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  1. squeff's Avatar
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       #1  
    As many of you know, Palm has a "no refunds" policy for the app catalog. I recently purchase an app that didn't do what I wanted. While it wasn't expensive (and not really worth the time it took me to do a little research), it looked like a good opportunity to do the legwork on refunds before I purchased something more substantial. Here's what I learned.

    The terms of service clearly state that all sales are final. If you speak to someone at Palm (more on this later), they'll tell you that this information is provided when you select to purchase an app. For the couple of apps I've purchased, I don't recall being presented with this information, but maybe I somehow missed it?

    I gave a call to Palm's technical support (the only phone number I could find). They reminded me that, because I purchased my Pre in June, my free support was supposed to be over. However, Palm has decided to extend free support for Pre users -- I'm sure you can guess why -- although there is no decision on how long they are extending. So, first tip: if you're avoiding calling Palm for a legit tech support issue because you don't want to pay their fee, be aware that they have suspended the fee for Pre users for now.

    As you can expect, the person at tech support was only able to state the policy. She could give no reason the policy. However, she was quick to say "because we can't give you a refund, we'll give you 10% off accessories."

    I then requested to speak to someone that could tell me the reason for the policy. She gave me a reference number and then transferred me to corporate customer service.

    Once there (was on hold for less than 5 minutes), I spoke to someone else that repeated the policy and, without me prompting, offered me that same 10% off accessories. So, if you really want 10% off from Palm, it seems pretty easy to get it. Not that you can't find things cheaper elsewhere.

    His initial reason for the policy was that no software product can be returned. He cited Windows, saying that once you install Windows, you cannot return it. I happen to have some fairly extensive experience in intellectual property and legal issues around software licensing and know that this isn't exactly true. However, given that this is a more complex issue, I simply explained that I had expertise in this area and we need to agree to disagree on this.

    We moved on.

    He then said that the reason was that there was no way for Palm to remove the software from a device. I told him that I'd read that there was the ability for Palm to remove applications from devices, similar to the Amazon.com Kindle. He said that there was absolutely no such thing and that the only thing Palm can do remotely is wipe the entire device.

    He also said that Palm has no access to which customers have which software. He said even if they were to remove it from my device, I would be able to redownload it. "If you keep a record of who can redownload, then you have a record of who has which software," I said. "No, Palm does not have access to this," he said. "Maybe an engineer can do it, but Palm cannot."

    Are these engineers Palm employees? "Yes," he said. "But Palm cannot have our engineers doing that." After a bit of back and forth, he admitted that "Palm" means him, personally.

    I also challenged the notion that Palm cannot keep track of purchased. "Just because Palm decided to code their systems such that you cannot track purchases is not an excuse for a bad customer service policy." He said that he's put that in as a suggestion for a future product enhancement.

    This "Palm" thing also extended to "Palm does not have access to credit cards, so we cannot issue a refund." He was pretty sure that no one at Palm charged my credit card. "All I know is that I put in my Mastercard number and got a receipt, from Palm, that said I was charged."

    His claim: Palm doesn't even use the credit card numbers. They simply pass them along to the developer, who is responsible for collecting the money. Further, he believed the developers (a) get paid immediately and (b) get 100%.

    I told him that neither was true, as has been explained to me by actual developers.

    Finally, he said he's look into giving me a refund -- no promises. I'm waiting for a call back.

    Now, I happen to think that part of this is true. I think they really don't want to get involved in (a) trying to remotely remove software and (b) do the accounting involved to get money back from developers that they've already paid.

    Anyway, I just wanted to share the experience. If you're unhappy with something you purchased, particularly if the description was poor, you might try calling Palm. For $2-$5 apps, the 20-30 minutes it'll take isn't going to be worth it to many, but letting Palm know that you're unhappy about the policy has bigger implications.
  2. #2  
    Excellent work.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post
    He also said that Palm has no access to which customers have which software. He said even if they were to remove it from my device, I would be able to redownload it. "If you keep a record of who can redownload, then you have a record of who has which software," I said.

    [edited for brevity]

    His claim: Palm doesn't even use the credit card numbers. They simply pass them along to the developer, who is responsible for collecting the money. Further, he believed the developers (a) get paid immediately and (b) get 100%.
    A couple of quick corrections. What apps you've bought is part of your profile, so you should be able to delete an app and download it again later. There was a bug where if you changed your phone or re-initialized your profile it might not work 100% of the time, but that should be fixed, so if you ran into it, try downloading the apps now.

