Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 81
  1. #61  
    Hi all,

    First, can someone tell me why everyone is using a Centro battery in a Pre, what are you gaining by doing that? This is the first that I've read about this in the past few days and I've had my Pre since the beginning and have been on PreCentral for longer than that.

    Second, as a suggestion, I have the Naztech Energy Cell (Naztech Technologies) which is a holster and charger in one. When you have the Pre in the holster (and you can use your Pre while in the holster as long as you don't need the physical keyboard, otherwise you have to remove it from the holster) the Pre is being charged and kept at 100%. It does use it's own special back cover.

    As I've mentioned in the Naztech thread, we have managed to modify a Touchstone backcover to incorporate the Naztech contact points so you can still use your Touchstone and the Naztech. Example, while your out, you use the Naztech, when you come home you take the Pre out of the holster and place it on the Touchstone.

    Hope this suggestion is interesting to others and I also get a reason for the Centro battery.

    Thanks!

    Rob
    Robert L
    Astoria Queens, N.Y.C
    - Palm Pre (Sprint) - formally Palm Treo 650
    Version 1.4.1.1
    Sprint Configuration 2.3
    Model: P100EWW
    Hardware Version: A
    Firmware: CC1.4(510)

  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Using a 1350 mAh Centro battery in my Pre+
    The stock Centro battery is 1150 mAh, same as the Pre. Are you using a 3rd party 1350 battery?
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post
    First, can someone tell me why everyone is using a Centro battery in a Pre, what are you gaining by doing that?
    Well, the subject first came up when the Pre was released and the poor battery life noted. Many people used to have a Centro or a Treo 800w and wanted to use their old batteries as spares for the Pre instead of having to purchase a new battery.
  4. #64  
    Actually, the reason is simple: the Pre battery is rated at 1150 mAh. So is the Centro's oridinal battery, so:

    1. Many would like a cheap replacement backup to carry around .. the original Centro battery is way cheaper than the Pre's battery;

    2. For the price of $12 on eBay, I bought a "chinese made" Centro battery replacement rated at 1350 mAh... that's way cheaper than the Pre alternative.. more battery life, cheaper price.. done deal!

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Bah you are all gonna make me bust out my meters this weekend now, and my centro batteries are buried somewhere in a drawer
    heeheehee....that's what I was just thinking
  6. #66  
    What an interesting discussion. I've designed Lion battery charging circuitry. There are two types of battery, one type has battery management circuitry built in, along with a thermistor and a one-shot fuse.
    The second type (usually internal not replaceable) has only a one-shot thermal fuse on the body of the battery. The rest of the circuitry is contained inside the device housing the battery-much cheaper that way.

    Not knowing anything about the Pre battery or the Centro battery I can't definitively say what their internals are but since they are replaceable they most likely contain charge management circuitry (much like the little IC found in the Centro battery by the earlier poster).

    If the battery takes more than one charge and the phone and battery continue to work, I would say that there is a fair chance the two batteries are quite similar, and contrary to some of the posts above, the terminals are alike as they both charge in the phone and don't overcharge (An overcharged Lion battery swells and gets quite hot and could possibly explode) so I would say that the batteries are at the very least equal and are both useful in the Pre device, and their battery management circuitry is the same.

    Also, a few posts above someone metioned 4 Volts DC not being a problem, but as another poster pointed out, 4 V DC at unlimited current (short) is quite a bit of energy and could cause anything in it's path to burn (open). The battery has several devices to prevent this but if the short is internal to the battery then all bets are off.

    Just found this thread so that's my 0.02.

    The only way to find out if the two batteries are the same is to either get the data sheet from the manufacturer, or to dissassemble them and have an expert analyze them.
  7. #67  
    The only way to find out if the two batteries are the same is to either get the data sheet from the manufacturer, or to dissassemble them and have an expert analyze them.[/QUOTE]

    Already did this.

    I use to work with charging systems at US Power Management In LA worked in the mobile department we designed and built charging systems for small lithium ion battery's also for nickle metal hydride.

