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  1. #141  
    This will probably be the third time I try to post this on this thread...mm, I'm not sure if this will go through, or what the issue is..but anyway, this is from a wiki on ROM Images under the legal section:

    "..However, in the U.S. it has been illegal since 1983 for a user to create their own backups of video game ROMs onto other cartridges. This was decided in the court case of Atari v. JSJSJS&$amp$;$A$. $JS$&$amp$;$A$ $manufactured$ $a$ &$quot$;$game$ $backup$&$quot$; $device$ $that$ $allowed$ $users$ $to$ $dump$ $their$ $Atari$ $ROMs$ $onto$ $a$ $blank$ $cartridge$. $JS$&$amp$;$A$ $argued$ $that$ $the$ $archival$ $rule$ $allowed$ $for$ $this$. $The$ $court$ $disagreed$, $noting$ $that$ $ROM$ $media$ $was$ $not$ $subject$ $to$ $the$ $same$ $volatility$ $as$ $magnetic$ $media$ ($for$ $which$ $the$ $law$ $was$ $created$). $Thus$, $not$ $being$ $so$ $relatively$ $vulnerable$, $ROMs$ $were$ $not$ $applicable$ $under$ $section$ $17$ $USC$ $117$($a$)($2$).

    Some games companies, such as Nintendo, print warnings inside their game manuals that they do not allow users to make backup or archival copies. Whether or not these warnings in this specific form can be considered valid contracts is legally questionable. For an overview of relevant issues, see user agreement (EULA), shrink wrap contract, clickwrap, Fair Use, Fair Dealing and DMCA."

    So in the US at least, it is not legal to own a back up image of a ROM cartridge you own. Also, if you look in the user manuals of Nintendo games, they clearly do not want people making unauthorized copies, whether they have purchased the product or not. The article goes on to mention the fact that Nintendo has an emulator on it's Wii console, but they still want you to purchase ROMs from them, they still want the rights to sell the intellectual property, or media.

    This would mean that until Nintendo starts selling ROMs for independent emulators, the only uses for this emulator would be illegal..unless you use it to play homebrewn NES ROMs...which I'm not discounting as a possible usage..though I have not heard anyone mention this eventuality in their response.

    I don't really have an opinion on the morality or hypocrisy of it one way or the other, but I thought this was something relevant to what some people are discussing in this forum.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugantic View Post
    This will probably be the third time I try to post this on this thread...mm, I'm not sure if this will go through, or what the issue is..but anyway, this is from a wiki on ROM Images under the legal section:

    "..However, in the U.S. it has been illegal since 1983 for a user to create their own backups of video game ROMs onto other cartridges. This was decided in the court case of Atari v. JSJSJS&$amp$;$A$. $JS$&$amp$;$A$ $manufactured$ $a$ &$quot$;$game$ $backup$&$quot$; $device$ $that$ $allowed$ $users$ $to$ $dump$ $their$ $Atari$ $ROMs$ $onto$ $a$ $blank$ $cartridge$. $JS$&$amp$;$A$ $argued$ $that$ $the$ $archival$ $rule$ $allowed$ $for$ $this$. $The$ $court$ $disagreed$, $noting$ $that$ $ROM$ $media$ $was$ $not$ $subject$ $to$ $the$ $same$ $volatility$ $as$ $magnetic$ $media$ ($for$ $which$ $the$ $law$ $was$ $created$). $Thus$, $not$ $being$ $so$ $relatively$ $vulnerable$, $ROMs$ $were$ $not$ $applicable$ $under$ $section$ $17$ $USC$ $117$($a$)($2$).

    Some games companies, such as Nintendo, print warnings inside their game manuals that they do not allow users to make backup or archival copies. Whether or not these warnings in this specific form can be considered valid contracts is legally questionable. For an overview of relevant issues, see user agreement (EULA), shrink wrap contract, clickwrap, Fair Use, Fair Dealing and DMCA."

