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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Forgive me for raining on the parade, but do we have licensing issues here? Is Palm's player open source? I mean, I know we can see the source and copy it and modify it, but that's different from distributing an app that is based on it.
    We are in uncharted waters here. I don't know of another phone that you can upgrade the actual apps such as the music player.

    It is amazing and weird to have a truly open source phone.

    - Craig
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Milominderbinder View Post
    We are in uncharted waters here. I don't know of another phone that you can upgrade the actual apps such as the music player.

    It is amazing and weird to have a truly open source phone.

    - Craig
    But is "available source" the same as "open source" in this situation? Sure, the source code is available for all to see, but is it openly provided with the intention of users modifying the code? Don't get me wrong, I love Music Player (Remix) and I'm all in favor of the work being done, I'm just curious as to whether or not Palm cand decide to say "knock it off" and have legal standing based on their licensing.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by teej51685 View Post
    But is "available source" the same as "open source" in this situation? Sure, the source code is available for all to see, but is it openly provided with the intention of users modifying the code? Don't get me wrong, I love Music Player (Remix) and I'm all in favor of the work being done, I'm just curious as to whether or not Palm cand decide to say "knock it off" and have legal standing based on their licensing.
    Before releasing the app, I emailed the PreCentral folks and let them know my intentions to release it in the Homebrew forum. I left it up to them whether they wanted to post it in the gallery. Also I indicated in the OP of the thread that if Palm ever wanted the app removed, it would be immediately removed.

    Palm has never asked for it to be removed. I emailed them about it last week and never heard back. So I'm taking their silence to mean they're okay with it.

    So far, Palm seems to be okay with many of the homebrew projects that have altered the functionality of their phone. If they weren't okay with this, I'm sure they wouldn't have chosen HTML/CSS/Javascript as their development environment for their built-in apps and OS. They could have easily developed their apps and the OS using a compiled language.
  4. KJ78's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by teej51685 View Post
    But is "available source" the same as "open source" in this situation? Sure, the source code is available for all to see, but is it openly provided with the intention of users modifying the code? Don't get me wrong, I love Music Player (Remix) and I'm all in favor of the work being done, I'm just curious as to whether or not Palm cand decide to say "knock it off" and have legal standing based on their licensing.
    is modifying Palm's music player code any different than any other homebrew app? if Remix was being sold Palm would have a case, but this is not the situation.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Before releasing the app, I emailed the PreCentral folks and let them know my intentions to release it in the Homebrew forum. I left it up to them whether they wanted to post it in the gallery. Also I indicated in the OP of the thread that if Palm ever wanted the app removed, it would be immediately removed.

    Palm has never asked for it to be removed. I emailed them about it last week and never heard back. So I'm taking their silence to mean they're okay with it.

    So far, Palm seems to be okay with many of the homebrew projects that have altered the functionality of their phone. If they weren't okay with this, I'm sure they wouldn't have chosen HTML/CSS/Javascript as their development environment for their built-in apps and OS. They could have easily developed their apps and the OS using a compiled language.
    That, and the fact that it is not being sold, makes me feel better about it. It's good to see that you're being up front about it. Anyway, I doubt Palm has anything they're really trying to protect in the music player.

    It would be nice to get an official stance on this from Chuq so that other developers could understand where exactly the lanes in the road are. Maybe it is clearly stated somewhere.

    Good on ya, Dan, for taking the high road.

    @Milominderbinder: The pre is not open source. It has a lot of open source in it, and it's easy to see the source code for much of it, but that doesn't mean it's open source. But probably the actual WebOS itself (I mean the application that runs on Linux and serves up our cards and the launcher) is what they really want to protect, and I believe much of that is in binaries.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by KJ78 View Post
    is modifying Palm's music player code any different than any other homebrew app? if Remix was being sold Palm would have a case, but this is not the situation.
    I am not a developer, but yes, it is different in most cases. Most of the homebrew apps were started by scratch, using just the Palm-provided SDK. Although certainly many of the developers have learned from the source in the Palm-provided apps, that's much different than redistributing an app that is just a modified version of a Palm-app.

    It's the same as the difference between writing your own book (despite any influences on your writing style from other books) and taking someone else's book and modifying it, which is actually okay as long as the original author is okay with it, and as long as you say that that is what you've done (as appears to be the case here). There is still a difference.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  7. #27  
    You have to realize when I started the Remix project it was meant to be an educational experience for me, as well as a way to improve the music player for myself. I never thought of releasing it to the public. But after I finished a few of the features, I thought other people might enjoy them as well. I actually thought that PreCentral would not post the app in the homebrew gallery (due to it being built with Palm source code) and I indicated this in my email to them...but they allowed it to be posted and now here we are.

    There are two main reasons why I modified the built-in app instead of creating a brand new one:

    1) I think the overall design of the built-in app is kinda nice and intuitive to use. I didn't really see a need to drastically re-design the user interface. For the most part, other than some of the lacking features and some of the speed issues, I think it's a nice player.

