View Poll Results: Result of Back cover mod described here

Voters
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  • Great, works as a charm. Finally!

    38 69.09%
  • Seems to work, but not sure yet!

    11 20.00%
  • No Improvement at all!

    4 7.27%
  • This mod sucks, Back to the drawingboard!

    2 3.64%
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  1.    #1  
    Author Requests Sticky!!!!!

    There are tons of Touch Stone / Palm Pre's which have the cycling issue. About 10 Touch stones passed my service desk with this issue, and i finally puzlled it out (sort of).

    First, if you have the cycling issue, <Bin-Bong> every 10 seconds, at various charge levels, or, your pre charges, but if it reached 100%, it discharges while sitting on the Touch stone, then read this. My investigation can help you.

    I investigated this issue by comparing touch stones / back covers / adaptors / USB cables. I've seen tons of them, and about 40% has the cycling issue.

    During this investigation i discovered some things i wanted to share, and also i found a possible solution to stop the cycling issue.

    Facts:
    -The Touch Stone is designed to be fed by an adaptor capable of delivering 5V @ 1A with the 2 data pins shorted. Thus, the touch stone wil NOT work on Chinese USB chargers, nor your computers USB port.

    -The original Palm Adaptor is your best bet. The adaptor which cames with the Treo Pro will do the job also.

    -The original Palm USB Cable is also your best choice, however this cable is just a standard USB - Micro USB cable. Nothing more.

    -The touch stone works very well with the original Palm USB Car charger.

    Now back to the <Bing-Bong> cycling issue.

    During my investigation of the cause of the <Bing-Bong> cycling issue, if discovered 2 flaws in the back cover of the Pre.

    The technique, and the way this charging method works, asks for a very strict design, of all components involved. It is a combination of facts causing the <Bing-Bong> cycling issue, and here we going to address it.

    Refer to the pictures in his post. 10 in this post, and the rest in the second post.

    1-Test if your <Bing-Bong> cycling issue dissapears if you put a business card between the touch stone, and the pre. If so: continue to read.

    2-Remove the back cover.
    3-Carefully remove the black cover tape completely
    4-Carefully remove the metal sheet. Be carefull not tho tear this. This is a vital component of the induction charger!
    5-Now, again, carefully, remove the electronic board, and the coil from the plastic back. Be careful not to damage anything. Take special notice the the thin piece of PCB near the copper contact points. This is very fragile!
    6-Get a piece of thin plastic sheet. i used 0.4 mm thick plastic packing material.
    7-Use a marker to draw the outline of the coil, and cut it out with scissors.
    8-Put the plastic under the coil in the backcover. Put the coil on top of it, and reposition the electronic board. Take care to put the board at the right place.
    9-Now th metal sheet, stick it on the coil, is such a way it covers most of it.
    see my picture where to position it excactly.
    10-Put the black tape back on, and you're done. Up for a test!

    My experience: 5 Problem combo's solved. No issue anymore.

    Theory: the coils are to close to each other. the spacing is very critical. That is why the Pixi does not have this issue: the back cover is different.

    Your mileage may vary. Remember: there are more variables in play here.
    Please give some feedback via the Poll above this thread.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Richard Rosenberger; 06/02/2010 at 09:20 AM.
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing!
  2.    #2  
    Part 2. I copied a part of the description for reference.

    1-Test if your <Bing-Bong> cycling issue dissapears if you put a business card between the touch stone, and the pre. If so: continue to read.

    2-Remove the back cover.
    3-Carefully remove the black cover tape completely
    4-Carefully remove the metal sheet. Be carefull not tho tear this. This is a vital component of the induction charger!
    5-Now, again, carefully, remove the electronic board, and the coil from the plastic back. Be careful not to damage anything. Take special notice the the thin piece of PCB near the copper contact points. This is very fragile!
    6-Get a piece of thin plastic sheet. i used 0.4 mm thick plastic packing material.
    7-Use a marker to draw the outline of the coil, and cut it out with scissors.
    8-Put the plastic under the coil in the backcover. Put the coil on top of it, and reposition the electronic board. Take care to put the board at the right place.
    9-Now th metal sheet, stick it on the coil, is such a way it covers most of it.
    see my picture where to position it excactly.
    10-Put the black tape back on, and you're done. Up for a test!

    My experience: 5 Problem combo's solved. No issue anymore.

    Theory: the coils are to close to each other. the spacing is very critical. That is why the Pixi does not have this issue: the back cover is different.