    So in the US at least, it is not legal to own a back up image of a ROM cartridge you own. Also, if you look in the user manuals of Nintendo games, they clearly do not want people making unauthorized copies, whether they have purchased the product or not. The article goes on to mention the fact that Nintendo has an emulator on it's Wii console, but they still want you to purchase ROMs from them, they still want the rights to sell the intellectual property, or media.

    This would mean that until Nintendo starts selling ROMs for independent emulators, the only uses for this emulator would be illegal..unless you use it to play homebrewn NES ROMs...which I'm not discounting as a possible usage..though I have not heard anyone mention this eventuality in their response.

    I don't really have an opinion on the morality or hypocrisy of it one way or the other, but I thought this was something relevant to what some people are discussing in this forum.
    It's our Spambot.
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  3. Spyral's Avatar
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    #143  
    1. Your icon is blurry, and has jagged edges from someone's poor understanding of Photoshop.

    2. The ROM loading interface, while simple and mostly functional, lacks anything to push your $10 price point. You want money, I want eye candy.

    3. It took me a dozen tries before I could get my keys remapped. It kept doubling values so one button did 2 things.

    4. I realize you want to limit your demo software to entice the end-user to purchase the full version. A time limit is a great way to do this. Imposing a 40k limit on ROMs is not. The vast majority of the games I enjoy playing are over this limit. If I cannot test my favorite games with your software I will have a hard time deciding if a purchase is warranted.

    5. I seem to be unable to press more than 3 buttons at once. This might seem unnecessary to some yet, in Super Mario Bros, I tend to run and jump at the same time. This is not possible with your emulator.
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    It's our Spambot.
    Sorry its been giving you trouble.
    Try and make your posts smaller until you get your post count up.
    Ah, no worries, thanks for alerting me of the issue. I'll try to make sure to edit a little better next time, and keep up with the forums when possible. Sorry for the double/triple posting =X
  5. Peh
    Peh is offline
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    #145  
    @Spyral

    For number 5:
    It is possible to press 3 button at once. It depends on which keys you define.
    Try A S W D for moving, J for button A und H for button B. This should work.

    For some odd reason i cant run the roms anymore. The screen is black and only the back button is available :/ even after restarting the palm.. its not working.

    Also.. plz put a save and load function on the gaming screen under the back button.
    Last edited by Peh; 01/17/2010 at 05:48 AM.
  6. #146  
    I downloaded the locked demo.

    It ran great.

    I bought it.

    It runs great.

    Anyone tried it with SNES roms yet?
  7. #147  
    Just purchased NesEm. It works great!! I had been running the emulator on a deb root, which has no sound and runs slow. This emulator has full sound, runs at full screen, (as large it can without stretching), and runs at full speed. Worth the price just to run Tyson punch out, Zelda, and Super Mario!! Definitely worth it if you loved playing your old Nintendo.
  8. #148  
    All the specious logic and justifications as to why this emulator should be free makes my head hurt.

    All the time spent by commenters detailing their "logic" have easily amounted to $10 purchase price in opportunity cost.

    Just sayin, is all...
  9. Eazy123's Avatar
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    #149  
    I can see how if someone put work into something, they have the right to ask for compensation for that work. However, seeing as how there is already a free NES emulator, not to mention a free, well-working GB emulator, not to mention every NES emulator I've owned has been free, it's a very risky business model to set a price (and $9.99 is way too high) on something others are offering for free.

    If you saw a cake at the store that was $9.99, and next to it was another cake that was even more decorated and tasty, yet free, which would you choose?
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy123 View Post
    I can see how if someone put work into something, they have the right to ask for compensation for that work. However, seeing as how there is already a free NES emulator, not to mention a free, well-working GB emulator, not to mention every NES emulator I've owned has been free, it's a very risky business model to set a price (and $9.99 is way too high) on something others are offering for free.

    If you saw a cake at the store that was $9.99, and next to it was another cake that was even more decorated and tasty, yet free, which would you choose?
    Except that the free cake wasn't fully baked. You'd have to have your own special oven and skill set to complete it.

    I chose the ten dollar cake.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  11. #151  
    I'm having freezing problems with the paid version and the developers are being very quick to help me test the program and run diagnostics to figure out why (with the added promise of a refund if it won't work).