    2) I find it more beneficial when learning a brand new development environment to play with existing code before building an app from scratch. After working with this code, I now know what to do, as well as what not to do, when designing WebOS apps.
  8. #28  
    This is, without a doubt, hands down, my favorite app on the pre so far!


    Since I am here, I might as well ask a quick question. Is there a way to delete music files directly from the player without doing it via my PC? When I slide them left or right, it doesn't ask me to confirm a deletion, but it temporarily moves it from the playlist.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by cagefighter View Post
    This is, without a doubt, hands down, my favorite app on the pre so far!


    Since I am here, I might as well ask a quick question. Is there a way to delete music files directly from the player without doing it via my PC? When I slide them left or right, it doesn't ask me to confirm a deletion, but it temporarily moves it from the playlist.
    No currently there is no way that I know of to delete music files from the device.
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    @Milominderbinder: The pre is not open source. It has a lot of open source in it, and it's easy to see the source code for much of it, but that doesn't mean it's open source. But probably the actual WebOS itself (I mean the application that runs on Linux and serves up our cards and the launcher) is what they really want to protect, and I believe much of that is in binaries.
    Sorry. I meant that as available source code.

    Imagine Microsoft or Apple making their code available so that developers could re-write their built-in apps?

    Try to image them allowing the re-written app to be posted on the biggest forum.

    Try to image Apple not kidnapping you and taking you to their secret prison in Turkey.

    I honestly am amazed that Palm seems so far to be fine with Music Player (Remix) being posted here. I always make sure that I save the most recent version to my PC as well as installing it on my Pre just in case.

    - Craig
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    No currently there is no way that I know of to delete music files from the device.
    Wow. I am thinking that when I am out, I don't want there to be a chance that I could accidentally delete a song and then have the deletion sync with my library...

    - Craig
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    No currently there is no way that I know of to delete music files from the device.
    Can't you just go into the Music folder and delete the song while you're media sync'ed onto your computer?
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Milominderbinder View Post
    Here is the link to Last.FM. We should also note that Pandora is in the regular Palm App Catalog.

    In addition, Derek Kessler just reviewed a variety of other streaming audio apps for the Pre:

    PreCentral Homebrew Gallery bubbling over with streaming music apps.

    Maybe if there is enough interest there will be a full app for Last.FM as well.

    - Craig
    I don't think you understood. Scrobbling is not streaming.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by vangogh35 View Post
    Can't you just go into the Music folder and delete the song while you're media sync'ed onto your computer?
    I meant there's no way to delete files using the device as the deletion tool. Yes, you can delete files on your PC when the device is connected to it.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by gage006 View Post
    I don't think you understood. Scrobbling is not streaming.
    Don't both last.fm and Pandora stream music using a recommender system based upon a heuristic analysis of previous choices?

    Their stated methods are different but their goals are the same: create a stream of music predicted to be the songs each listener most wants to hear at a particular time.

    - Craig
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Milominderbinder View Post
    Don't both last.fm and Pandora stream music using a recommender system based upon a heuristic analysis of previous choices?

    Their stated methods are different but their goals are the same: create a stream of music predicted to be the songs each listener most wants to hear at a particular time.

    - Craig
    Not at all. Last.FM Scrobbling basically keeps a list of all the music you listen to. This can be used just to display on a website or it can be integrated to give you recommendations through the streaming application.

    I could care less about the streaming, all I want is for it to send the songs i'm listening to back to Last.FM for me.

    First part of Last.FM's wikipedia explains it.
    Last.fm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by gage006 View Post
    Not at all. Last.FM Scrobbling basically keeps a list of all the music you listen to. This can be used just to display on a website or it can be integrated to give you recommendations through the streaming application.

    I could care less about the streaming, all I want is for it to send the songs i'm listening to back to Last.FM for me.

    First part of Last.FM's wikipedia explains it.
    Last.fm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Why not use the last.fm ScrobblePod to send the song lists from your iTunes to Last.fm every time you sync?

    - Craig
  18. #38  
    Is there any way to put a sleep timer like the ones they have on TVs and radios? I would love to put some music and have the program shut down when I'm sleeping.
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    #39  
    Thank you and congratulations on what looks like an awesome app.

    One quick question though....I can't see the time (spent/remaining? on the sides under the slider because of the two icons for shuffle and the recycle thingy. What am I missing?

    Thanks

    bj
  20. gage006's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Milominderbinder View Post
    Why not use the last.fm ScrobblePod to send the song lists from your iTunes to Last.fm every time you sync?

    - Craig
    Because I don't sync that often. Why not have it built into the music player or even a separate service that runs in the background to send that small amount of data every time I listen to a song. This is exactly what I had on my iPod Touch and it worked flawlessly.
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