    Also, Palm does the credit card processing, not the developers. The support person was incorrect here, and we've talked to them to clarify how this all works. The developers have no access to your credit card info.

    chuq
  4. squeff's Avatar
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       #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by chuq View Post
    A couple of quick corrections. What apps you've bought is part of your profile, so you should be able to delete an app and download it again later. There was a bug where if you changed your phone or re-initialized your profile it might not work 100% of the time, but that should be fixed, so if you ran into it, try downloading the apps now.
    What I said. But this shows that Palm can know what apps you have and, relevant here, they can simply remove apps from that list that you "return."

    Quote Originally Posted by chuq View Post
    Also, Palm does the credit card processing, not the developers. The support person was incorrect here, and we've talked to them to clarify how this all works. The developers have no access to your credit card info.

    chuq
    I know that. But this rep was clearly looking for excuses.

    That said, if a developer is worried about their app being "stolen," they need to take their own steps to prevent that.
  5. alfred86's Avatar
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    #5  

    You must had felt pretty good that you cornered that poor rep? Maybe I should come into your work and start blowing up on you for something you have no power over and couldn't even get me to someone that could do it.

    People like you remind me of why I no longer work in the cellphone industry. At most you lost $5 and I'm sure you have done it before and will do it again. I just can't believe you decided to take it upon yourself to let Palm know what you thought.

    I wouldn't call you back either, you'r lucky he even said he would do anything for you. Why would they let you return an app? Especially with games? What would keep me from downloading playing the whole thing (or just part) in a couple hours and returning it?

    BooWhoo, next time read the reviews first. It's freak'n 2010 people!! You haven't been able to return software and media since the 80's!! All you can do is get another one. And he was right if you crack the seal nobody is taking back your software.

    I'm sure you feel intitled to be the exception to the rule and you thought that (like a child in the grocery store) if you cried loud enough long enough someone would cave.

    It would cost more to implement the policy and then your app prices will go up. They would have to set up the server and e-mail adress to (if they did it via electronic form) along with the code to check when you downloaded it, a program to access your pre (which I'm sure nobody wants Palm doing) and removing the program.

    Then they have to pay fees to the Credit Card company (because they charge a fee both ways). The dev wouldn't like it because then Palm would have to hold their profits for a month to ensure their wheren't any returns.

    Not to mention they would then have to hope you didn't pull the battery because it felt slow and messed up the process or they would have to lock you out of your device for that time (which I'm sure your to important to be incovenanced by this).

    It's just impratical and you where being irrational to even feel the need to let Palm know that you got your poor feelings hurt.
  6. #6  
    This is all going to turn into more "check this box" "read this agreement" "hit yes if you agree" for all of us because some really really determined complainers.

    If you don't like the software, tell that to the developers for they are most directly responsible for making you believe their product was worth the money. I don't see how it was palm's fault.
  7. squeff's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by neobaptist View Post

    You must had felt pretty good that you cornered that poor rep? Maybe I should come into your work and start blowing up on you for something you have no power over and couldn't even get me to someone that could do it.

    People like you remind me of why I no longer work in the cellphone industry. At most you lost $5 and I'm sure you have done it before and will do it again. I just can't believe you decided to take it upon yourself to let Palm know what you thought.

    I wouldn't call you back either, you'r lucky he even said he would do anything for you. Why would they let you return an app? Especially with games? What would keep me from downloading playing the whole thing (or just part) in a couple hours and returning it?

    BooWhoo, next time read the reviews first. It's freak'n 2010 people!! You haven't been able to return software and media since the 80's!! All you can do is get another one. And he was right if you crack the seal nobody is taking back your software.

    I'm sure you feel intitled to be the exception to the rule and you thought that (like a child in the grocery store) if you cried loud enough long enough someone would cave.

    It would cost more to implement the policy and then your app prices will go up. They would have to set up the server and e-mail adress to (if they did it via electronic form) along with the code to check when you downloaded it, a program to access your pre (which I'm sure nobody wants Palm doing) and removing the program.

    Then they have to pay fees to the Credit Card company (because they charge a fee both ways). The dev wouldn't like it because then Palm would have to hold their profits for a month to ensure their wheren't any returns.

    Not to mention they would then have to hope you didn't pull the battery because it felt slow and messed up the process or they would have to lock you out of your device for that time (which I'm sure your to important to be incovenanced by this).

