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  1. Quintus's Avatar
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       #1  
    Now that webOS internalz has found a way to port 3D games to the Pre and Palm has released a new PDK, any chance that someone (webOS internalz maybe?) could homebrew a solution that would enable us to purchase iPhone apps and then install them on the Pre without having to wait for the developers themselves to do so?

    I was thinking of TomTom's Navigator 7 standalone GPS mapping solution. One thing I sure miss on my Pre is the ability to convert it into a standalone GPS. I used to use Navigator 5 and then Navigator 6 on my Palm T|X. It worked great. These telenav solutions are good but they certainly become much less reliable when you travel outside city limits or in areas where signal strength is a problem.

    I sent an email to TomTom to see if it intends on releasing a webOS version of Navigator 7 but I expect a cookie cutter response "not at this time but keep checking back with us for more news and updates" or something along those lines.

    Any chance that a homebrew solution is possible?
  2. derrythe's Avatar
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    #2  
    The problem with stand alone GPS on the Pre is that the GPS chip isn't programmed to be used without a data connection, if you look it up you can get all hacky with your phone and get it to, though it's still not a simple process. So any program you use will still use the data connection to get GPS data (for now).
  3. Quintus's Avatar
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       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Derrythe View Post
    The problem with stand alone GPS on the Pre is that the GPS chip isn't programmed to be used without a data connection, if you look it up you can get all hacky with your phone and get it to, though it's still not a simple process. So any program you use will still use the data connection to get GPS data (for now).
    True, except we now know that the GPS chip in the CDMA Pre does have the ability to do standalone GPS. Enabling it is not nearly as complicated as it initially seemed. This thread provides an excellent "how to" for those who can carefully and patiently follow step-by-step instructions:

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ed-cached.html

    And if a developer such as TomTom was prepared to do an official webOS version of its GPS software, I'm sure that a developer of this class could work with Palm to get the correct settings enabled via PDK or make some exception like they have done for MotionApps' "Classic" which has been given very low level access to the Pre.

    It is possible and I sure hope closer to reality some day soon.
  4. hape's Avatar
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    #4  
    Hi,

    only as a side information. Someone tried to start testing if Navit on the Pre is possible. But it looks like he gave up :-(

    http://forums.precentral.net/webos-i...navit-pre.html

    HaPe
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Quintus View Post
    Now that webOS internalz has found a way to port 3D games to the Pre and Palm has released a new PDK, any chance that someone (webOS internalz maybe?) could homebrew a solution that would enable us to purchase iPhone apps and then install them on the Pre without having to wait for the developers themselves to do so?
    That will never happen. iPhone apps are (for the most part) binary applications. You'd need something like WINE on WebOS that would emulate the iPhone OS's APIs and convert them to native API calls. That's just not going to happen. On top of that, iPhones run OS X while WebOS is Linux based.

    There's a difference between porting an application you have the source code to and porting a retail, binary application.
  6. #6  
    what's wrong with you guys.. Sprint's own Navigation Software is awesome. Why do you need Tom Tom's app for this? Good thing about Sprint's Nav is that while you are driving with Nav directions, you can have the music running.. when there is a voice prompt, your music goes in the background and once the voice prompt for the direction is over, your music resumes.. its pretty awesome.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by hirenpathak View Post
    what's wrong with you guys.. Sprint's own Navigation Software is awesome. Why do you need Tom Tom's app for this? Good thing about Sprint's Nav is that while you are driving with Nav directions, you can have the music running.. when there is a voice prompt, your music goes in the background and once the voice prompt for the direction is over, your music resumes.. its pretty awesome.
    I think the most common complaint is it requires an active Data connection. TomTom has the maps included, so you don't have to be in range of the EvDO network to figure out where you're going.
  8. lasercomp's Avatar
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    #8  
    I completely agree that Sprints nav software is very good but I've had many instances where Im using my Pre as a nav and drive into an area with lousy or no data connection and my navigation software becomes useless. If Sprint Telenav can allow us to download individual states to our devices, we wont need to use the data connection to constantly be online to keep downloading the maps. Wouldnt this also help Sprint by reducing network bandwidth?

    I would easily pay a few bucks to have the ability to download individual state maps. How about being able to download Google street view maps of certain cities? Would be a dream come true..
  9. #9  
    Different programing languages, different file structure, different OS and many more where those came from.

