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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Khidr View Post
    The only changes I'd like to see would be enabling more hardware support (multitouch inparticular), and as some have mentioned, allowing a true full screen mode, without the virtualized palm controls. If you did those things, and opened it up for development, you'd probably see a ton of new crossover apps, games, and other goodies that need a more native environment.
    absolutely! For many applications a third of screen real estate is wasted by the representation of the hardware itself. Number one improvement - allow to hide bottom of screen
  2. JerryG's Avatar
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    #22  
    1) I'd like to see full screen support also.

    2) I'd pay another $10 for it, no complaints.

    3) And the majority of my PalmOS apps came to my Pre via the device chain you'll see in my sig below, so they work full screen.

    Cheers,
    -JerryG
    Uniden PC100 -> Visor -> Visor Pro w/VisorPhone -> Tungsten T -> Tungsten T2 -> Tungsten T5 -> TX -> Treo 650 -> Treo 755p -> Pre -> Evo 4G
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps View Post
    Full screen, oh full screen how I need thou…

    This is our take: if we find a way to develop the option to support full screen as you envision it, this would be a serious job development wise, and serious amount of time would be needed for this.

    So the questions MotionApps as Classic developer must ask are:
    1. how many of your favs support full screen?
    The vast majority of my favorite Palm apps support full screen. I doubt I'm alone in this. In fact, the lack of full screen makes some of them nearly unusable, e-readers for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps View Post
    2. do you think that developers of your fav apps would invest time and effort in redesigning their Palm OS apps to take advantage of the full screen – in case they do not so already?
    No, frankly I do not. Largely because I don't believe there are all that many Palm OS developers that haven't given up active development on the platform. As such, I don't believe this is a factor you should even be considering.

    That said, there are a huge number of full screen apps. A great many of the best Palm apps ever produced support full screen, especially multi-media and gaming titles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps View Post
    3. how much would you pay for upgrading to Classic version supporting full screen/upgrading Palm OS apps versions supporting full screen
    Nothing. The product is incomplete (in my estimation) without full screen. In fact, I believe lack of full screen is probably costing you money by doing significant damage to sales of the existing product. Classic is by far the single most expensive app for the Pre. Still, I think it would be worth it, very much worth it if Classic provided something akin to the experience of a TX or Lifedrive rather than the lowly Centro.

    I very much want to like and want to use Classic. I find the current implementation of Classic to be completely underwhelming, especially at the price. The system freezes I've experienced are enough reason to hold back (for now), the navigation issues are troublesome but workable (difficult to select items and scroll bars).

    It is the lack of full screen that is the clincher, the deal breaker, the reason I won't purchase, nor recommend others purchase the app.

    At this point in time, Classic simply doesn't compare to competing Palm emulators on other platforms. (Styletap) When it does, it will certainly be worth a purchase, perhaps even worth the $50 Styletap commands. Right now I cannot recommend it at the price.

    Bottom line: If we were to have Pre users list their top-ten favorite Palm OS apps, I suspect that a strong majority of those apps would be full screen apps. The fact that Classic doesn't support full screen, especially given the Pre's diminished screen size, is (I believe) doing severe damage to the sales of your product.

    Now if your marketing suggests you'll make the vast majority of your revenue from selling large quantities of Classic to enterprise customers with legacy Palm apps designed for Centro level devices, then you should probably ignore our pleas for full screen.

    If however, you are truly trying to make this product worthwhile to individual consumers, then I believe a failure to provide full screen will severely impact revenues. Of course, only you can estimate where the break even point is.

    Honestly and unfortunately, as things stand now, Classic is not getting a lot of good buzz.
  4. zonyl's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toasters View Post
    Largely because I don't believe there are all that many Palm OS developers that haven't given up active development on the platform. As such, I don't believe this is a factor you should even be considering.