    It's just impratical and you where being irrational to even feel the need to let Palm know that you got your poor feelings hurt.
    Who are you responding to? No one in this thread has posted about blowing up at any reps. No one in this thread has posted about games. No one posted about hurt feelings.

    You've posted several inaccurate things, by the way.

    I do find it interesting that you feel that giving companies feedback is wrong, but you find it perfectly acceptable to tell other people what YOU think.
  8. squeff's Avatar
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       #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    This is all going to turn into more "check this box" "read this agreement" "hit yes if you agree" for all of us because some really really determined complainers.

    If you don't like the software, tell that to the developers for they are most directly responsible for making you believe their product was worth the money. I don't see how it was palm's fault.
    Palm is a retailer, like Target or Best Buy.

    Have you ever returned something to a store (that wasn't also the manufacturer)? If so, then you cannot possibly take this position.
  9. geodim's Avatar
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    #9  
    While it's unfortunate that the rep was obviously misinformed about various things, they were likely saying whatever they could to get you off the phone. I'm sure they get several calls a day from people looking for refunds for their $2 purchases and are tired of it. There are policies for a reason. If it was a game, for example, you could have already beat it by the time you requested a refund. These are used goods.

    This is no different than purchasing a video game at Best Buy, playing it and then going back the next day to return it. They will not take it back. At that point, you should provide the production/development company with your feedback, as they have sole control over the content of the product...not Best Buy.

    You should have made a better decision with your hard-earned money. You do not have to look far to find more information about an app...there are reviews built directly into the App Catalog. If you decided to buy an app before any reviews were published, you took a calculated risk and should just suck it up. Do more research next time. You seem to point the blame on everyone but yourself, when it was really your own fault that you were in this situation at all.

    I like the App Catalog the way it is. I find new apps. I read the reviews. I make a decision on whether or not said app is worth my $5. If I decide to buy the app, I hit download and enter my password. It's simple. Your suggestions would just make this process more difficult for the consumer, retailer and developer. I don't want to have to click through an EULA before purchasing every app. Palm doesn't want to deal with penny pinchers all day. The developers don't want to have to wait a grace period before getting paid.
    Last edited by geodim; 01/29/2010 at 02:03 AM.
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by neobaptist View Post

    You must had felt pretty good that you cornered that poor rep? Maybe I should come into your work and start blowing up on you for something you have no power over and couldn't even get me to someone that could do it.

    People like you remind me of why I no longer work in the cellphone industry. At most you lost $5 and I'm sure you have done it before and will do it again. I just can't believe you decided to take it upon yourself to let Palm know what you thought.

    I wouldn't call you back either, you'r lucky he even said he would do anything for you. Why would they let you return an app? Especially with games? What would keep me from downloading playing the whole thing (or just part) in a couple hours and returning it?

    BooWhoo, next time read the reviews first. It's freak'n 2010 people!! You haven't been able to return software and media since the 80's!! All you can do is get another one. And he was right if you crack the seal nobody is taking back your software.

    I'm sure you feel intitled to be the exception to the rule and you thought that (like a child in the grocery store) if you cried loud enough long enough someone would cave.

    It would cost more to implement the policy and then your app prices will go up. They would have to set up the server and e-mail adress to (if they did it via electronic form) along with the code to check when you downloaded it, a program to access your pre (which I'm sure nobody wants Palm doing) and removing the program.

    Then they have to pay fees to the Credit Card company (because they charge a fee both ways). The dev wouldn't like it because then Palm would have to hold their profits for a month to ensure their wheren't any returns.

    Not to mention they would then have to hope you didn't pull the battery because it felt slow and messed up the process or they would have to lock you out of your device for that time (which I'm sure your to important to be incovenanced by this).

    It's just impratical and you where being irrational to even feel the need to let Palm know that you got your poor feelings hurt.
    android lets you return appa, you have 24 hours to do so. And I believe if palm wanted to they would do the same.

    my opinion is that if an app can't hold it's value past 24 hrs then it probrobly wasn't worth the cost. Maybe palm has no faith in it's developer community and thinks people would return almost every app they buy. Then again I know there are people with too much time that can beat games in less than a day. It's a touchy subject, maybe a shorter period would be more appropriate, an hour or 30 min less, that should be plenty to figure out if the app lives up or not.


