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  1. #61  
    That could work John... My pre3 is awesome about picking up various BT when BT is on the receiver.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
    If the USB port of the puck had a volt draw circuit, which once the phone lands on the puck, the circuit powers the bt receiver...

    That would be neat!
    Is there a need for a 'pre-amp' with BT Audio-out circuit?
    What methodology does TTS use anyway?
    Has anyone dismembered their T2 yet? Might be good to know how 'they' did it too.
    There's not a great deal of unused 'real estate' in side the Puck...


    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutoidi View Post
    That would be neat!
    Is there a need for a 'pre-amp' with BT Audio-out circuit?
    What methodology does TTS use anyway?
    Has anyone dismembered their T2 yet? Might be good to know how 'they' did it too.
    There's not a great deal of unused 'real estate' in side the Puck...

    Not sure how the A6 chip works, but it is a TI, not sure if TI is like they used to be but they used to have a schematic of every chip they made?

    The A6 chip seems to communicate presents to each other, which wakes up the device, they then use the Blue Tooth communication to send information to each other (device name, auto pairing, capabilities...) but if you have Blue Tooth off and swipe two A6 devices together (Veer to Pre3, or Pre3/Veer to Touchpad), they all notice and wake up each other and mention something about Bluetooth needs to be on for this function... So the A6 chips seem to sense each others presents...

    Assume that is how the TS2 works, if there is a speaker plugged in, and you put the phone on the A6 chips see each other, associate BT, and audio is now flowing through the speakers...

    However, someone stated that even if they do not place the phone on the TS2, they can still get the audio to port out, so the BT seems to always be on if something is connected to the speaker port (and power is provided to USB)...

    Unless you get the schematic from TI, we can't sense each other, the next best thing is to turn on the BT receiver, which once paired, they seem to auto pair (as long as that is set on the phone), when you put the phone on a puck... I have never designed a volt draw circuit but I know it can be created...
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
    Not sure how the A6 chip works, but it is a TI, not sure if TI is like they used to be but they used to have a schematic of every chip they made?

    The A6 chip seems to communicate presents to each other, which wakes up the device, they then use the Blue Tooth communication to send information to each other (device name, auto pairing, capabilities...) but if you have Blue Tooth off and swipe two A6 devices together (Veer to Pre3, or Pre3/Veer to Touchpad), they all notice and wake up each other and mention something about Bluetooth needs to be on for this function... So the A6 chips seem to sense each others presents...

    Assume that is how the TS2 works, if there is a speaker plugged in, and you put the phone on the A6 chips see each other, associate BT, and audio is now flowing through the speakers...

    However, someone stated that even if they do not place the phone on the TS2, they can still get the audio to port out, so the BT seems to always be on if something is connected to the speaker port (and power is provided to USB)...

    Unless you get the schematic from TI, we can't sense each other, the next best thing is to turn on the BT receiver, which once paired, they seem to auto pair (as long as that is set on the phone), when you put the phone on a puck... I have never designed a volt draw circuit but I know it can be created...
    Right John.. so the same A6 exists in Pre3/Veer/TPs and T2 you reckon.
    So what exactly does the 'waking'? It's close proximity, so transmitter coil//magnetic field sensing?
    That in turn enables BT demand.
    BT then carries Audio signal.

    I think they were saying that once the T2 BT was activated, phone could then be removed and it would continue playing as long as it stayed within BT range and T2 audi jack-in remained acting as T2 BT continuity switch.

    I imagine that measuring the (puck coil) bridge impedance across one (or two) resistors (as in the TP charge sensing circuit), would give a 'power on' switch - through a transistor perhaps? Presumably all -->5VDC.

    Or actually reverse-engineer a T2 even?


    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  5. #65  
    Hummm... So... maybe is possible change the original Touchstone in an Bluetooth enabler as TS2...??


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Hummm... So... maybe is possible change the original Touchstone in an Bluetooth enabler as TS2...??


    Best Regards...

    I guess it may - but space in there is limited.
    Probably the shortest route is to find out exactly what lives inside a T2 first anyway and then asses it's 'mutability'!

    It may therefore then mean building a suitable unit that also houses and includes the Palm 'puck' inductive charge system but is also large enough to accomodate the extra BT circuitry and jacks etc?

    Any existing T2 owners brave enough to thoroughly explore and document inside their T2 thingy here?

    Last edited by Mutoidi; 04/19/2013 at 03:52 PM.