    It was my job to test the charging and so on.

    some really neat stuff and yes we had some fires and battery's blowing up from time to time.

    The Pre And Centro battery's are the same. both same chip with the same numbers on it also has the same firmware. I took one of each apart. tested tested and tested.
  8.    #68  
    I'm not intentionally stirring the pot, but I did want to address the question I've seen several times about why no one has contacted Palm for a definitive answer. Here's why:

    3:24 PM Checking configuration...
    3:24 PM Connecting...
    3:24 PM Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.
    3:25 PM Support session established with Stewart.

    3:25 PM Stewart: Hello Mary. Thank you for contacting Palm Technical Support. My name is Stewart.
    3:25 PM Mary K: Hi.
    3:26 PM Mary K: Have you already received my question or do I need to send it again?
    3:27 PM Stewart: I understand that you wish to know the specifications of the Centro battery and Pre battery.
    3:27 PM Stewart: Am I correct?
    3:27 PM Mary K: Yes. Please.
    3:27 PM Mary K: I would like to know specifically how they are different.
    3:28 PM Stewart: Can I have 3 minutes please?
    3:28 PM Mary K: Absolutely.
    3:30 PM Stewart: Thank you for staying online.
    3:31 PM Mary K: Sure. We have a raging debate going on at one of the Palm Pre boards, and we would love to see this settled once and for all.
    3:31 PM Mary K: Here's a link: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...fferences.html
    3:31 PM Stewart: Centro: Removable 1150mAh, lithium-ion
    Up to 3.5 hours talk time, or up to 300 hours standby time
    3:31 PM Stewart: Pre: 1150mAh Lithium Ion removable battery
    Up to 5.5 hours talk time
    Up to 350 Hours of Standby Time
    3:31 PM Mary K: So are they the same battery or not?
    3:32 PM Mary K: We have tested the output in MilliAmps and gotten two different readings from the two batteries, while others say they have gotten identical readings.
    3:33 PM Mary K: All we get from Palm is that you don't recommend using a Centro battery in a Pre, but no one tells us why.
    3:35 PM Mary K: Stewart, are you still there?
    3:36 PM Stewart: Yes. I am with you.
    3:36 PM Stewart: I am sorry for the delay.
    3:36 PM Mary K: k.
    3:38 PM Stewart: Well, we can use the same battery's in both the devices as the specifications are same.
    3:38 PM Stewart: But we suggest not to use another battery in Pre or no matter what the device as.
    3:38 PM Stewart: And we do not support if it harms the device in any case.
    3:38 PM Mary K: Then why does Palm say not to use Centro batteries in the Pre if the specifications are the same?
    3:39 PM Mary K: 1150 mAh in each, right? Do they discharge at different rates or something?
    3:40 PM Stewart: Well, you can use the battery according to your requirements as the specifications are same but we do not suggest and support if it harms the device by any means.
    3:41 PM Mary K: Are you saying that using the Centro battery will void my warranty?
    3:42 PM Mary K: but it's safe to do anyway because the batteries are the same?
    3:44 PM Stewart: Please check the link given below where in we suggest the battery to be used in Pre though the specifications are same as of the other battery.

