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  1. DocLee's Avatar
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       #1  
    RadioTime now works over 3G on Bell Canada.

    Thank you Palm for intervening on this matter.

    Doc
    Last edited by DocLee; 01/16/2010 at 08:03 PM.
  2. angiest's Avatar
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    #2  
    Wow, why do they sell Smartphones? Seems like they are cutting off a lot of the utility with those rather Draconian TOS.

    I absolutely love RadioTime. In the absence of Flash support it has enabled me to listem to my favourite morning radio show on my Pre, albeit through an affiliate, rather than the local (flagship) station.
  3. #3  
    I'm in Canada and have it installed on my pre. So does my wife. I can't wait to go visit Bell again. Are they ever gonna get a piece of my mind.
  4. #4  
    Sounds like you're being very logical about this and genuinely looking to be helpful in order to avoid the worst-case scenario solution.

    Is there a way to mod a "Canadian" version of the app to work just on WIFI.? ...Even as I write this, I realize as a limited-resources shop, you're not likely to be able to do this without taking away from supporting the core version and continuing to develop.

    I'm in the U.S., so I'm not affected, but WIFI-only was the only alternative solutions (beyond the grass-roots effort you suggested to convince Bell Canada to allow users to stream media on their Smart Phones)
  5. #5  
    Wow....one of the most amazing apps that we here in canada get to enjoy and show off with. Stupid ..BELL....I left fido to jump on the smart phone parade and went against my Iphone..and blackberry users at my company. I feel ripped off right now...no 1.3.5....no paid apps.....and now no more Radio Time. Only 33 months to go in my contract....PS. as hard as it is right now.....I LOVE MY UNDER DOG PALM PRE.....disgruntled with BELL.
  6. DocLee's Avatar
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       #6  
    This is nothing definitive as of yet. I'm just asking for suggestions as to what to do about the situation. In fact, I'm pushing out an update within the next few minutes to everybody (except France and Spain...anybody want to help with translation?) including Canada.

    We'll see how Bell Canada responds over the next few days to complaints.

    Doc
  7. Vij
    Vij is offline
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by DocLee View Post
    This is nothing definitive as of yet. I'm just asking for suggestions as to what to do about the situation. In fact, I'm pushing out an update within the next few minutes to everybody (except France and Spain...anybody want to help with translation?) including Canada.

    We'll see how Bell Canada responds over the next few days to complaints.

    Doc
    Thanks for asking us here DocLee. Greatly appreciated.

    I just fired up RadioTime and confirmed that is doesn't connect unless I'm on Wifi. I hadn't noticed the issue before because I'm on Wifi >95% of the time.
    I'd REALLY miss your app if it was no longer available in Canada. I'm really hating Bell right now...

    Thoughts:

    1) Add a Note/Warning to he App download page stating in Canada it will only work via Wifi. Hopefully that would help with Canadians giving a poor rating. Hopefully people read the warning before downloading and commenting.

    2) Add a check to your App at startup - if running in Canada then warn that it will only work via Wifi because of an issue with Bell. Maybe more people will complain to Bell too ;-)

    3) Have a Canadian Wifi-only version. Likely a pain for you though and not worth the trouble.
  8. #8  
    I'm afraid that I don't have much to offer other than to agree that particular term seems unnecessarily restrictive and to thank you for your continually clear and straightforward communication with Pre users.

    Between this issue and the ongoing 1.3.5 delay, I'm not too impressed with Bell right now!
  9. #9  
    I love the app! It's probably the best around for this type of thing.

    But after reading one user's post, I might have an idea or solution. Not a great solution but something.

    Since it does seem to work with WiFi, why don't you offer Bell and any other Canadian carrier, that you will consider making the app only work with the WiFi connection.

    That way, the carrier can't complain about the data usage on their networks, the user gets a better experience because they won't have to wonder if its your program or the carrier's connection.

    You get freed up trying to solve problems that are not of your doing.

    And generally everyone wins, and you can still earn some money selling the app, as long as the user is informed of the restrictions.

    The carrier's get to see how much people love your product and maybe they would reconsider.

    Does this sound like at least a temporary solution?

    Rob

    PS I live in New York City, and I'm on Sprint, so I am not affected by this.

