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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    There are simply not enough people who want an Apple-like experience that will not buy an Apple product.
    Tell that to the millions of people who've bought Android devices. If Google's done nothing else, they've shown that Apple's hold over the smartphone market as anything but complete. There's plenty of room for another good competitor, and with HP's financial and other resources webOS will do just find.

    Incidentally, I agree that Apple introduced some new things into the smartphone market, like the multitouch display (a good thing), a media ecosystem (mixed), and the closed app system (a bad thing, ultimately). Other than that, they didn't do anything spectacular.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    ...and the closed app system (a bad thing, ultimately).
    Really? That closed app system produces the quality apps that Palm fans can't wait to get ported.

    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    ...Other than that, they didn't do anything spectacular.
    Really? Tell that to all the people who are tipping over all those free Pre phones to get to the full priced iPhone.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post

    Really? Tell that to all the people who are tipping over all those free Pre phones to get to the full priced iPhone.
    Of all the people I know who hav iPhone, they said they got it because others had it and the advertisements said it was good. They don't even know what the webos devices can do.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Really? That closed app system produces the quality apps that Palm fans can't wait to get ported.



    Really? Tell that to all the people who are tipping over all those free Pre phones to get to the full priced iPhone.
    i seem to have been under the impression that the pdk access was responsible for the "quality apps that Palm fans can't wait to get ported", as well as mic & camera access and so on....not the closed app system

    you're also right...the fact that the iphone manages to fool people into thinking it was (and still is) the best out there is pretty spectacular, so i guess that should be added to the list of spectacular stuff it's done
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by notalexrz View Post
    i seem to have been under the impression that the pdk access was responsible for the "quality apps that Palm fans can't wait to get ported", as well as mic & camera access and so on....not the closed app system
    That's funny. All those apps being ported were written for the iPhone's "closed" system. WebOS is much more open. Why were those apps not written for WebOS? It seems that a "Closed app system has produced the most lustworthy apps around. How is that possible? Apple must have fooled all those developers too.

    Do you know how ridiculous your position seems? On the one hand, you want to copy, port, steal, (choose whatever term you like) the iPhone app catalogue. Yet on the other hand, you say that the closed nature of the app catalogue is a bad thing. Why not port those Android apps? Oh, because those are just iPhone ports too.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    How is that possible? Apple must have fooled all those developers too.
    ummm, i believe what made that possible was "sales"...not a closed app system. if webos had been the one selling like crazy (yes, i know they aren't) and had apple been struggling, where do u think the developers would have gone? do u think they would have stayed with apple? if u do then that just proves that you're one of the people that apple has fooled. oh...and if "my position" is ridiculous to you, imagine how your (coming to another phones forum and talking bad about it because your phone's forum is obviously too boring and uneventful) position seems to the rest of us.

    oh and the porting isnt done by hacking someone's iphone apps, its done by the app developer...meaning that they can do whatever the eff they wanna do with their app...including porting it to webos
    Last edited by notalexrz; 05/29/2010 at 07:02 PM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by notalexrz View Post
    ummm, i believe what made that possible was "sales"...
    Sales? You mean to tell me that people by the scores of millions are buying iPhoneOS devices and spending gobs of money on apps in the "closed" app store? Is that the same app store that is stifling developers and consumers and limiting what can be made and purchased? Are those the same apps you want ported to WebOS? Is that the 150,000 apps and counting app store?
    Are these mind controlled Apple fan zombies the same people that are overwhelming Windows users? Tell me again how the "closed" app system has proven to be such a bad thing.
  8. #28  
    All i can say is: Wait for flash!

    Then you get 100's of 1000 of free amazing games.

    With the "save page to launcher" you can have a different icon for different games.



    Adobe says flash will be ready in june for smartphones. Give palm a month to implement it, and we should have it by the end of july...
  9. #29  
    I'll never pay for a Sirius app unless they let you stream Howard. So far that is a no go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett92C View Post
    Oh, definitely. I would pay for a Sirius app and subscription!
  10. #30  
    Without the iPod (and the "automatic" user base) the iPhone sits at #2 maybe even number 3. The 2G iPhone was an EXTREMELY mediocre phone in terms of functions (no copy\paste, video, MMS, etc). My Centro did plenty more things than the iPhone as did numerous other smartphones.

    And guess what? PalmOS has (had) about 60,000 apps available to download too. With 99% of all iPod users upgrading to the "iPod that makes calls", it was an automatic hit. No iPod, no instant hit. Check the link in my sig for a refresher on the 2G iPhones glaring issues.