    3:44 PM Stewart has sent a link: Palm Support : Replace the battery on a Pre

    3:45 PM Stewart: A Palm® Centro™ Standard battery is designed solely for use with the Centro phone and is not compatible with Palm® webOS™ phones, even though it may appear to fit into the battery compartment. Customer must use Palm batteries only in the devices for which they were specifically designed
    3:45 PM Mary K: I have seen this page before, but it doesn't say WHY.
    3:46 PM Mary K: Can you please tell me WHY they are not compatible? Many people believe that this is just a marketing ploy by Palm to sell more batteries, and the more I question, the more I begin to suspect that they may be right.
    3:47 PM Mary K: BTW, this is about the place in the last chat session conversation that I had with a support representative and found myself mysteriously disconnected.
    3:49 PM Stewart: Well every device is made with an design of specific Battery which is tested by Palm engineers which works correctly.
    3:49 PM Mary K: Will using a Centro battery in a Pre void my warranty?
    3:49 PM Stewart: Sure
    3:49 PM Stewart: That is a reason we do not suggest you to use other devices battery.
    3:50 PM Mary K: Can you tell me HOW the Centro battery might harm my Pre?
    3:50 PM Stewart: To know complete information about it you can contact our Voice Support team.
    3:50 PM Stewart: I will provide you information about them.
    3:51 PM Mary K: So you don't have access to a data sheet for each battery?
    3:53 PM Stewart: No, It is maintained by Palm engineers.
    3:53 PM Mary K: To settle the debate, I really need something in writing. Different people have been told different things by various reps.
    3:54 PM Mary K: Whom do I contact then that can actually settle this?
    3:55 PM Stewart: Let me transfer you to my supervisor.
    3:55 PM Mary K: Thank you.

    3:55 PM Transferring session to another technician...
    3:55 PM Support session established with Samuel.

    3:55 PM Samuel: Hello Mary K, I am the supervisor.
    3:56 PM Mary K: Hi! Do I start over from the beginning?
    3:56 PM Samuel: Give me 2 minutes while I review the chat session.
    3:56 PM Mary K: Sure. It's worth that not to have to type it all again.
    3:57 PM Samuel: Thank you for staying on hold.
    3:57 PM Mary K: Sure.
    3:58 PM Samuel: Centro batteries are not tested on pre devices. So, Palm does not receommend using the Centro batteries on Pre device though they have the smilar specifuications.
    3:58 PM Mary K: Okay, but you said "similar'. How are they different?
    3:59 PM Samuel: Yes, they are similar in dimensions. We do not have the information on how exactly they differ.
    3:59 PM Mary K: So you can't tell me if the chips are different, if they discharge at different rates, or anything?
    4:00 PM Mary K: Who can tell me?
    4:01 PM Samuel: Yes, the internal specifications are not available with us.
    4:01 PM Mary K: We have many, many people on our forum who are using Centro batteries, and until we are given something specific in writing, they will continue to do so. If it does harm their WebOS device, then they will definintely try to turn it in under warranty, and some will be successful. This is going to cost both Palm AND the consumers. I would like to see that not happen.
    4:01 PM Samuel: You can contact voice team.
    4:01 PM Samuel: You can contact our Phone Voice Support team at: 877-426-3777. Support is available Mon-Fri from 6:00 AM PST to 8:00 PM PST and Sat-Sun from 8:00 AM PST to 5:00 PM PST.
    4:01 PM Mary K: And they have access to this information>
    4:03 PM Samuel: We dio not have the information whether they have the requisite information.
    4:03 PM Mary K: Okay. I may be off on another wild goose chase then. Well, thank you for your time.
    4:04 PM Samuel: Here’s the reference number for our chat: Chat session ID number 61434291. Keep this number as a record of this chat, and if you need to call our Voice Support team or contact us again for this same issue, please refer to this number.

    I saved screen shots, but I really didn't think anyone was worried enough about that to need them.
    I wish I still had my Pre Plus. I miss it.
  9. #69  
    I found this and it may be of interest- it seems to imply that the battery is exactly the same. Both the battery from the centro and the pre have the mh29634 on them. I searched for this designation. Apparently it is the recognized component mark.
    It lists both the model # of the centro (157-10079-00) and the pre (157-10119-00) along with a bunch of other model #s as having the same component mark.
    I believes this means that it is the same battery.
  10. #70  
    I heard about buying a Centro battery plus charger vor 16$. Are there shops that ship over to Europe for reasonable fees? There are only batteries for 11€ on eBay, without any charger...
  11. #71  
    I found a charger vor 10€. But it has only two contacts...

    PALM Centro Ladegeräte
  12.    #72  
    I posted the chat session from Palm tech support in its lame entirety concerning the differences between the two batteries, then I filled out the survey that came via email concerning my tech support experience.

    Wanna guess what I put?

    I bet you can imagine my surprise when I got a call from a Palm representative - one who had access not only to the tech sheets but also to the techs who actually know the truth.