    Also, just realized, I was not the first to suggest this. So it seems that we think alike around here!
    Robert L
    Astoria Queens, N.Y.C
    - Palm Pre (Sprint) - formally Palm Treo 650
    Version 1.4.1.1
    Sprint Configuration 2.3
    Model: P100EWW
    Hardware Version: A
    Firmware: CC1.4(510)

  10. #10  
    I live in Canada and found a perfect works around. Basically I connect at home over wi-fi and simply leave the house and drive away :P . The wi-fi connection cuts out and EVDO takes over with only a short drop in the stream (maybe 10 seconds).

    Not the perfect solution but better then nothing since i haven't receive a responce to my email to bell.

    Dark D
  11. #11  
    Hi Doc Lee,

    What is confusing to me is that AccuRadio (an exteremly similar provider of streaming media) works flawlessly on my Palm Pre (Bell Mobility), yet Radio Time does not. When I say "works", I am meaning via Bell's network alone, and not Wi-Fi.
    So, how is it AccuRadio works, but your app does not? In the answering of that question, I believe the answer you require to make your loyal fans happy, lies.

    Now, after you have figured out how to once again effectively provide your service, let's then talk about how we can convince you to remove the ugly ad banners that make your product look so cheap. It's sad because everything else is clean and professional, and then there is this "ugly" banner.

    Oh, and to the guy who said he could start RadioTime on wi-fi and then have it switch to Bell's network...I say...no way. Radio Time just doesn't work on Bell's network currently in its most recent configuraton.

    There was one time when it did work on Bell's network though, and it was in and around mid-December.

    So, please fix it Doc Lee, and thank you for the wonderful app that WILL once again be great!

    God Speed,

    LPHB
  12. DocLee's Avatar
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       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Love Palm Hate Bell View Post
    Hi Doc Lee,

    What is confusing to me is that AccuRadio (an exteremly similar provider of streaming media) works flawlessly on my Palm Pre (Bell Mobility), yet Radio Time does not. When I say "works", I am meaning via Bell's network alone, and not Wi-Fi.
    So, how is it AccuRadio works, but your app does not? In the answering of that question, I believe the answer you require to make your loyal fans happy, lies.
    AccuRadio's server isn't blocked on Bell Canada. It's not the streams that are blocked, it's access to the RadioTime server to pull information. RadioTime only organizes and directs to streams. The streams themselves are provided by individual stations. AccuRadio provides both information and mp3s. The difference between AccuRadio and RadioTime in terms of service is that AccuRadio provides an individual mp3 file, not a stream. RadioTime provides access to a stream. In this sense, AccuRadio doesn't violate Bell Canada's Terms of Service as it is not "multimedia streaming" or "continuous data transmission or broadcasts". It's a short transmission, a download essentially, of a single mp3 file at a time, with playback at the same time it is downloading. It's no different than a podcast. RadioTime, on the other hand, directs to multimedia streams that are continuous broadcasts.

    Now, after you have figured out how to once again effectively provide your service, let's then talk about how we can convince you to remove the ugly ad banners that make your product look so cheap. It's sad because everything else is clean and professional, and then there is this "ugly" banner.
    That's not going to happen. The program has to make money some how for RadioTime to survive. The options are to charge for it and have only a few downloads (look at the other paid streaming audio apps averaging around 1500 downloads each and have been in the App Catalog far longer than we have) or to have ad revenue and release it to everybody as a free/ad supported program. We have over 61,000 downloads as of today and are growing at a rate of around 20,000 users a week. So the choices are a lot of users or a few users. In the future, there is the possibility of a "Pro" no ad version, but right now, it's much more important to build the user base.

    Oh, and to the guy who said he could start RadioTime on wi-fi and then have it switch to Bell's network...I say...no way. Radio Time just doesn't work on Bell's network currently in its most recent configuraton.
    Sure it does. It's only access to RadioTime's server that is blocked. Once you're on a stream, you're good to go. The individual streams come from the individual radio stations. There's no way that Bell Canada can block 100,000+ individual sites. If it took them 5 minutes to find and block each site, it would take them almost a year to block every single one of them.