    but then again you could install the app, copy the folder from the crytofs (sp) directory and return to get money back. Then just copy the copied folder back to the pre and it would work perfectly. tim pretty sure THIS is why they don't allow it and I don't balme them. There are already pirated games and apps available without this
  11. #11  
    and for your info you can return played video games the next day...for store credit, I've seen it done plenty and don't understand it
  12. geodim's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by newone757 View Post
    and for your info you can return played video games the next day...for store credit, I've seen it done plenty and don't understand it
    I've worked in retail before and I've never seen this done, except in extreme conditions where the customer could prove that there was a legitimate problem, never because of buyer's remorse. I guess it would depend on the company's policy, but your example is not a common practice. At some point, a store may just give in, in order to get an angry customer out of their store.
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  13. squeff's Avatar
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       #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by geodim View Post
    While it's unfortunate that the rep was obviously misinformed about various things, they were likely saying whatever they could to get you off the phone. I'm sure they get several calls a day from people looking for refunds for their $2 purchases and are tired of it. There are policies for a reason. If it was a game, for example, you could have already beat it by the time you requested a refund. These are used goods.

    This is no different than purchasing a video game at Best Buy, playing it and then going back the next day to return it. They will not take it back. At that point, you should provide the production/development company with your feedback, as they have sole control over the content of the product...not Best Buy.

    You should have made a better decision with your hard-earned money. You do not have to look far to find more information about an app...there are reviews built directly into the App Catalog. If you decided to buy an app before any reviews were published, you took a calculated risk and should just suck it up. Do more research next time. You seem to point the blame on everyone but yourself, when it was really your own fault that you were in this situation at all.

    I like the App Catalog the way it is. I find new apps. I read the reviews. I make a decision on whether or not said app is worth my $5. If I decide to buy the app, I hit download and enter my password. It's simple. Your suggestions would just make this process more difficult for the consumer, retailer and developer. I don't want to have to click through an EULA before purchasing every app. Palm doesn't want to deal with penny pinchers all day. The developers don't want to have to wait a grace period before getting paid.
    So, what you are saying is that you've never purchased something from a store and then returned it. Never. Right?
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post
    Palm is a retailer, like Target or Best Buy.

    Have you ever returned something to a store (that wasn't also the manufacturer)? If so, then you cannot possibly take this position.
    No, you're absolutely right, but if you're returning something because you just don't like it, and aren't compatible with it, then it's still not Palm's fault.

    I actually don't feel right returning something I chose to buy and then complain about how it's not pleasing me, on a superficial level at least. For example, "I changed my mind", so I want you (the retailer) to take responsibility for it because I'm not going to stand up for my choice and dispose of this problem on someone else. While you may be used to giving the losses to the wrong person (because after all Palm isn't going to chase the developer for one complainer,) I just don't think your approach was correct.

    What I described above is just taking advantage of our (American consumer) freedom to return anything, no questions asked. It hurts businesses, unless that business can point the fault to the manufacturer. We take so much advantage of returning things, I'm surprised it hasn't become like it is in Europe, where returning for your money back is extremely limited.

    I am going to give you accord and say that I don't know the case exactly, but I think (and this is my honest opinion of way of living) that I'd rather avoid such conflicts, especially on something so small. Great people move on, avoid meaningless conflicts, learn from the wrongdoing, and inform others how to deal with this in a better way.

    I'm very sure the people that didn't agree with you in this, have all had either retail experience or are owners (or their loved ones) of small businesses (my case), which see how damaging hot-headed complaining is.

    We are all called to be moral and respectful people to deal with each other as human beings. If you want things to be different you have to start this at the level of your individual self. If your audience is less than knowledgeable about the situation, or just unhelpful, then BECOME the greater person and back down and deal with it in a better way. The greater person always moves on and chooses the less stressful more convenient way. Additionally, don't you worry, the greater person always knows how to move on and cover for their tiny losses by achieving more with their personality.

    I don't want to cause a hate between you and me, therefore I will tell you that I'm not criticizing your decision. I will tell you that this stress you're subjecting yourself to is detrimental to your health, it doesn't make you live a better life, and it will rub off on your acquaintances. It affects you more than you think, and I don't think it was worth it for the small dollar loss. If we as people put more effort into choosing wisdom over anger, life quality would increase tremendously.

    Please see this as a friendly response. I learned from this thread that I should (and will) review, research, and inform myself before making a purchase that I'm unsure of. I wish you a happy, stress-free, and healthy life. What is the app you didn't like so we may keep away?
  15. squeff's Avatar
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       #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    No, you're absolutely right, but if you're returning something because you just don't like it, and aren't compatible with it, then it's still not Palm's fault.
    I agree. I believe it's the developer's responsibility to provide sufficient information to allow the consumer to make the right choice. It's not Palm's responsibility, except to be able to provide the developer with a fair method of describing their product.