    As for the emulator itself, it runs flawlessly (minus my freezing problems) with sound and has good game compatibility in terms of quantity. Is it worth $9.99? No, but is my touchstone worth 50? No. We pay for it because someone spent time and effort developing it and it enhances our phones.

    To the developers: Thanks for taking the time to develop this app, I hope this thread hasn't put you off developing more apps for the WebOS community.
  12. #152  
    How do you get updates after paying?
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugantic View Post
    This will probably be the third time I try to post this on this thread...mm, I'm not sure if this will go through, or what the issue is..but anyway, this is from a wiki on ROM Images under the legal section:

    "..However, in the U.S. it has been illegal since 1983 for a user to create their own backups of video game ROMs onto other cartridges. This was decided in the court case of Atari v. JSJSJS&$amp$;$A$. $JS$&$amp$;$A$ $manufactured$ $a$ &$quot$;$game$ $backup$&$quot$; $device$ $that$ $allowed$ $users$ $to$ $dump$ $their$ $Atari$ $ROMs$ $onto$ $a$ $blank$ $cartridge$. $JS$&$amp$;$A$ $argued$ $that$ $the$ $archival$ $rule$ $allowed$ $for$ $this$. $The$ $court$ $disagreed$, $noting$ $that$ $ROM$ $media$ $was$ $not$ $subject$ $to$ $the$ $same$ $volatility$ $as$ $magnetic$ $media$ ($for$ $which$ $the$ $law$ $was$ $created$). $Thus$, $not$ $being$ $so$ $relatively$ $vulnerable$, $ROMs$ $were$ $not$ $applicable$ $under$ $section$ $17$ $USC$ $117$($a$)($2$).

    Some games companies, such as Nintendo, print warnings inside their game manuals that they do not allow users to make backup or archival copies. Whether or not these warnings in this specific form can be considered valid contracts is legally questionable. For an overview of relevant issues, see user agreement (EULA), shrink wrap contract, clickwrap, Fair Use, Fair Dealing and DMCA."

    So in the US at least, it is not legal to own a back up image of a ROM cartridge you own. Also, if you look in the user manuals of Nintendo games, they clearly do not want people making unauthorized copies, whether they have purchased the product or not. The article goes on to mention the fact that Nintendo has an emulator on it's Wii console, but they still want you to purchase ROMs from them, they still want the rights to sell the intellectual property, or media.

    This would mean that until Nintendo starts selling ROMs for independent emulators, the only uses for this emulator would be illegal..unless you use it to play homebrewn NES ROMs...which I'm not discounting as a possible usage..though I have not heard anyone mention this eventuality in their response.

    I don't really have an opinion on the morality or hypocrisy of it one way or the other, but I thought this was something relevant to what some people are discussing in this forum.
    It might not be "legal" to own ROMs of the same exact games that you already have cartridges too... but I can assure you it's not unlawful. There's a difference between the two. Basically, if you are not injuring someone, harming someone's property, or committing fraud in your contracts... then you have broken no law. Possessing weed is actually illegal, but not unlawful. I'll leave this last bit at that for now, unless someone wants to link me to a thread they've created in the off-topic section...

    And you even hinted to the most important part above... about such an EULA being a unilateral agreement, which is NOT a valid contract. The 2-yr agreement you make with your carrier is actually a unilateral agreement and, therefore, not a valid contract. Corporations cannot sign contracts with men. A corporation has no MIND, so there cannot be a meeting of the minds, which is necessary for a contract to be valid.

    Anyway... basically, I bought these games (not even necessarily from a store, so the shrink wrap EULA would most definitely not apply to me after such a scenario) and have come to no agreement with any man about not playing that same game on multiple platforms of my choice, which I have also purchased... therefore, common law is still in effect, and I can keep using my property any way I see fit.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    It might not be "legal" to own ROMs of the same exact games that you already have cartridges too... but I can assure you it's not unlawful. There's a difference between the two. Basically, if you are not injuring someone, harming someone's property, or committing fraud in your contracts... then you have broken no law. Possessing weed is actually illegal, but not unlawful. I'll leave this last bit at that for now, unless someone wants to link me to a thread they've created in the off-topic section...

