application. That's the niche that Appible is filling.

    The only slight I felt was that there was no "public" reference to drPodder. I had never purchased the LDS Media, and since the source code wasn't publicly available, I wasn't aware of the copyright references in the Credits page. But that along with the updated description should sufficiently credit drPodder.

    RE: Charging for GPL'ed apps. I am charging for distribution and support. Trust me, the support is quite a larger beast than I thought it would be. Appible is charging for the bundled inclusion of 30 podcast feeds, as well as distribution and support. They are allowed to set the price at what they see fit - and webOS users are allowed to purchase or not as we see fit.

    RE: Palm blocking this type of app. Do you really want an ecosystem where apps can be rejected on a whim? Isn't that part of what keeps you away from the fruity ecosystem? I know it is for me, even though their hardware is awesome.

    I still have some things to learn about open source. But other than publicly providing the source code, it looks like Appible is being up front about all of this. And according to some in this thread, publicly providing the source code is not as clear of a requirement as I thought.

    Regardless, as stated earlier, I have no qualms with Appible, and no claims (obviously) to any proceeds from the LDS Media app.

    Really interesting discussion, though!
  9. #69  
    With the addition of this statement of credit in the app catalogue description, Appible has fulfilled both the legal requirements and moral conventions of the GPL.

    Once again, drnull has been a leading example of a professional approach to the sale of open source applications.

    I see this as a good resolution of this issue by Appible.

    -- Rod
  10.    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Appible View Post
    An Open Letter to drnull:


    RE: PreCentral.net forum thread “Is this legal? LDS Media is a ripoff of Dr Podder!!”


    Dear drnull,

    We want to apologize ....
    We hope that this letter adequately conveys our position, our regret for trouble this has caused, and our sincere appreciation for your fine work and generous contributions to the Palm developer community.

    Very Truly,

    Josiah Carlson
    Appible LLC

    Wow, So there's actually a real person behind Appible? Question, do you guys make profit from your apps? I look at the download counts and considering its $50 to submit an app, i can't figure out the profit you guys make. I'm in no position to call your apps 'spam', but let's be honest here. You wouldn't buy your own apps! (even with a gun to your head)
  11. neve's Avatar
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    #71  
    Nicely said, Appible.
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