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  1. urkel's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Carioca_FL View Post
    Yeah, I have to agree with the OP: forcing the user to visit yet another site just to purchase an app is nonsense. Also, smaller developers may not have the infrastructure in place to serve those apps.
    I agree also because this is much closer to the WinMo model than the Apple one. Sure, you get a central directory but you're also more inconvenienced. And for the casual users then "we've got an app for everything" means nothing if it's not ultra-simple for everyone.
  2. #22  
    I know for windows users it's normal to search all over the internet for software and hope it is compatable and not filled with viruses, but for those of us running a good linux distro like Ubuntu, anything that doesn't have a good central software repository (which it's sounding like the pre app store isn't a repository at all, but just an index of 3rd party webpages) is a huge step backwards.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by akula34 View Post
    No offense, but DataViz doesn't market the app to people like you. They market the app to people who make their living by using their smartphones to update docs for business deals or critical business needs.

    $70 is NOTHING in the business world. It's well worth it for the capability. Ask ANYONE who runs a business on the go.
    Datavis may market to people who think they are important enough to justify a $70 mobile app. (My Centro came out of the box ready to edit apps, and the whole phone was $99)

    But the Pre is aimed at "the fat middle". Please see the warnings in Sprints service guide about not selling the Pre to "serious" business users. (those with real IT requirements)
  4. akula34's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    Datavis may market to people who think they are important enough to justify a $70 mobile app. (My Centro came out of the box ready to edit apps, and the whole phone was $99)

    But the Pre is aimed at "the fat middle". Please see the warnings in Sprints service guide about not selling the Pre to "serious" business users. (those with real IT requirements)
    What is your daily job?
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by akula34 View Post
    What is your daily job?
    I am a Prepress Operations Technician. I have a college degree.

    I used to be more of a graphic designer, but I changed over to the more technical aspect of the print industry.

    Because you probably don't know what that is, I will explain.

    My job is to accept digital files from my companies clients, check them for a variety of technical errors that could cause problems on a printing press (but don't show on a home inkjet or business laser) and output them to a lithographic printing plate.

    At least $250,000 of printing goes through me on a monthly basis. I deal with a lot of Microsoft Office files. Even though most people in my line of work think that Office is a toy undeserving of professional publishing. We get really upset when someone sends us a Publisher file. :-) Shrudders.

    It's not as easy as it sounds, btw.
    Last edited by Captweez; 05/27/2009 at 11:09 PM.
  6. akula34's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    I am a Prepress Operations Technician. I have a college degree.

    I used to be more of a graphic designer, but I changed over to the more technical aspect of the print industry.

    Because you probably don't know what that is, I will explain.

    My job is to accept digital files from my companies clients, check them for a variety of technical errors that could cause problems on a printing press (but don't show on a home inkjet) and output them to a lithographic printing plate.

    It's not as easy as it sounds, btw.
    No, I would make no assumptions on the difficulty of a job. I'm a pretty serious amateur photographer and understand quite a bit of the offset industry. I'm well aware of the skill and cost of a lithograph.

    Now, my original point about cost of applications, is that in your job, would you say that you're constantly on the go? I'll infer that the answer is no, based on your description of your job. It sounds like you're in an office most of the day.

    You're merely reaffirmed my point that Dataviz doesn't market to people like you.

    Now, if Palm chooses to include it in their software by striking a deal with DataViz, great... but we'll have to agree to disagree on the cost.

    I'm about to foot $5k to start development of a mobile application for my business. Why? Because having access to our data and moving our inspections to electronic form will save us time, improve our customer service and (most importantly) allow us to do MORE business in the same amount of time. As a business owner, that's what matters.

    My rant is over... the bottom line is the Return on Investment. For an individual user, who might occasionally edit docs wouldn't have the same ROI as a user like me.

    That's the great thing about business... not everyone fits into the same mold.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
  7.    #27  
    Yea I guess, but you seem to be discounting the whole notion of economies of scale as well as the fact that Sprint itself admits that the Pre is a poor fit for businesses with large scale IT operations.

    If you work in a business that doesn't require IT policies like remote data wipe through exchange, etc, AND consider $70 to be a drop in the bucket, that makes the model a great fit for you.

    But I think there are at least twice the amount of people in my situation, then there are in your situation. Many, many more people who would be willing to pay $35. If you get enough people to buy at low margins, you don't need to charge an arm and a leg.

    No, I don't leave the office on a regular basis, although our salespeople do.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post

    I'm sure there are plenty of other processes that were developed. Much of this infrastructure already existed in iTunes when Apple decided to become a vendor of creative content. Initially, Apple figured it would be a wash with the 30% share of the purchase price just covering their costs. It turned out to be much more successful than anyone expected.
    Yea talk about ROI. :-)
  9. akula34's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    Yea I guess, but you seem to be discounting the whole notion of economies of scale as well as the fact that Sprint itself admits that the Pre is a poor fit for businesses with large scale IT operations.

    If you work in a business that doesn't require IT policies like remote data wipe through exchange, etc, AND consider $70 to be a drop in the bucket, that makes the model a great fit for you.

    But I think there are at least twice the amount of people in my situation, then there are in your situation. Many, many more people who would be willing to pay $35. If you get enough people to buy at low margins, you don't need to charge an arm and a leg.

    No, I don't leave the office on a regular basis, although our salespeople do.
    Here's an experiment... ask the salespeople what they'd be willing to pay for an app to make their life easier and make a sale...
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    I'd rather see apps that sell for $1 to 500,000 users then one that sells for 50 to 10,000.
    Well, I suppose that depends on who you are. As the seller of an application, I'd MUCH rather sell 10,000 copies for $50 each. That would mean 490,000 fewer transactions to process (regardless of how) and track, 490,000 fewer possible returns to worry about, and 490,000 fewer users to support.

    As a buyer, I see a $50 application as likely to provide more value than a $1 application. I really do believe in the adage that you get what you pay for.

    In fact, although I haven't studied it, I wonder how many developers have gone into the iPhone app game specifically thinking they'd make an app for $1 and 500,000 people would buy it--vs. people who make a relatively useless app for $1 and just get lucky. Not really sure how much of a business model (serious business model, I mean) one can develop around a $1 application.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Well, I suppose that depends on who you are. As the seller of an application, I'd MUCH rather sell 10,000 copies for $50 each. That would mean 490,000 fewer transactions to process (regardless of how) and track, 490,000 fewer possible returns to worry about, and 490,000 fewer users to support.

    As a buyer, I see a $50 application as likely to provide more value than a $1 application. I really do believe in the adage that you get what you pay for.

    In fact, although I haven't studied it, I wonder how many developers have gone into the iPhone app game specifically thinking they'd make an app for $1 and 500,000 people would buy it--vs. people who make a relatively useless app for $1 and just get lucky. Not really sure how much of a business model (serious business model, I mean) one can develop around a $1 application.
    Actually according to your model, it doesn't depend on who you are. More expensive apps are good for everyone. :-)

    By having a third party, all encompassing, software clearinghouse, transactional costs for high volume are not significantly, if at all higher. That's the whole point. Also, I don't think Apple allows "returns" so there are 0 chance for returns.

    Let me give you an example from my business. Stock photography. (say I'm designing a publication and want to legally buy an image of something to include in my publication)

    About 10-15 years ago, the old model was to pay $100-400 an image to a stock photography agency, who contracted professional photographers to shoot really nice photos of a variety of subjects. You'd tell them what you'd need a picture of and they'd get it for you. And you'd pay... dearly.

    Until about 2000, when a company called istock pioneered the use of a "micopayment model". They allowed any Joe Smoe to sell them images. You didn't need to be a "pro" photographer. They didn't sell for very much. At that time you bought them for a buck or two rather than $200. It was a wild concept for the time. Pretty soon everyone was getting images from istock, and the little Joe Smoe photographer with a great image was selling 250,000 at a couple bucks a piece, rather then three or four at $200.

    It was a wildly successful model. I'm sure nobody at the time thought anyone could make any money selling images for a few dollars.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    They allowed any Joe Smoe to sell them images. You didn't need to be a "pro" photographer.
    You make some valid points, but that also explains why, out of 40 million* or however many apps there are in the Apple App Store, only some few thousand (I've seen estimates as low as 1000) are actually quality apps that are worth using for any extended amount of time.

    A low enough cost of entry into a market means that any Joe Smoe can enter it, as you say. Personally, though, I don't really want to have to slog through thousands of fart apps or their equivalents to find good software.

    *Exaggerating for effect. I do understand that there are really only 14 million apps in the Apple App Store, including 13.999 million that mimic some bodily function.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    you are taken to the developerís website to purchase the app.)"
    Wait, what?! I totally missed that one, and if that's the case, they just blew it with regards to the app store. Wow.

    The whole beauty of Apple's App Store is that everything is very nicely integrated. Buying apps is as simple as buying music, and there isn't any fuss or registration or waiting for three emails to come with different activation links and codes. It's stuff like that which drives people to piracy, as it's easier and less complicated to simply download a keygen or cracked copy.

    The whole point of pay is that it's easier. Apple understood that, it'd be a shame if Palm didn't.

    I'm going to hope that's a typo on their part and not a conscious decision... Perhaps it's one they made because Palm lacks the infrastructure and the billing backend to do it right.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    ...
    But the Pre is aimed at "the fat middle". Please see the warnings in Sprints service guide about not selling the Pre to "serious" business users. (those with real IT requirements)
    Except that is not what the document stated.
  15. #35  
    Some of the people who would be purchasing the DataViz app for around $70 purchased the "mother ship" suite for around $450. DataViz has been in business for a while. I really think they probably know their market pretty well...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerdtalker View Post
    It's stuff like that which drives people to piracy, as it's easier and less complicated to simply download a keygen or cracked copy.
    Well, now, I agree that an integrated app store can be nice, but the only thing that "drives people to piracy" is dishonesty and a desire for the unearned. The fact that piracy is "easier" than buying software is irrelevant, and in many (most) cases simply untrue. Searching for a crack or a serial, then downloading it, then scanning for viruses and/or trojans, then running cracks/keygens, etc., etc., isn't easier than buying software from somewhere like Handango or even searching for it on the Web. It's just cheaper.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  17. jtlapp's Avatar
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    #37  
    Wait, if purchasing an app takes you to a site's standard purchase page, we should be able to find Pre versions of apps available on some of these web sites now, or soon. If something Palm-specific is going on, there'd be no sign of the Pre version of the apps without being directed from the App Catalog. Just guessing.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    The fact that piracy is "easier" than buying software is irrelevant, and in many (most) cases simply untrue. Searching for a crack or a serial, then downloading it, then scanning for viruses and/or trojans, then running cracks/keygens, etc., etc., isn't easier than buying software from somewhere like Handango or even searching for it on the Web. It's just cheaper.
    I honestly don't think debating the ethics of piracy is in the context of the discussion here, however, in many cases having something which just works instead of something which requires activation, contacting the software developer when you change devices (because it no longer matches the device, I mean, god forbid you break phones and have to get it replaced), and other nightmares often makes it easier.

    Don't forget that DRM is the number one reason why people pirate. Often it's easier to manage that media than media you've paid for, because you can *gasp* actually use it!
  19. #39  
    Sorry but everyone that is saying "This is a good thing" is 100% wrong, your kinda like me in a sense, but lacking some reality. The reality I'm talking about is this.. The Pre is meant to be a SYNERGY device.. the least of complications, the better.. How is this synergy?

    Also, to solve almost all the "complaints" of Apples App store, Palm can offer a link to developers pages so they can have direct customer support from them, it isn't as cut and dry as many of you think.

    I have a feeling, hopefully, this is just a unique download situation. Meaning that hopefully most apps, will be central. If not, Palm did drop the ball here.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by tntsniper View Post
    The Pre is meant to be a SYNERGY device.. the least of complications, the better.. How is this synergy?
    Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm surprised at this decision on the part of Palm.

    Here's to hoping they fix it or there's some mitigating factor which we'll understand when we finally have one to toy around with. I'm not jumping to any conclusions too soon
    Palm III -> Visor Prism -> Dell Axim X30 Hi -> HTC Apache -> HTC Mogul -> HTC Touch Pro

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