    That said, there are a huge number of full screen apps. A great many of the best Palm apps ever produced support full screen, especially multi-media and gaming titles.
    Im not so sure about developers giving up the PalmOS platform. Ask Resco.net, Astraware, etc. I will tell you though that if Classic supported the hardware of the Pre (Screen, Accel, MultiTouch, Phone, UDP, etc) I would be reviving my Codewarrior installation. I would imagine it wouldnt be hard for the dormant PalmOS authors to update their apps to be Finger-Friendly for a larger market.

    I would guess that roughly 70-80% of the purchasers of the Pre have never used / know of a PalmOS application. But Ill bet some buzz would be generated if Classic allowed for some real applications on the phone.

    Here is a list of applications that cannot be produced with MoJo (Web OS) but would have potential on Classic.

    - File Manager
    - Windows File Share browser
    - Arcade Gaming (Multi-touch / high refresh Accelerometer)
    - Media Players that can handle other codecs.
    - Image/Photo Editing
    - Offline E-readers that arent limited to certain formats
    - Real VNC / Real Windows Remote Desktop protocol.
    - Network tools; portscan, traceroute, telnet, ssh, etc.
    - VPN
    - Voice Command / Dialing
    - VoIP client
    - Reject / Block calls based on CID.

    * It would be nice to change Classic to run Apps from a bookmark/something from WebOS. Aka. I can click on an icon for an individual App and start as a card from within WebOS.
  5. #25  
    Although Classic works fine with many PalmOS apps which became essential to me (e.g Resco IDGuard), I find it always hard to hit the virtual 5-way-buttons - especially because in Europa we are still forced to use WebOS 1.1.3 with its well-known limitations.

    Why not using a more WebOS-like navigation? What about simulating the 5-way-buttons using gestures like swipe left/right, flick up/down and back/forward? Supporting a real full-screen as requested by many Classic users would anyway require an adequate replacement for the 5-way-buttons.
  6. #26  
    I use the Classic app as mostly transitional - all the apps that I used on PalmOS, I am hoping will be ported to native WebOS versions (Docs to Go, Pocket Quicken), but am not holding my breath, and need to use them NOW.

    Thankfully Classic with HotSync accommodates this well.

    One thing I would like to see, if at all possible, is to maybe have a toggle between the 5 way pad, and a graffiti area. I became quite proficient with graffiti, and it is might be more convenient to enter something that way instead of popping open the keyboard.

    Another thing that would be nice is putting an icon in WebOS that would automatically launch an app within Classic. That would be cool.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by DryBear View Post
    Another thing that would be nice is putting an icon in WebOS that would automatically launch an app within Classic. That would be cool.
    Interesting - not the first request of this kind. So we'll just have to wait and see how cool Classic can be.

    (Wednesday is the traditional day for speaking in rhymes here at MotionApps, so worry not, we're still developers, not poet wannabes)
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  8. #28  
    It seems like the PalmOS emulator on the Pre might provide a programmer with a richer environment, or for any number of reasons at least a "better" environment than Javascript, at least for some apps. BUT, if (artificially) constrained to the UI of a Palm Centro, or even a Palm TX, there's only so much you can do.

    What would be interesting to see is how far you could get if you completely take away the constraints of the Palm UI, and see what you can do with the Palm OS, optimized for the Pre UI. Soon you would be constrained by the lack of system calls to the Pre, I suppose, but maybe you'd still end up with a much richer platform. And now the Pre would be a dual platform. This would also be an answer to the open/closed platform debate -- it can be both.

    IMO, that's the kind of thinking that needs to happen to tip the scales to "destination", and away from "transition".