    However, Palm is responsible for providing consumers with honest answers and to follow through on commitments (such as an agreement to return a customer's call).

    And it's also valid for a consumer to give feedback and a company should listen and consider feedback. If the decision is "no," after consideration, that's appropriate. But Palm needs to at least consider what consumers are saying (hint: I'm not the only one that's suggested that an intelligent method of returns is worth considering).

    In this particular case, Palm is a special form of retailer, who has technological and contractual means to enact a returns policy, if it's a good business decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    I actually don't feel right returning something I chose to buy and then complain about how it's not pleasing me, on a superficial level at least. For example, "I changed my mind", so I want you (the retailer) to take responsibility for it because I'm not going to stand up for my choice and dispose of this problem on someone else. While you may be used to giving the losses to the wrong person (because after all Palm isn't going to chase the developer for one complainer,) I just don't think your approach was correct.
    But it sounds like you've done it. Further, a returns policy isn't just for superficial "I changed my mind." It's also for defects, misrepresentation, and issues such as incompatibility (e.g., for some reason, the software just won't run on my Pre). To lump all returns into "the customer is a loser that changed their mind" (I know these aren't your words) isn't fair to those that purchased, in good faith, and then realized that they'd be delivered something other than what was claimed.

    Personally, I think Palm should accept returns, use their "silver bullet" to disable the app from the person's Palm, and then take back from the developer the full amount. Which means that Palm still keeps their fee, which means Palm loses nothing on the deal. They still keep their handling fee, which pays for the infrastructure to support delivery and, in my scenario, returns.

    Will developers complain? Absolutely. But it places responsibility for truthful descriptions, technical support, and quality on the developer... where it belongs.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    What I described above is just taking advantage of our (American consumer) freedom to return anything, no questions asked.
    Actually, I advocate for "questions asked." At a return, the consumer should be required to give a (perhaps detailed) explanation. Couldn't get it to run on my Pre. Keeps crashing. Not what was claimed in the description. Like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    It hurts businesses, unless that business can point the fault to the manufacturer.
    Which is why I advocate that developer's be responsible for the refund, although Palm needs to facilitate since developers don't have credit card numbers, lists of purchasers, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    I am going to give you accord and say that I don't know the case exactly, but I think (and this is my honest opinion of way of living) that I'd rather avoid such conflicts, especially on something so small.
    And yet, you've taken the time to comment on my post. Which is fine. But if your argument is that some things aren't worth the time (like, in my case, doing research and offering feedback), I have to wonder why you've taken the time to post here.

    Not attacking you. Just wondering why something that would "rather avoid such conflicts" is "conflicting" (politely, as I did with Palm) with me?

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    Great people move on, avoid meaningless conflicts, learn from the wrongdoing, and inform others how to deal with this in a better way.
    Hence my post. I'm sharing my (as the title says) "intel" on the situation. Now, people that read this will know more.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    I'm very sure the people that didn't agree with you in this, have all had either retail experience or are owners (or their loved ones) of small businesses (my case), which see how damaging hot-headed complaining is.
    "Hot-headed complaining" is fightin' words.

    Was there something in my post that suggested that I was "hot-headed" or even complaining?

    In truth, I was polite, didn't hold anyone, that I spoke to, responsible for something other than their own job.

    Feedback and complaining are different things. To label what I did as "complaining" means that you were there and found me to be abusive.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    We are all called to be moral and respectful people to deal with each other as human beings. If you want things to be different you have to start this at the level of your individual self. If your audience is less than knowledgeable about the situation, or just unhelpful, then BECOME the greater person and back down and deal with it in a better way. The greater person always moves on and chooses the less stressful more convenient way. Additionally, don't you worry, the greater person always knows how to move on and cover for their tiny losses by achieving more with their personality.
    And, yet, you persist in shaking your finger at me. Not because we have a business relationship, but because you want to lecture me about how you are "great" and I'm a lesser person.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    I don't want to cause a hate between you and me, therefore I will tell you that I'm not criticizing your decision.
    But, you HAVE criticized. And not just the decision, but also me as a human being.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    I will tell you that this stress you're subjecting yourself to is detrimental to your health, it doesn't make you live a better life, and it will rub off on your acquaintances.
    Stress? My conversation with Palm did not cause me stress.

    But, yes, you lecturing me on how your approach is what "great" people do, how what I did wasn't right, and how my live and relationships are ruined does cause me some stress.