    (p.s. Fruit Disciples buy anything that 'ol Jobs says as long as he puts them up on a dark blue screen and uses "Magical" and "revolutionary" during the presentation...)
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    All i can say is: Wait for flash!

    Then you get 100's of 1000 of free amazing games.

    With the "save page to launcher" you can have a different icon for different games.



    Adobe says flash will be ready in june for smartphones. Give palm a month to implement it, and we should have it by the end of july...
    I "LOVE" your optimistic view. That's exactly what everyone should do. I mean the pre owners since june of 09 should just wait. It's not like their used to it.


    /sarcasm....
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Sales? You mean to tell me that people by the scores of millions are buying iPhoneOS devices and spending gobs of money on apps in the "closed" app store? Is that the same app store that is stifling developers and consumers and limiting what can be made and purchased? Are those the same apps you want ported to WebOS? Is that the 150,000 apps and counting app store?
    Are these mind controlled Apple fan zombies the same people that are overwhelming Windows users? Tell me again how the "closed" app system has proven to be such a bad thing.
    This is a silly argument because it's a non-sequitur. Open system, closed system - none of this has anything to do with sales. Apple attracts developers because there is a larger market to profit from, period. As long as there is a large pool to sell to, the will continue to have developers focus on them. Wait until the smartphone spreads to China, doesn't matter what type of system they have or what type OS those phones run - 1 BILLION users will attract developers.

    Apple - and I 'm not a hater of any of the phone makers - didn't invent the smartphone, they were just another step in the popularization of phone. Before them it was the Treo's and Centros. Along with them it will be the Androids and possibly the Palm products.

    The closed system won't kill Apple, but may eventually hurt them. It is what hurt them in PC sales, which as great as their products are touted to be, they have NEVER recovered from that misstep. Once competitive alternatives become more established in the market - I can guarantee you that you'll see the restrictions loosen. If I can get products on other platforms that I can't get on iPhones, people will start to seek alternative. You don't think Apple is noticing Android right now.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    I "LOVE" your optimistic view. That's exactly what everyone should do. I mean the pre owners since june of 09 should just wait. It's not like their used to it.


    /sarcasm....
    I've owned my Pre since last June

    We've been told over and over again that "Flash is coming soon!". However, with Flash being released for Android 2.2, it seems we will actually get Flash soon. I'm still not getting my hopes up though...
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    I "LOVE" your optimistic view. That's exactly what everyone should do. I mean the pre owners since june of 09 should just wait. It's not like their used to it.


    /sarcasm....
    I've been a pre owner since august, but have been waiting longer than most. I went about 6 months without a phone in order to get the pre. Flash got pushed back, because of the apple/ adobe fight. That made adobe want to make sure their product releases at amazing quality.So it got pushed back, and adobe improved it alot. It's already in beta for android, and will be coming of beta next month. Palm will follow. the only problem is that the pre at 500 mhz isn't that fast. Those of us who have overclocked pres will do much better.


    and what do you mean, should pre owners wait? They kind of have to. Unless they want to go to another platform. Some of us actually like the platform, and are happy with the way things are progressing. Look at the iphone, or android in it's first year, It didn't grow nearly as quickly as web-os did, and the companies are much bigger, with much more recourses.

    Run web-os doctor 1.0/1.1 and only use apps from that where available back then.. Until august it only had 50 apps. Now they are up over 2000.. I call that an improvement. give that a try, the os was so much slower, had way less features, and had horrible security. Things are also going to move much faster when hp acquires palm.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    I've been a pre owner since august, but have been waiting longer than most. I went about 6 months without a phone in order to get the pre. Flash got pushed back, because of the apple/ adobe fight. That made adobe want to make sure their product releases at amazing quality.So it got pushed back, and adobe improved it alot. It's already in beta for android, and will be coming of beta next month. Palm will follow. the only problem is that the pre at 500 mhz isn't that fast. Those of us who have overclocked pres will do much better.


    and what do you mean, should pre owners wait? They kind of have to. Unless they want to go to another platform. Some of us actually like the platform, and are happy with the way things are progressing. Look at the iphone, or android in it's first year, It didn't grow nearly as quickly as web-os did, and the companies are much bigger, with much more recourses.

    Run web-os doctor 1.0/1.1 and only use apps from that where available back then.. Until august it only had 50 apps. Now they are up over 2000.. I call that an improvement. give that a try, the os was so much slower, had way less features, and had horrible security. Things are also going to move much faster when hp acquires palm.
    I was being sarcastic. I meant that pre owners should be tired of waiting for flash after the many delays. And with the other platforms, they started off more complete than webos, but that's another thread in its entirety.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    This is a silly argument because it's a non-sequitur. Open system, closed system - none of this has anything to do with sales. Apple attracts developers because there is a larger market to profit from, period. As long as there is a large pool to sell to, the will continue to have developers focus on them. Wait until the smartphone spreads to China, doesn't matter what type of system they have or what type OS those phones run - 1 BILLION users will attract developers.

    Apple - and I 'm not a hater of any of the phone makers - didn't invent the smartphone, they were just another step in the popularization of phone. Before them it was the Treo's and Centros. Along with them it will be the Androids and possibly the Palm products.

    The closed system won't kill Apple, but may eventually hurt them. It is what hurt them in PC sales, which as great as their products are touted to be, they have NEVER recovered from that misstep. Once competitive alternatives become more established in the market - I can guarantee you that you'll see the restrictions loosen. If I can get products on other platforms that I can't get on iPhones, people will start to seek alternative. You don't think Apple is noticing Android right now.
    Thanks for that, you did my work for me. I agree, except for one thing: what Apple is doing with the iPhone OS-based devices is even worse than what they did with the Macintosh. There, Apple simply locked down the operating system to their hardware, but they left developers and users free to install whatever apps they wanted. And Apple did this on purpose--they were happy to remain a boutique shop making very nice margins but never achieving greater than an 8% market share.

    With the iPhone OS, however, not only is Apple controlling the App Store, but they've also made it impossible to install an app from anywhere else. That means that Apple is controlling how people can use their devices, which is pretty much unprecedented in the history of computing.

    Want to wirelessly sync your iPhone or iPad with iTunes? Sorry, no can do--Apple has denied that application from the App Store, even though it meets all of the official requirements. Want to read a certain style of political satire? Sorry, you'll have to go to the Web for that--Apple doesn't want certain sensibilities to be offended. Apple even defines what's "valuable" to a user, by deciding that some apps provide enough value while others don't. And on and on. If you want the freedom to use your device as you wish, then you have to jailbreak it and void your warranty.

    I think that people accept this now because they really don't know any different. Most of the millions of iPhone users are unaware, I'll bet, of the control that Apple has over their use of their own device. And Apple's had it pretty easy--they built their lead while the rest of the market tripped all over itself.

    As I said earlier, Android has so far proven that Apple isn't actually a magical company--Android devices are outselling the iPhone and will continue to do so. And as people become aware of the alternatives, they'll learn how Apple is treating them. Many developers already can't stand Apple's policies and are just chomping at the bit for other platforms to develop for, which explains how Android has gone from zero to 50,000 apps in so short a time.

    As far as Palm and webOS go, there's nothing wrong that a little money can't fix. Within a year, we can safely predict that webOS will be running on smartphones, tablets, multifunction devices, and probably other devices as well. They will be manufactured and distributed by the largest technology company in the world--the largest PC maker, the largest server maker, one of the largest network infrastructure companies (that supplies architecture to 8 out of the largest 10 carriers in the world), one of the largest cloud services company, etc. HP is a company that distributes products through a vast retail channel that spans 170 countries around the world. And, HP understands that the mobile space is strategically important to its continued success.

    It's simply ludicrous to suggest that HP's backing won't make a difference in the success of the platform. webOS smartphones may never outsell iPhones and Android, but it'll certainly compete nicely against them. Developers will recognize this if they haven't already, and that success coupled with the open nature of Palm's development environment will be far more attractive than Apple's.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  17. #37  
    exactly. i doubt i would ever switch to an android based phone but i love them for selling so much and putting a dent in apples sales, i'm glad people found an alternative to the iphone (even if it wasn't the pre) and are now starting to see that there are better phones (yeah i know...that's a matter of opinion) out there and they don't need to be held prisoner by their phones and their network
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    I was being sarcastic. I meant that pre owners should be tired of waiting for flash after the many delays. And with the other platforms, they started off more complete than webos, but that's another thread in its entirety.
    i know.. I was saying that in response to you being sarcastic.. Read it over knowing i knew you where being sarcastic...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    i know.. I was saying that in response to you being sarcastic.. Read it over knowing i knew you where being sarcastic...
    Ah ok... Read it to fast.
  20. #40  
    <<deleted quote>>

    Your tense.. I can tell you haven't had one in a min. Calm down. Relax.
    Last edited by Blaize; 05/29/2010 at 09:46 PM. Reason: Post deleted
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