    Porting an application from 1 app to another as a developer isn't that hard. For example I program for Blackberry, Palm and Windows Mobile. Taking the code I created and making it run on each device isn't too hard, but trying to get an application to run on a completely different device is almost impossible. With that being said tdps2 has the right idea with needing an emulator. I don't think the pre is up to the task though of emulating another OS and then running an application. A lot of users get errors when playing the Sims can you image running an emulator.
  10. Quintus's Avatar
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       #10  
    So how is it that we are seeking a sudden inflx of 3D games being ported over from the iPhone such as Need for Speed? I was under the impression that the new PDK made this quite easy to accomplish. If you could do this with 3D games, why not with the Navigator software?
  11. Quintus's Avatar
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by hirenpathak View Post
    what's wrong with you guys.. Sprint's own Navigation Software is awesome. Why do you need Tom Tom's app for this? Good thing about Sprint's Nav is that while you are driving with Nav directions, you can have the music running.. when there is a voice prompt, your music goes in the background and once the voice prompt for the direction is over, your music resumes.. its pretty awesome.
    I agree that Sprint Nav is great when you have a data connection but would you rely on it on a long road trip? Probably not hence the reason I still need to carry around my TomTom GPS with me because you know you are going to lose the data connection sooner or later. That is why I want a standalone GPS solution on the Pre.
  12. #12  
    And most of all, not everywhere there is a Sprint Nav
    Here in Germany there is no such thing and I am very disapointed bout not beeing able to use the GPS for Navigation.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Holliefant View Post
    And most of all, not everywhere there is a Sprint Nav
    Here in Germany there is no such thing and I am very disapointed bout not beeing able to use the GPS for Navigation.
    I was able to install sprint nav from sprints webos doctor image on my german pre. But I do not have german maps for it. So, now I've got a Navi but I could just drive to Springfield with it
  14. #14  
    yes, i would love standalone GPS! Please someone pick that up! I would pay for that. I travel to Europe very often and it would be nice to use the Pre as my navigation.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Quintus View Post
    So how is it that we are seeking a sudden inflx of 3D games being ported over from the iPhone such as Need for Speed? I was under the impression that the new PDK made this quite easy to accomplish. If you could do this with 3D games, why not with the Navigator software?
    There's a difference between porting an app you have the source code to and getting an already compiled, binary application working on a completely different system.

    Your argument is the same thing as asking, why can't I run Photoshop for Mac on my Windows PC? It doesn't work. You have to get the version that was compiled for Windows. Only Adobe can make versions for different platforms because they own the source code.

    The 3D games you see coming from the webos-internals guys are completely open source (Doom and Quake). Anybody can get the source code from ID and compile it for any system they want.

    When a developer like EA wants to make their game work on the Pre, it's not a simple task. They don't just take the version they have that works on the iPhone, throw it into a magical program and out pops the Pre version. They have to rework some of it, rewrite some parts of the game completely, and then compile it using Palm's "PDK". When you play Need for Speed on your Pre, you're not playing an iPhone game on WebOS, you're playing WebOS game. Just because it's available on both systems doesn't mean much.

    Hope that clarifies it a bit.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by tdps2 View Post
    There's a difference between porting an app you have the source code to and getting an already compiled, binary application working on a completely different system.

    Your argument is the same thing as asking, why can't I run Photoshop for Mac on my Windows PC? It doesn't work. You have to get the version that was compiled for Windows. Only Adobe can make versions for different platforms because they own the source code.

    The 3D games you see coming from the webos-internals guys are completely open source (Doom and Quake). Anybody can get the source code from ID and compile it for any system they want.

    When a developer like EA wants to make their game work on the Pre, it's not a simple task. They don't just take the version they have that works on the iPhone, throw it into a magical program and out pops the Pre version. They have to rework some of it, rewrite some parts of the game completely, and then compile it using Palm's "PDK". When you play Need for Speed on your Pre, you're not playing an iPhone game on WebOS, you're playing WebOS game. Just because it's available on both systems doesn't mean much.

    Hope that clarifies it a bit.
    just listening to this conversation to gain some knowledge. i had some questions:


    -so is gameloft taking their iphone game and rewriting parts of the game completely to make it work for in WebOS?

    If so, seems that this is easy for them. I think us non programmers get the impression that this seems to be less complicated then originally thought as evidenced by the speed gamelofts games are being released and the quality of the final product.

    -Is doing this porting somehow easier for Gameloft then the average iphone game or app developer?
    -Are they just applying themselves more? For example. Seems CNN could just port their app to the pre if they tried.
    -Does the difficulty vary according to the app (as i assume it would since i've heard there's not apis for things like microphones)?
  17. #17  
    I love the Nav on Pre.
    I loved Tom Tom on Treo.
    That being said, I flew from Cali to Dallas. Driving from Dallas to Burneyville, OK.
    Honestly the Sprint Nav failed because of the maps and coverage.
    the only time the Tom Tom ever almost failedwas to drive me through the middle of someones farm in France, in my new 330ci that I picked up in Munich, cows totally surrounded the car. It was funny.

    I would like a Tom Tom solution no matter how it comes about, as back up.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    just listening to this conversation to gain some knowledge. i had some questions:


    -so is gameloft taking their iphone game and rewriting parts of the game completely to make it work for in WebOS?

    If so, seems that this is easy for them. I think us non programmers get the impression that this seems to be less complicated then originally thought as evidenced by the speed gamelofts games are being released and the quality of the final product.

    -Is doing this porting somehow easier for Gameloft then the average iphone game or app developer?
    -Are they just applying themselves more? For example. Seems CNN could just port their app to the pre if they tried.
    -Does the difficulty vary according to the app (as i assume it would since i've heard there's not apis for things like microphones)?
    I can't speak for gameloft as I have no idea what their code looks like, but here's my best guest. Palm gave a couple companies early access to the PDK. That's why there were games released Day 1. Even though it seems like a new gameloft game is coming out every week, they might've been working/testing these apps for over 2 months now.

    Now for porting. Generally, the more your app relies on the OS you're using, the harder it will be to port it. For example, an app that uses lots of aspects of the UI built into the iPhone (the sliders, text boxes, integration with the Photo picker framework, etc) will take a substantially longer time to port to a new OS. The more integrated the App is with the system, the more you need to rewrite for it to work the same way on a completely different OS.

    Take a game like Monopoly. There's nothing in the Monopoly interface that looks like anything else on the iPhone or Pre. They're using their own UI, their own buttons, etc. The only thing Monopoly needs to talk to the OS for is knowing when the card is open/closed, when to pause the game, when a call comes in, etc. The Pre and iPhone have their own frameworks and APIs to let the apps do that, so those would be the parts that get rewritten. Other than that, they may have to adjust some of the graphics to fit onto the smaller screen, but largely the game is the same on both platforms.

    For something like the CNN app, I've never used it on the iPhone, but I imagine it has a lot of hooks into the iPhone's OS. It might rely on the iPhone framework to pick a photo, use an iPhone textbox to add a caption, and then use the iPhone's email or MMS service to send it to iReport. Another part of the app might rely on the iPhone's Quicktime engine to play videos. All of that is going to be different on the Pre, so the app would likely require a major reworking. It's a lot different than a game that has it's own interface like Monopoly.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by tdps2 View Post
    I can't speak for gameloft as I have no idea what their code looks like, but here's my best guest. Palm gave a couple companies early access to the PDK.

    Now for porting. Generally, the more your app relies on the OS you're using, the harder it will be to port it. For example, an app that uses lots of aspects of the UI built into the iPhone (the sliders, text boxes, integration with the Photo picker framework, etc) will take a substantially longer time to port to a new OS. The more integrated the App is with the system, the more you need to rewrite for it to work the same way on a completely different OS.

    Take a game like Monopoly. There's nothing in the Monopoly interface that looks like anything else on the iPhone or Pre. They're using their own UI, their own buttons, etc. The only thing Monopoly needs to talk to the OS for is knowing when the card is open/closed, when to pause the game, when a call comes in, etc. The Pre and iPhone have their own frameworks and APIs to let the apps do that, so those would be the parts that get rewritten. Other than that, they may have to adjust some of the graphics to fit onto the smaller screen, but largely the game is the same on both platforms.

    For something like the CNN app, I've never used it on the iPhone, but I imagine it has a lot of hooks into the iPhone's OS. It might rely on the iPhone framework to pick a photo, use an iPhone textbox to add a caption, and then use the iPhone's email or MMS service to send it to iReport. Another part of the app might rely on the iPhone's Quicktime engine to play videos. All of that is going to be different on the Pre, so the app would likely require a major reworking. It's a lot different than a game that has it's own interface like Monopoly.
    thanks for the insight. would the fact that the games like the racing games use largely the accelerometer and touching a random spot on the screen be help too? i mean then you'd only need to hook into the touch screen and the accelerometer? as for cnn i just pulled that out of my ***. it's just an example. probably a bad one.

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