    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutoidi View Post
    Right John.. so the same A6 exists in Pre3/Veer/TPs and T2 you reckon.
    So what exactly does the 'waking'? It's close proximity, so transmitter coil//magnetic field sensing?
    That in turn enables BT demand.
    BT then carries Audio signal.

    I think they were saying that once the T2 BT was activated, phone could then be removed and it would continue playing as long as it stayed within BT range and T2 audi jack-in remained acting as T2 BT continuity switch.

    I imagine that measuring the (puck coil) bridge impedance across one (or two) resistors (as in the TP charge sensing circuit), would give a 'power on' switch - through a transistor perhaps? Presumably all -->5VDC.

    Or actually reverse-engineer a T2 even?

    I suspect that TTS coil exists in the Touchstone 2, and that indicates to the Pre3 that it should connect over Bluetooth, like NFC.

    If someone could run ls-monitor while they set a Pre3 down onto a Touchstone, that will tell us a bit about what is going on.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    I suspect that TTS coil exists in the Touchstone 2, and that indicates to the Pre3 that it should connect over Bluetooth, like NFC.

    If someone could run ls-monitor while they set a Pre3 down onto a Touchstone, that will tell us a bit about what is going on.
    Yes.. I'm beginning to think that too. It could be a two way indication. (I recently noticed that not only is the BT command so, but also the instant exchange of URL twixt both Pre3 & TP Browsers.

    I am still unclear what the actual power rating/specs of the T2 Audio output are.
    Also, will phone Volume Control transfer through T2 output? Or is this all done externally via amps etc?
    Will the T2 directly power ear-buds for instance?

    Good thinking re. the monitor - hopefully someone here can/will do it!

    Last edited by Mutoidi; 04/20/2013 at 01:22 AM.

    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  9. #69  
    There ya go, john. How much to build a prototype?

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  10. #70  
    Oh, there'd still be one thing missing, since well likely never get a6s or their software -- automatic identification of the touchstone in use, like the touchpad do. So you'd still be missing the only partially implemented support for music player as a exhibition app that would come up automatically on that specific touchstone. Maybe one could pirate the touchpad touchstone to do that, I think someone once reported that they could get touchpad touchstones to identify

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    There ya go, john. How much to build a prototype?

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities

    Well it won't be $420 anyway!
    Also let's see what tech feedback comes from any existing T2 hardware owners..

    Last edited by Mutoidi; 04/20/2013 at 08:59 AM.

    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    Oh, there'd still be one thing missing, since well likely never get a6s or their software -- automatic identification of the touchstone in use, like the touchpad do. So you'd still be missing the only partially implemented support for music player as a exhibition app that would come up automatically on that specific touchstone. Maybe one could pirate the touchpad touchstone to do that, I think someone once reported that they could get touchpad touchstones to identify

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    OK.. or is it possible to read and 'clone' the T2 software?
    Last edited by Mutoidi; 04/20/2013 at 10:34 AM.

    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  13. #73  
    We would need the TI chip, if one could identify the chip and see if they could get it from TI?

    Then one could get the firmware for the TI chip, it is on the Veer (webOS 2.2.4), Pre3 (webOS 2.2.4), and Touchpad (webOS 3.0.5), assume we could try each a6 firmware modules file until we figure out which one works best...

    Assuming one could flash a firmware file onto the chip in the first place (like one can for the cypress Touch Panel chips)...

    These are all assumptions as I do not have a TS2 nor a TI "A6" chip to play with, nor the schematics for the chip's design..

    I read somewhere that they (HP/PALM) had a really cool way of updating the firmware of the TS2 (sounded like plugging into a USB port of a computer and running a Java firmware updater, like the doctors for the device)...

    I have never plugged my touchpad touchstone into my computer, not sure if anything it would provide but I will try now...

    So it shows up under Other Devices as a TouchStone Programmer...

    Then once device drivers are associated it shows up under Human Interface Devices, there is a parent device TPDIGIMN which shows up under the Human Interface Devices as a HID Compliant Device...

    As secondary device to the parent, a USB Input Device under details it's bus reported device description is TouchStone Programmer...

    So to me this verifies the programming ability at least under Windows for the TouchStone for the Touchpad, assume the TS2 would be the same...

    Plugged in the Puck Touchstone into a Windows box, it does not do anything (computer does notice a power draw on the bus), but does not see a device.
    Last edited by John Steffes; 04/20/2013 at 09:40 AM.
  14. #74  
    That is certainly very interesting John - and possibly excellent!
    'TouchStone Programmer' - now I like the sound of that already!
    I get the same results in XP on PC.

    'Doctoring' one's Touchstone adds a new facet to things webOS around here doesn't it!

    This being a potential TS2 owners thread, perhaps an 'owner' can now actually dare to peep inside their hallowed unit (with a camera?) and report back? That'd be interesting too!

    Last edited by Mutoidi; 04/20/2013 at 02:03 PM.

    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutoidi View Post
    perhaps an 'owner' can now actually dare to peep inside their hallowed unit (with a camera?) and report back?
    Macro mode, steady cam with any visible part numbers, plzkthx.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by ananimus View Post
    Macro mode, steady cam with any visible part numbers, plzkthx.
    Yes.. Plz!

    And once the unit is opened, rattle of at least 20 shots under different lighting conditions (bright white LED is digitally 'good' - poke your Pre3 'flashlight' in there!) and one of them may be the in-focus winner!


    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  17. thg
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    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutoidi View Post
    So what exactly does the 'waking'? It's close proximity, so transmitter coil//magnetic field sensing?
    if BT is disabled and you put the T3 on the TS2, webOS ask you to enable BT, at least if the Pre3 was paired to the TS2 (shown as "TouchStone2 Audio Dock") before, it then will establish a connection via BT.

    I think they were saying that once the T2 BT was activated, phone could then be removed and it would continue playing as long as it stayed within BT range and T2 audi jack-in remained acting as T2 BT continuity switch.
    I can confirm this, if the Pre3 was paired with the TS2 once, the TS2 acts like any other BT-headset, just enable BT on your Pre3, it will pair with the TS2 and plays music when connected via BT.

    Or actually reverse-engineer a T2 even?
    Well, it seems not to be easy to open the TS2 without damaging it, so I will not try it!

    BTW:
    The Pre2 also is able o use the TS2 as BT audio-device, for sure it does not recognize if you put the Pre2 on the TS2 and asking you to enable BT. And the TS2 can handle (at least) two different devices, one at a time only, so if one is connected the other can not connect until you disable the first one.
    OldSkoolVWLover and Rnp like this.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by thg View Post
    if BT is disabled and you put the T3 on the TS2, webOS ask you to enable BT, at least if the Pre3 was paired to the TS2 (shown as "TouchStone2 Audio Dock") before, it then will establish a connection via BT.

    I can confirm this, if the Pre3 was paired with the TS2 once, the TS2 acts like any other BT-headset, just enable BT on your Pre3, it will pair with the TS2 and plays music when connected via BT.

    Well, it seems not to be easy to open the TS2 without damaging it, so I will not try it!

    BTW:
    The Pre2 also is able o use the TS2 as BT audio-device, for sure it does not recognize if you put the Pre2 on the TS2 and asking you to enable BT. And the TS2 can handle (at least) two different devices, one at a time only, so if one is connected the other can not connect until you disable the first one.
    So initially via TTS coil? Then BT.

    Any controls operable from the phone whilst BT connected to TS2?
    Volume?

    Maybe access is initially via base pad? (pics)
    No.. don't damage it!!!

    So no TTS in Pre2. Suspect TS2 can handle --> x 4 devices, individually - yes.

    Attached Images Attached Images

    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
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  19. thg
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    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by thg View Post
    Well, it seems not to be easy to open the TS2 without damaging it, so I will not try it!
    OK, luckly (for you) I was proven wrong.

    If you want to try it, begin with the upper clips and pull out the plastic thing with care. As you see there are some more of these clips at the bottom.

    At the bottom of the TS2 itself are no screws at all, but if you remove the top plastic of the TS2 (where you put the Pre on), you should find 4 screws to remove the coil. Through this whole you can remove the three screws that fix the board in the TS2. I will not try this, because I'm not sure how to remove this plastic on the top, I think it is clipped in too.

    As you can see, there are 2x 2-wires connecting to the TS-coil and there is this transparent plastic thing that looks like a variable resistor. But it is not a resistor, it only has two contacts on the right side and some metal on the top, may be it's an antenna.

    Have fun,
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    Last edited by thg; 04/20/2013 at 06:48 PM.
  20. thg
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutoidi View Post
    Any controls operable from the phone whilst BT connected to TS2?
    Volume?
    yes works, at least with the Pre3

    Maybe access is initially via base pad? (pics)
    No.. don't damage it!!!
    Yes, works :-)

    The TS2 still operates as is should, just one of the bottom clips does not fit good anymore, so it does not close 100%. But I think it was worth doing it.

    So no TTS in Pre2. Suspect TS2 can handle --> x 4 devices, individually - yes.
    Good to know, so I could connect my Veer and TP Go too :-D
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