    Regards,
    Tom
  9. bbaratz's Avatar
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    #29  
    A destination for the programs that I have such as Pocket Quicken and Keysuites, that aren't in Webos.
    But, I feel classic is slowing my Palm pre down. It seems less responsive to the touch screen and initializing of programs on the webos side. To test it, I deleted classic this morning and rebooted, and the Pre overall was much faster initializing programs and more responsive on the touch screen.
    Anyone else have this??
    Thanks.
  10. #30  
    I have about 12 years 'invested' in Palm OS. $30 to recover a whole lot of what I have gotten used to and depended on is a bargain as far as I am concerned. I really liked my Pre from day one but missed some of the PALM OS fearures. Since installing Classic I am now "back in business" and thrilled. I would've paid a whole lot more more for this app!
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by jfscars48 View Post
    I have about 12 years 'invested' in Palm OS. $30 to recover a whole lot of what I have gotten used to and depended on is a bargain as far as I am concerned. I really liked my Pre from day one but missed some of the PALM OS fearures. Since installing Classic I am now "back in business" and thrilled. I would've paid a whole lot more more for this app!
    From an end users point of view I would like to see the 320x480 Tx screen implemented.

    Ultimately for Classic to avoid being transitional, to be integrated into webOS so that it is seemless. Something similar to a theme/desktop which is switchable between the two but in a webOS theme/desktop webOS applications run, and in Seemless Classic theme/desktop, PalmOS applications run.

    Seemless in this case means using the same input/swipe/edit/flick etc in classic palm applications as in webOS applications.

    I would also be willing to pay for future upgrades towards the goal as I have also been a user of Palm applications for the last 15 or so years.

    By the way, does anyone know if Mocean music player from motionapps runs well in classic. I was surprised not to see it in the list of classic certified applications at motionapps website. They are better placed to let us know whether their palmOS applications are Classic certified or not.

    I have a european palm pre so still short of other classic capabilities.
  12. #32  
    I'm a longtime user of Palm OS (since 10 years) and I just don't want to give up on it. So, for me Classic is a destination.

    The two things that I'm missing is of course the full screen 480x320 support - Classic should emulate the TX and not the Centro imho. The most important reference applications (dictionaries, maps, encyclopediae) all support the higher resolution. The other would be a direct sync from Classic PIM to webOS PIMs. Right now, webOS PIMs are a huge disappointment (Memos???) and I prefer the Palm ones. Generally, a tight integration with webOS would be a huge plus!

    Classic is quite expensive already. However, it was _the_ reason why I bought the Pre in the first place. I'd even spent some money for an update, if these feature are implemented.
  13. #33  
    At this time, Classic is a destination for me. It's not perfect for sure as I've experienced several auto resets and occasional freezes. It also won't allow me to play some of the games that I have on my TX (e.g., Redshift's Legacy). Maneuvering within Classic can also be a challenge without a stylus -- e.g., trying to scroll up/down can be particularly difficult.

    Overall though, I've been pleased with Classic. I was able to transfer all of my contacts (with categories!) and calendar info without problem except for the home addresses becoming work addresses due to a glitch in Palm Desktop 6.2. I was also extremely happy about getting both WiFi and especially Bluetooth Hotsync to work flawlessly and consistently (I waited to installl Classic until it had this feature). I also recently discovered to my pleasant surprise that I could dial out (or email out) from within Classic while in contacts by using the Connect function in the drop down menu. I had never used this before with my TX as it's of course not a phone and I rarely used the internet connection with the TX. I've also been highly impressed with the responsiveness of Motionapps' customer support to my queries and their participation in these forums. I started a thread about the button mapping (launcher buttons) in Classic. After hearing from the participants in the thread, Motionapps added the information to their online FAQ complete with pictures!

    I do hope for more improvements in Classic including some of the suggestions made in this thread including trying to do away with some of the constraints of the old Palm OS and interacting with WebOS in more direct ways.

    Despite its flaws, I have no regrets paying the $30 for this app. Been totally worth it for me.
  14. neve's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps View Post
    Full screen, oh full screen how I need thou…

    Fair.

    This is our take: if we find a way to develop the option to support full screen as you envision it, this would be a serious job development wise, and serious amount of time would be needed for this.