    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    It affects you more than you think, and I don't think it was worth it for the small dollar loss. If we as people put more effort into choosing wisdom over anger, life quality would increase tremendously.

    Please see this as a friendly response. I learned from this thread that I should (and will) review, research, and inform myself before making a purchase that I'm unsure of. I wish you a happy, stress-free, and healthy life. What is the app you didn't like so we may keep away?
    Thanks for the advice, although I'm still left wondering why you get to dole out advice on people's personalities, while someone that shared research is somehow not being a "great" person.

    Anyway, the software was "NewsRoom." Which was not adequately described.

    In the end, however, the developer stepped up, gave a refund from their own pocket (despite not having been paid a cent by Palm), and then took care of the concerns I had. Seeing how great this developer was for doing this, I repaid (directly) for the app and have been active in working with the developer to track down additional bugs (i.e., I'm an unpaid tester). Worked out for everyone.
  16. #16  
    I apologize for putting my opinions out like that, it wasn't meant to be an attack, even though it seems I created it to be. Sorry for finger pointing, please realize I also went on the general, not entirely specific to this case. I suppose I took out my very own complaint on the people that abuse the system. It seems you do these things intelligently so I salute you for doing so. I'm also glad you resolved the issue.
  17. squeff's Avatar
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       #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by abel_s View Post
    I apologize for putting my opinions out like that, it wasn't meant to be an attack, even though it seems I created it to be. Sorry for finger pointing, please realize I also went on the general, not entirely specific to this case. I suppose I took out my very own complaint on the people that abuse the system. It seems you do these things intelligently so I salute you for doing so. I'm also glad you resolved the issue.
    Cool. Much appreciated.
  18. geodim's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post
    So, what you are saying is that you've never purchased something from a store and then returned it. Never. Right?
    You're missing the point. Do me a favor: purchase a video game or software title from any one of the major retailers, open the packaging and then try to return it. Good luck.

    The "no returns" policy has been an accepted standard in the software business for years. Especially with video games, as you could beat the game in a few days and then return it. Also, when you initially entered your billing information, you agreed to this policy in the terms and conditions.
  19. squeff's Avatar
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       #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by geodim View Post
    You're missing the point. Do me a favor: purchase a video game or software title from any one of the major retailers, open the packaging and then try to return it. Good luck.

    The "no returns" policy has been an accepted standard in the software business for years. Especially with video games, as you could beat the game in a few days and then return it. Also, when you initially entered your billing information, you agreed to this policy in the terms and conditions.
    No, I think you missed my point (my fault for not being more clear, however).

    You said "You should have made a better decision with your hard-earned money. You do not have to look far to find more information about an app...there are reviews built directly into the App Catalog. If you decided to buy an app before any reviews were published, you took a calculated risk and should just suck it up. Do more research next time. You seem to point the blame on everyone but yourself, when it was really your own fault that you were in this situation at all. "

    That would hold true about shirts, crackers, washing machines, or dishes. It sounds like you believe that before someone purchases something... anything... they need to read reviews, make certain that they are not willing to return the item. And, further, that if the item is defective or otherwise does not work for the purchaser, that the purchaser should bear full responsibility.

    Have you ever returned something? If so, then you should not be lecturing others about needing to "made a better decision with your hard-earned money." Because, you, yourself, have made bad decisions and then expected the store to return your money.

    The fact that software has its own rules (it doesn't, but retail employees are mislead into thinking that it does) was not what I was saying.

    "Especially with video games, as you could beat the game in a few days and then return it."

    The same can be said about many things. Someone can buy a load of dishes at Target, throw a party, and then return them for a full refund. If that someone put the items back in the original box, Target is none-the-wiser. What's more, if they put them back on the shelf, someone else is going to be buying used dishes. With Palm software, there is no physical loss on a return. The loss is limited to transaction cost and lost sale. The argument put forth on software is that people are inherently dishonest and we want to punish everyone because some steal or cheat the system. In this case, there are technological means of limiting this, so I think it's a valid discussion.

    Lastly, I have specific training/education and years of experience in the legal aspects in the software field. What retail employees are told about software licensing and the law isn't really accurate. That said, I'm not trying to make a legal argument here.
  20. squeff's Avatar
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       #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by caj2008 View Post
    Please switch to Android so you can finally be happy
    Why do people feel that it's so inappropriate for someone to share their thoughts on a subject, that they'd post something like this?
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