    I got my explanation, then I asked him if there was any way that he could post that information here in an official Palm capacity as if there is a difference. Pre users need to know the facts as any difference may mean more warranty claims for Palm and for those whose phones are no longer under warranty, reduced phone life and bad rep for Pre.

    He promised that if he could not post it himself, he or another Palm rep would contact the PreCentral owner to have it posted in an official capacity that way.

    While I won't tell you everything he said (I'm tired of the well-somebody-told-ME stories), I am glad to say that he said that it was correct that the circuitry, etc. were virtually identical. Way to go for those who were on the money with that one.

    I don't know how long it may take for something official to be posted, but I'll keep looking out and do some poking if needed to get this information out to you.

    I never cared who was right - I only wanted to know what WAS right.
    Last edited by itsjustme; 07/06/2010 at 03:00 PM. Reason: found a spelling error.
  13. #73  
    How are some of you getting the firmware stored on the atmega? I tore one apart over this past holiday weekend and tried pulling the firmware out to look it over but it pulled nothing but "FF FF FF" non stop, i've only seen that when the code protection is active. which makes no sense since i've been able to pull the code from much higher priced equipment in the past. tried it with my pocket programmer and avrdude, as well as Ponyprog and my old serial programmer.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by itsjustme View Post
    I posted the chat session from Palm tech support in its lame entirety concerning the differences between the two batteries, then I filled out the survey that came via email concerning my tech support experience.

    Wanna guess what I put?

    I bet you can imagine my surprise when I got a call from a Palm representative - one who had access not only to the tech sheets but also to the techs who actually know the truth.

    I got my explanation, then I asked him if there was any way that he could post that information here in an official Palm capacity as if there is a difference. Pre users need to know the facts as any difference may mean more warranty claims for Palm and for those whose phones are no longer under warranty, reduced phone life and bad rep for Pre.

    He promised that if he could not post it himself, he or another Palm rep would contact the PreCentral owner to have it posted in an official capacity that way.

    While I won't tell you everything he said (I'm tired of the well-somebody-told-ME stories), I am glad to say that he said that it was correct that the circuitry, etc. were virtually identical. Way to go for those who were on the money with that one.

    I don't know how long it may take for something official to be posted, but I'll keep looking out and do some poking if needed to get this information out to you.

    I never cared who was right - I only wanted to know what WAS right.
    I got the same thing from palm said they were identical and that it would not damage the phone lol kind funny looks like they still have not posted anything at all about it.

    They also told me he had to tell me that they did not recommend it and then he admitted he uses them in his phone and that no pre was damaged by a centro battery that he knew of..

    He also said that some phones were damaged by Cheep Chinese eBay knock offs though...
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Binary Tech View Post
    How are some of you getting the firmware stored on the atmega? I tore one apart over this past holiday weekend and tried pulling the firmware out to look it over but it pulled nothing but "FF FF FF" non stop, i've only seen that when the code protection is active. which makes no sense since i've been able to pull the code from much higher priced equipment in the past. tried it with my pocket programmer and avrdude, as well as Ponyprog and my old serial programmer.
    I did not copy the firmware off the chip its copy protected so you can't...

    However it reports back to the charger the brand and firmware version and the specs.

    I have a Smart charger i use for my RC helis and cars some are lithium ion and nickle metal hydride All the lithium ion battery's i have ever used have had a controller in side.

    The charger talks to the chip inside the battery before the charger even tries to charge the packs it tries to identify the battery it reported back it was a Palm battery with firmware version 1.0 it reported the voltage back 3.7 volts @ 1150maH had a voltage cut off at 2.5 volts and a charge rate of 22 charge pulses per minute for charging.

    Here is a pic of my charger tester and balanced for advanced battery management.Attachment 48840
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by gitit20; 07/11/2010 at 06:03 AM.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by gitit20 View Post
    kind funny looks like they still have not posted anything at all about it.
    In my opinion, Palm will never (officially) post anything here or in any other public forum saying the batteries are the same. They spent too much time and effort denying it for the past year.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    In my opinion, Palm will never (officially) post anything here or in any other public forum saying the batteries are the same. They spent too much time and effort denying it for the past year.
    ya i agree
  18.    #78  
    Palm isn't going to say that they are the same because they aren't.