    So the questions MotionApps as Classic developer must ask are:
    1. how many of your favs support full screen?
    2. do you think that developers of your fav apps would invest time and effort in redesigning their Palm OS apps to take advantage of the full screen – in case they do not so already?
    3. how much would you pay for upgrading to Classic version supporting full screen/upgrading Palm OS apps versions supporting full screen
    1. CALENDAR. Media players. Ebook readers. For me, it's all about the calendar. I would even cream at a standalone Palm OS calendar.
    2. No. But There are hundreds? thousands? of apps that played just fine on my TX in fullscreen mode.
    3. I'd pay $10-15, east, for a full screen upgrade, or even for a standalone calendar.

    Please do it!! There's no reason not to take advantage of the full screen.
  15. #35  
    If Motion Apps Classic can achieve seamless syncing with Palm Desktop for my contacts, memos, and LinkeSOFT Secret!, which is easily the best password and private information keeper in the world, so that I can migrate from my Palm Tungsten T5 (just like I migrated from my Palm IIIxe many years ago) then this is a destination for me.

    Otherwise, the Palm Pre was just another bad decision for me based on hope and change.
    Palm IIIxe → Palm Tungsten T5 → Palm Pre
  16. #36  
    I have few problems with this being a destination (as I currently think of it). However, there are some desires.
    1. Faster load time. With no major improvement there the next point is a non-issue.
    2. Full screen.
    justjill3

    Palm Pre!!!,Treo 755p, Treo 650, more Palm devices in the past, ect., ect., etc.
    Running Datebk6, Takephone, Butler, Technician, Pocket Tunes Deluxe, Cleanup, Uninstall, Splash Suite, Zlauncher, Reset Doctor, SafeGuard, Power Hero, Audible, Audio Gateway...
  17. #37  
    With SplashData products using Cloud storage only (and not all of the products having been ported to WebOS yet), Classic is a destination for me.
  18. ekuns's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps View Post
    This is our take: if we find a way to develop the option to support full screen as you envision it, this would be a serious job development wise, and serious amount of time would be needed for this.
    Most of my favorite apps support full-screen, a-la the Tungsten T|3 slider. AcidSolitare, eReaderPro, SplashMoney, and so on. If it were a serious development effort, I would probably be willing to pay $10 for an upgrade to a full-screen-supporting version.
  19. #39  
    Coming from the Palm Tungsten T5 with full-time full-screen, I agree with you on the full-screen version — and paying extra for the upgrade — but, first let's get WebOS 1.3.5 working.
    Palm IIIxe → Palm Tungsten T5 → Palm Pre
  20. #40  
    Besides the full screen support (Mobipocket eBooks have only a very limited space to show the content!), and even better full screen with status bar, as on LD, TX, T5, etc., I have a couple of more wishes for Classic:

    • Bluetooth support (e. g. for BT keyboards like my Freedom Input KB. Doesn't work with WebOS eiter, due to missing BT profiles )
    • GPS support (e. g. to get PathAway to work - BT GPS would be good enough as a workaround, internal GPS would be perfect)
    • Increased DBCache (7 MB, usable chunk < 4 MB, definitely is to small. Centro has 17 MB, usable chunk 12 MB. This will make DBCache hungry apps running, like Garmin's Mobile XT.) I'm quite sure that some of Classic's instability and "illegal operation" blue screens are a consequence of missing DBCache.
    • Voice recording capability (I was using my LD extensively as a professional voice recorder for speech recognition via Dragon Naturally Speaking. Actually now to a lesser extent, as my employer installed his own speech recognition system which I am using currently.)
    • Please let orange+sym+P bypass to WebOS, so we can get Classic Screenshots more easily. Currently we get the following:
    • DA support would be fine, but is not a must-have for me. Many DAs just crash Classic, e. g. HRCaptDA (see previous list item).

    For a true full compatibility to Garnet apps I will spend some more 20 bucks. Even more, if it's truly full compatible.

    Thank you for your efforts so far!
    Last edited by ZehHa; 01/02/2010 at 08:45 AM.
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