    There was one time when it did work on Bell's network though, and it was in and around mid-December.
    That should tell you something. There's only been one update to the program and that was last night. Original version was 1.0.5. 1.0.6 was published to the App Catalog last night. If nothing has changed in the program, the problem isn't the program.

    So, please fix it Doc Lee, and thank you for the wonderful app that WILL once again be great!
    There's nothing to be fixed. I'm not Bell Canada (would be nice if I owned it so I could hop aboard my private jet and retire to my own private island in the Caribbean) but it's out of my control. I know that's not the answer you want, but, that's the only answer I have to give. We've gotten Palm involved in it and they are checking with Bell Canada to see what exactly the issue is, but for the time being, you're going to have to wait just like the rest of us.
  13. #13  
    Is there a way we can use a proxy-server or some type of mirror or redirect server and just shove it up the ***** of bell?

    I LOVE this app, and I thought it was a problem with the app how sometimes it just simply wouldn't work. However, if I start it at home or at work (wifi), then it keeps working when I get in the car.

    What a joke. They offer an unlimited data plan, but you can't use it to stream unlimited data? ***... that's gotta be illegal.
  14. #14  
    Well, Bell canada _could_ block all the streams, as you said Doc, it's 100K+ streams, mechanizing the process might take as long as 20 or 30 minutes.

    But as I think everyone else has said, the correct solution for now appears to be, attempt to access the server, when it fails, check if you are on Bell Canada, which is easy enough to do, and pop up a dialog which says:
    ================================
    Your phone Carrier, Bell Canada, has chosen to block access to RadioTime's servers. Until they end that block, you have to use a wifi connection to begin listening to a station. After connecting, you can leave the area and continue via 3G. There may be a short drop out during the switchover.

    To encourage them to change this policy contact Bell Canada Complaint department at XXX-yyy-zzzz
    =================================
  15. #15  
    DocLee,

    Is there any reason why RadioTime won't work in the UK??

    I'm really keen to install this on my Pre, but having no joy at all.

    It doesn't seem to appear in the App Catalog, although I can send a link to it over SMS from the AppCatalog web page on palm.com. But even then, I get a message from inside App Catalog saying "This application cannot run on your current operating system. Use the updates app to install the system update". However, I have already installed webOS v1.3.5.2, which was only released 2 days ago.

    I've also tried it from the Preware App, but get the same message as above.

    So why is App catalog saying my webOS won't support RadioTime??
  16. DocLee's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by wonka68 View Post
    DocLee,

    Is there any reason why RadioTime won't work in the UK??

    I'm really keen to install this on my Pre, but having no joy at all.

    It doesn't seem to appear in the App Catalog, although I can send a link to it over SMS from the AppCatalog web page on palm.com. But even then, I get a message from inside App Catalog saying "This application cannot run on your current operating system. Use the updates app to install the system update". However, I have already installed webOS v1.3.5.2, which was only released 2 days ago.

    I've also tried it from the Preware App, but get the same message as above.

    So why is App catalog saying my webOS won't support RadioTime??
    There's no reason why you shouldn't have access to it. Obviously if it's not even appearing in your App Catalog (even though we have UK selected under the country release in the developer section of developer.palm.com), it's kind of out of our control. Shoot me your email address in a PM and I'll shoot you a copy of it while I figure out what the hold up is with Palm.

    Doc
  17. #17  
    For some reason RadioTime is now working for me on Bell's network! Did bell recently grant access to the severs? Can anyone else confirm this?
  18. DocLee's Avatar
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       #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by darkenedreality View Post
    For some reason RadioTime is now working for me on Bell's network! Did bell recently grant access to the severs? Can anyone else confirm this?
    Yes, I can confirm this. Bell has unblocked the RadioTime servers after Palm intervened.

    Enjoy,
    Doc
  19. o14
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    #19  
    Excellent news! I noticed in the past few days that I couldn't get RadioTime to work unless it was on wi-fi. At the time, I dismissed it and said what a stupid app. It irks me that it was Bell causing the problem in reality. Thanks a lot for your great app, it's good to know that Canadians can use it fully once again!
  20. Vij
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by DocLee View Post
    Yes, I can confirm this. Bell has unblocked the RadioTime servers after Palm intervened.

    Enjoy,
    Doc
    Great!! Good for Palm too in getting Bell to change. Thanks DocLee.

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