    The rep I talked to actually spoke with who he called "the tech guys", and came back and said that yes, they are different, but you'd never know it from reading the spec sheets on the two batteries. He said that the batteries were opposites in terms of positive and negative, and he said that the effects of reverse polarity would indeed damage the phone - it would just happen slowly over time.

    I asked him to *please* either post it here or contact the folks at PreCentral and ask them to post it. I mean, geez, I can say anything I want, just like anybody else. I figured that it would mean something more coming from Palm.

    Know what? HE DID IT, he called, but nothing ever appeared here. I emailed using the news tip link to ask why, and this is what I got back from Dieter:

    Hey Mary -

    Kind of crazy he said that it was "reversed polarity." We do know that the Centro battery can work in the Pre or Pixi, but it's not recommended because of subtle differences and heat issues.

    - Dieter

    On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:32 PM, PreCentral.net <shutterbug@domainomitted.com> wrote:
    > Mary (itsjustme) sent a message using the contact form at
    > http://www.precentral.net/contact.
    >
    > Yesterday I got a call from a Palm rep named Tony in response to a
    > customer satisfaction survey that I had completed.
    > The long and the short of it was that Tony first pulled the specs on
    > Centro and Pre batteries and did not find a difference. When I
    > explained to him the readings that we had taken between the two, he
    > put me on hold and questioned one of the tech guys - the only ones who would really know about that.
    > He came back and said that he had been mistaken - there *was* a
    > critical difference between the two (reversed polarity), and he told
    > me that if he wasn't able to post the details in an official Palm
    > capacity, then he would contact the guy who owns this site and provide
    > the details & warning. (He also said that he'd give me credit - LOL)
    > This was yesterday evening, and I've waited allllll day to see this
    > hit your site - how cool would it be to be the ONLY site on the 'Net
    > with an official, credible explanation of why instead of vague recommendations?!
    > Have you heard anything yet? If not, let me know - he left a number with me.
    > Said he's the only guy named Tony who works there.
    > Update me if you can, 'kay?
    > Thanks!
    > Mary
    >
    >

    *sigh*

    I've done all that I can do, really. While it really bothers me that some folks are slowly damaging their phones, there is absolutely nothing more that I know to do.

    It's entirely possible that it's a non-issue for most folks if they upgrade often enough, anyway.
    I wish I still had my Pre Plus. I miss it.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by itsjustme View Post

    The rep I talked to actually spoke with who he called "the tech guys", and came back and said that yes, they are different, but you'd never know it from reading the spec sheets on the two batteries. He said that the batteries were opposites in terms of positive and negative, and he said that the effects of reverse polarity would indeed damage the phone - it would just happen slowly over time.
    Sorry but you aren't making any sense. First you say the batteries are different but you'd never know it from the spec sheets. Then you say the batteries are opposite in terms of positive and negative. That's a pretty huge difference that would jump out at anyone reading the spec sheet!

    If that were the case, the 2 batteries wouldn't be interchangeable PERIOD. Try this simple test, take the batteries in your TV remote and install them backwards so that the polarities are reversed. Does your remote still work? No, no way, no how.

    I'm not sure if you misunderstood what they were saying or if they don't know what they are talking about but this latest explanation is nonsense.

    That said, I'm done here, no offense to anyone but I have my own answers that I'm satisfied with.
  20. #80  
    I agree. This has deteriorated into nonsense. It is obvious the tech guy you talked to first on the phone was correct when he said they were the same. When the Palm guy you talked to proposed posting this info officially, he got slapped upside his head by someone who pointed out it would cost Palm sales revenue. The remote control test mention dramatically demonstrates how foolish you should feel if you accept a "reverse polarity" explanation. Stop the BASELESS fearmongering!! It is irresponsible to play on people's fears like that.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions