Clock Sync - For all those who have problems with time drifting

jocsch · 04:03 AM

Hi,
starting from today "Clock Sync" is available for free in the app catalog.
It removes another major pain point for many (especially european) users as it regularily syncs a device with the standard time from the internet.

It is not using ntp which is not available for regular applications, but instead it retrieves the time from a webserver that is itself using ntp. The received time should be fairly accurate (~ 2 sec).

And the best: Clock Sync can sync regularily in the background and keep a device always in sync with the standard time.

Update Version 1.1:
I added some monitoring capabilities. There is a history in which every sync is written and a monitoring mode which just writes the statistic but does not actually sync the device. Use this if you are not sure if the timing issues are resolved for you with the 1.4 webos upgrade.

Update Version 1.2:
Scheduling was added. If you want your phone to sync at a specific time during a day, you no longer need to do some math when using the periodic sync. Instead you can schedule it directly using the new "Fixed time" sync mode.

I would be happy to receive some feedback!

Regards,
Markus

alex3683 · 02/22/2010, 11:48 AM

Thanks! I started using it right now. So I cannot give you much feedback but from what it promises it seems to be great. Perhaps I'll give you some more feedback later this week.

To improve accuracy a bit you could try to measure the roundtrip time and use it in the time calculation.

ldj · 02/22/2010, 12:04 PM

Out of interest, what API did you use to set the clock? I didn't think there was support for this in the SDK?

alex3683 · 02/22/2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldj

Out of interest, what API did you use to set the clock? I didn't think there was support for this in the SDK?

From what he said I assume he uses a simple ajax call to a webserver sending back its time set via NTP. Thereby the time on the pre should be as accurate as NTP + network latency can be.

ldj · 02/22/2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex3683

From what he said I assume he uses a simple ajax call to a webserver sending back its time set via NTP. Thereby the time on the pre should be as accurate as NTP + network latency can be.

Yep, but I didn't think there were any officially supported API's for setting the time on the device, and thus how such functionality could get in the app catalog?!?

vara411 · 02/22/2010, 12:53 PM

Well done!!! If this works as desired, you'll be a hero for many folks!

alex3683 · 02/22/2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldj

Yep, but I didn't think there were any officially supported API's for setting the time on the device, and thus how such functionality could get in the app catalog?!?

Good point

Let's wait what he has to tell us about that.

RUSH · 02/22/2010, 01:05 PM

I don't have a problem with mine,if i do i'll be happy to use that app.

dallashigh · 02/22/2010, 09:16 PM

Apparently there is an API for setting the time. It's there in app/models/backend.js if you want to take a look at it. The idea is actually quite clever.

jocsch · 02/23/2010, 02:11 AM

Hi,

Quote:

Out of interest, what API did you use to set the clock? I didn't think there was support for this in the SDK?

I am not sure if the API (setSystemTime on SystemService) is not supported. It is "not documented". But nobody blocks you from using it. I had my doubts if Palm accepts this app in the catalog as somewhere they state, that "not documented" APis shouldn't be used. But maybe Palm saw the struggles that a lot of people have with the clock. I am still hoping that they fix it with 1.4 natively.

Quote:

From what he said I assume he uses a simple ajax call to a webserver sending back its time set via NTP. Thereby the time on the pre should be as accurate as NTP + network latency can be.

Yep. That's how it works. If you have features that you like to see implemented, please post them.

Regards,
Markus

jocsch · 02/23/2010, 03:49 AM

Quote:

To improve accuracy a bit you could try to measure the roundtrip time and use it in the time calculation.

I thought about it. But it would at least double the number of requests send out to the webserver and even then it would just be an estimate.

And as normally the response is pretty fast (connection is established etc), the gain would be marginal.

Maybe I get to that topic again but there are some other features I want to tackle first.

alex3683 · 02/24/2010, 01:22 AM

One thing you could add for me is the option to disable notifications. I'm a person that doesn't want to be notified if something works and sometimes even not actively if it doesn't ;-)
So an internal logging mechanism showing the result (success / failure, time difference that was measured and corrected, etc.) of the last 10 sync attempts or so and the option to disable the banner notification would be nice for me.

jocsch · 02/24/2010, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex3683

One thing you could add for me is the option to disable notifications. I'm a person that doesn't want to be notified if something works and sometimes even not actively if it doesn't ;-)
So an internal logging mechanism showing the result (success / failure, time difference that was measured and corrected, etc.) of the last 10 sync attempts or so and the option to disable the banner notification would be nice for me.

Looks like the app needs an "Advanced configuration" screen. I'll takle that in a future update.

mscemt · 02/28/2010, 02:25 AM

From what I can tell the newest update fixed the clock drift problems, I'm currious if anyone is still having the issue. I disabled periodic sync and have had accurate time for about 18 hours so far.

alex3683 · 02/28/2010, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscemt

From what I can tell the newest update fixed the clock drift problems, I'm currious if anyone is still having the issue. I disabled periodic sync and have had accurate time for about 18 hours so far.

same for me.

ldj · 02/28/2010, 04:08 AM

Yep, early days but signs are good thus far...

alex3683 · 02/28/2010, 04:32 AM

so nevertheless many thanks for your efforts and the time this app served us well :-)

jocsch · 02/28/2010, 04:42 AM

Glad to hear. I just have 1.4 for 4 hours now, so I can't judge on this. Nevertheless I am glad that Palm fixed it finally and we can proudly say, that our phone keeps the time on its own ;-)

For me it was more a learning exercise in webos development. That's why the source code is available as well. Now it might serve as an example project for other webos development beginners: jocsch's ClockSync at master - GitHub

I will release an updated version (once the app submission page is working for me again), that includes some logging capabilities to monitor whether the deivce is on time. That's just for the curious and to give the app a reason to stay on the app catalog ;-)

jocsch · 03/02/2010, 02:13 AM

I have added a monitoring mode to Clock Sync and run it for the last 30hrs.
The clock issue is definitely resolved by Palm. I had 3-4 exceptions where the clock was off by ~55sec. All the other times it was sharp on time.

one · 07:20 AM

Hi, I live in Germany (provider vodafone over debitel) and I have the pre since some weeks.
The first OS I had was WebOS 1.3.5.2 it was "seldom able to get the network time" (waiting for network time ....) and it was drifting ca. 5 min per week.

Since Saturday I have the 1.4.0. It is still seldom able to get network time (airplane on/off works (mostly) but even if I do not get any "waiting for network" message I do not think is pooling the NTP server anymore after the airplane on/off procedure because
NOW I have 2-4 min drift every day!
That's ridiculous!

Any ideas out there? Did really the 1.4.0 update solve your time problems?

The pre support on the telephone yesterday let me do a "delete application" procedure which helped NOTHING except let me pay huge amount of "data money" 270 euro! (I do not have data flat) to reinstall all the applications: THANKS PALM (thanks even not to have saied me that it would have redownoaded all the application and install them again!).

They suggested me to have a look if this procedure has helped and, in case not, to reset/reinstall the phone using the WebDoctor: I'm not going to do it (i was already stupid enough yesterday to trust the HotLine). The OS is linux based and a deinstall/install has never ever been a linux way of solving problems!

By the way from where does it get the network time? (provider over "tel", provider over "data channel", wireless, GPS, all of them)
Is it using "true" NTP or what?
How often does it pool?
If it drifts so much in my opinion:
1) it has a extremely bad internal clock
2) it pools the NTP server too less often / never after the airplane on/off switch!

@jocsch: Does your application work with the 1.4.0 update? I do not have data flat but I am often on a wireless net ..... Does it activate automatically the network connection in case not active or skip the pool until the next time it has network (best)?

02/22/2010, 08:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
jocsch Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 21 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 2 Posts	Clock Sync - For all those who have problems with time drifting Hi, starting from today "Clock Sync" is available for free in the app catalog. It removes another major pain point for many (especially european) users as it regularily syncs a device with the standard time from the internet. It is not using ntp which is not available for regular applications, but instead it retrieves the time from a webserver that is itself using ntp. The received time should be fairly accurate (~ 2 sec). And the best: Clock Sync can sync regularily in the background and keep a device always in sync with the standard time. Update Version 1.1: I added some monitoring capabilities. There is a history in which every sync is written and a monitoring mode which just writes the statistic but does not actually sync the device. Use this if you are not sure if the timing issues are resolved for you with the 1.4 webos upgrade. Update Version 1.2: Scheduling was added. If you want your phone to sync at a specific time during a day, you no longer need to do some math when using the periodic sync. Instead you can schedule it directly using the new "Fixed time" sync mode. I would be happy to receive some feedback! Regards, Markus Last edited by jocsch; 04/12/2010 at 04:03 AM. Reason: Update 1.2
	Liked by 2wings likes this. Thanked by 2wings, alex3683, Calvinst3in, hunland, inta, klapau, RickNeff, vara411

02/22/2010, 11:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
alex3683 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 26 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks! I started using it right now. So I cannot give you much feedback but from what it promises it seems to be great. Perhaps I'll give you some more feedback later this week. To improve accuracy a bit you could try to measure the roundtrip time and use it in the time calculation.
	Liked by