    And you even hinted to the most important part above... about such an EULA being a unilateral agreement, which is NOT a valid contract. The 2-yr agreement you make with your carrier is actually a unilateral agreement and, therefore, not a valid contract. Corporations cannot sign contracts with men. A corporation has no MIND, so there cannot be a meeting of the minds, which is necessary for a contract to be valid.

    Anyway... basically, I bought these games (not even necessarily from a store, so the shrink wrap EULA would most definitely not apply to me after such a scenario) and have come to no agreement with any man about not playing that same game on multiple platforms of my choice, which I have also purchased... therefore, common law is still in effect, and I can keep using my property any way I see fit.
    I like the cut of your jib.
  15. #155  
    @grndslm

    I looked a little more into it, and you are right about the contractual obligation part. Making a backup is actually covered under the backup/archival copy exception of the DMCA, so the user manual anti-backup part is nothing more than a suggestion. However, according to Nintendo, they explicitly state that this is not a "second copy" rule, which means that you can make a backup image of the physical cartridge you own, but it is not lawful to download another copy from the internet.

    And as for the illegal versus unlawful, I was merely commenting on the legality of it, not the moral/social contract aspect that "unlawful" would imply. But from a legal standpoint, it is against the law.

    Also, agreed, this is a subject best left off of this thread...I just thought it was an interesting topic, and there was nowhere else to comment/respond on it.
  16. FiXXXerX's Avatar
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    #156  
    The only reason that this conversation even comes up is because of one thing and one thing alone: Emulation is seen by and large as a *FREE/Open Source* way to run old games, weather they've been obtained illegally or not. If the first Emulator that came out was something you had to buy, the precedent would have been set that paying for an Emulator was acceptable, however, over the years Emulation and in turn Emulators revolve around the same principles as the Open Source community.

    Bravo to someone for attempting to get paid for the work that they've done, to everyone that has a problem paying $10, don't pay it. If you wait long enough your needs may be met with a free alternative. Until then, either suck it up and pay for being an early adopter, or **** off and wait until your free app comes out.

    Either way, stop hating on Kalem for trying to get paid.
  17. Spyral's Avatar
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    #157  
    I'm not hating on Kalem for trying to get paid. I'm hating on them for making a lackluster product and thinking they deserve money for it.
  18. #158  
    Well this thread has been officially hijacked
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugantic View Post
    And as for the illegal versus unlawful, I was merely commenting on the legality of it, not the moral/social contract aspect that "unlawful" would imply. But from a legal standpoint, it is against the law.
    Technically, as I was hinting to earlier... it is NOT unlawful for a man to exercise his property rights. EVERY last right we have stems from property rights. It is also NOT illegal for a man to exercise his property rights in such a manner as to backup some of his video games. Things that involve "legalities" do not bind the average man... only government agents, corporations, attorneys of the BAR, and those who SUBMIT to the government. The government makes it extremely difficult to claim your rights... but you DO have them. You have to know them and then claim them. You are only bound by common law... not statutes, which most people think are laws. Statutes are NOT laws. There is no LAW... probably a CODE, which is a collection of statutes... which would bind the people I mentioned earlier. Difficult concept to wrap your head around... but it's all legit. Don't break the three rules I mentioned above and then be FREE. You can do whatever you'd like so long as you don't break those rules... pretty simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugantic View Post
    Also, agreed, this is a subject best left off of this thread...I just thought it was an interesting topic, and there was nowhere else to comment/respond on it.
    Yea... this is really my last post, 'cause I couldn't let that comment go unchecked. But yea, if anybody wants to talk about it... we do have an off-topic section.
  20. #160  
    Back on topic.

    I bought the NES emulator and it works brilliantly except for the fact that I had frequent freezes - I would like you guys to know that I contacted the developers and they worked with me for 4 days on a solution with very quick response times. In the end, they gave me a refund with absolutely no argument whatsoever.

    Thanks Kalem for being honest and for your good customer support.
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