02/22/2010, 12:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
ldj Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 259 Likes Received: 2 Thanks: 3 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Out of interest, what API did you use to set the clock? I didn't think there was support for this in the SDK? __________________ Follow me on twitter \| My Website
	Liked by

02/22/2010, 12:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
vara411 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 118 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 5 Thanked 25 Times in 14 Posts	Well done!!! If this works as desired, you'll be a hero for many folks!
	Liked by

02/22/2010, 01:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
RUSH Banned Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Oceanside, California. Posts: 3,265 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 433 Thanked 967 Times in 782 Posts	I don't have a problem with mine,if i do i'll be happy to use that app.
	Liked by

02/22/2010, 09:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
dallashigh Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 674 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 105 Thanked 203 Times in 107 Posts	Apparently there is an API for setting the time. It's there in app/models/backend.js if you want to take a look at it. The idea is actually quite clever. __________________ Treo 300 > Hitachi G1000 > PPC-6700 > PPC-6800 (Mogul) > PPC-6850 (Touch Pro) > Palm Pre & ~~HTC EVO~~ Optimus V
	Liked by

02/24/2010, 01:22 AM	#12 (permalink)
alex3683 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 26 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	One thing you could add for me is the option to disable notifications. I'm a person that doesn't want to be notified if something works and sometimes even not actively if it doesn't ;-) So an internal logging mechanism showing the result (success / failure, time difference that was measured and corrected, etc.) of the last 10 sync attempts or so and the option to disable the banner notification would be nice for me.
	Liked by

02/28/2010, 02:25 AM	#14 (permalink)
mscemt Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 72 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	From what I can tell the newest update fixed the clock drift problems, I'm currious if anyone is still having the issue. I disabled periodic sync and have had accurate time for about 18 hours so far.
	Liked by

02/28/2010, 04:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
ldj Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 259 Likes Received: 2 Thanks: 3 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Yep, early days but signs are good thus far...
	Liked by

02/28/2010, 04:32 AM	#17 (permalink)
alex3683 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 26 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	so nevertheless many thanks for your efforts and the time this app served us well :-)
	Liked by

02/28/2010, 04:42 AM	#18 (permalink)
jocsch Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 21 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 2 Posts	Glad to hear. I just have 1.4 for 4 hours now, so I can't judge on this. Nevertheless I am glad that Palm fixed it finally and we can proudly say, that our phone keeps the time on its own ;-) For me it was more a learning exercise in webos development. That's why the source code is available as well. Now it might serve as an example project for other webos development beginners: jocsch's ClockSync at master - GitHub I will release an updated version (once the app submission page is working for me again), that includes some logging capabilities to monitor whether the deivce is on time. That's just for the curious and to give the app a reason to stay on the app catalog ;-)
	Liked by

03/02/2010, 02:13 AM	#19 (permalink)
jocsch Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 21 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 2 Posts	I have added a monitoring mode to Clock Sync and run it for the last 30hrs. The clock issue is definitely resolved by Palm. I had 3-4 exceptions where the clock was off by ~55sec. All the other times it was sharp on time.
	Liked by

03/16/2010, 05:37 AM	#20 (permalink)
one Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 55 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi, I live in Germany (provider vodafone over debitel) and I have the pre since some weeks. The first OS I had was WebOS 1.3.5.2 it was "seldom able to get the network time" (waiting for network time ....) and it was drifting ca. 5 min per week. Since Saturday I have the 1.4.0. It is still seldom able to get network time (airplane on/off works (mostly) but even if I do not get any "waiting for network" message I do not think is pooling the NTP server anymore after the airplane on/off procedure because NOW I have 2-4 min drift every day! That's ridiculous! Any ideas out there? Did really the 1.4.0 update solve your time problems? The pre support on the telephone yesterday let me do a "delete application" procedure which helped NOTHING except let me pay huge amount of "data money" 270 euro! (I do not have data flat) to reinstall all the applications: THANKS PALM (thanks even not to have saied me that it would have redownoaded all the application and install them again!). They suggested me to have a look if this procedure has helped and, in case not, to reset/reinstall the phone using the WebDoctor: I'm not going to do it (i was already stupid enough yesterday to trust the HotLine). The OS is linux based and a deinstall/install has never ever been a linux way of solving problems! By the way from where does it get the network time? (provider over "tel", provider over "data channel", wireless, GPS, all of them) Is it using "true" NTP or what? How often does it pool? If it drifts so much in my opinion: 1) it has a extremely bad internal clock 2) it pools the NTP server too less often / never after the airplane on/off switch! @jocsch: Does your application work with the 1.4.0 update? I do not have data flat but I am often on a wireless net ..... Does it activate automatically the network connection in case not active or skip the pool until the next time it has network (best)? Last edited by one; 03/16/2010 at 07:20 AM.
	Liked by

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