    Your mileage may vary. Remember: there are more variables in play here.
    Please give some feedback via the Poll above this thread.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Richard Rosenberger; 06/02/2010 at 09:21 AM.
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing!
  3. #3  
    Cool. I have 2 stones that have this issue. I have a spare back cover so I will give this a try tomorrow.

    Thanks for your hard work.
  4. #4  
    Thanks man. Have just done this mod now and my pre is charging on the TS with no issues so far, has gone from 70% to 96% without a single cycle.
    After this battery has charged I will change it to my other and use my other TS and see if still works as good.
    Will report my definitive results later after 2 or 3 charges and will vote then but is definitely lookiing positive so far.
    Btw I used plain paper instead because I had no plastic.
    And thanks again for posting some really detailed instructions.

    Edit: My pre has gone through 4 charges on the touchstone and is working perfectly. This has done the trick. Thanks again.
    Last edited by pip smith; 06/03/2010 at 12:24 PM.
  5. #5  
    If it's a flaw in the back cover, why does one of my backcovers ping-pong on one touchstone, but not on the other?
    Isn't the flaw in the touchstone?

    Great tutorial by the way!
    Gonna try it, as soon as I've had enough coffee for stability
    Last edited by tomi666; 06/04/2010 at 01:37 AM.
  6.    #6  
    No, it is the distance between the 2 coils. Apparently in one touch stone, the coil is positioned a fraction further from the top then the other. Overall it is a combination of things causing this. You can add approx 5 mm of material between the TS and BC. (My pre still charges IN the slip cover) So i concluded, in fact, that the coils are to close to each other in design.
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing!
  7. #7  
    Works like an charm!

    My whole cover peeled off with the metal shield still attached: EASY!
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 07/21/2010 at 08:24 PM.
  8. #8  
    Outstanding, I'm impressed !
  9. philesk's Avatar
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    #9  
    I have three Touchstones. Only one had the Bing-Bong effect. I think it was one I bought on sale at Best Buy which was probably a close out of an earlier unit. There is no way to tell from the box when a given Touchstone was produced. There is a number in VERY tiny print on the actual unit, but there doesn't seem to be a correlation since the defective TS had a 'higher' number than one which was OK. I suspect that Palm is aware of the problem and that there is a QA problem with Touchstones. AT&T's Palm Pre+ launch includes a Touchstone when you buy a Pre+. But, AT&T stores had no Touchstones in stock available for delivery. When I returned my defective Touchstone, I was told it would take several weeks to get another as they were on 'back-order'.
  10. JrrInTN's Avatar
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    #10  
    My problem has seemed to be that when I use the keyboard it then starts to have touchstone problems. It does this whenever I use the keyboard while on the touchstone (okay, learned not to do that) but a lot of times when I have it off -- after which I fix either by the business card method or a lot of times just by pressing the back several times.

    Anyway, this fix was relatively easy to do. Thanks for the detail and pics, Richard! After doing this with a piece of hard plastic from a clam shell packaging, it seems to work very well. It even had no problem when using the keyboard while ON the touchstone. I "voted" that it appears to be workng, but that I'll withhold full judgement until I've had a few days of use. Again for now, though, it seems to at the very least show some improvement.
  11. #11  
    As for those Chinese USB wall chargers/adapters, could we just short the data pins (D-/D+)? Would that make it work with the touchstone?
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Furuboru View Post
    As for those Chinese USB wall chargers/adapters, could we just short the data pins (D-/D+)? Would that make it work with the touchstone?
    Yes, but they need to be able to deliver a rock solid 5.1 - 5.5 volts @ 1A and most China aftermarket adaptors are not able to supply that.
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing!
  13. #13  
    I see. One last thing, I'm seriously considering to mod some existing USB wall chargers -- how do you measure a USB ports' voltage? My electrician friend was hesitant to use the tester probes on the USB pins...

    I'm thinking we could change an IC or resistor to get that 5.1 ~ 5.5 volts..

    Thanks again!
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Furuboru View Post
    I see. One last thing, I'm seriously considering to mod some existing USB wall chargers -- how do you measure a USB ports' voltage? My electrician friend was hesitant to use the tester probes on the USB pins...

    I'm thinking we could change an IC or resistor to get that 5.1 ~ 5.5 volts..

    Thanks again!
    ?? Why? The voltage mentioned are USB Standard voltages...... Is tat is not ok in the first place, don't bother.... Get the original Palm chargers, they are high quality, and work perfect. You cannot beat them.
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing!
  15. #15  
    I just shorted the data pins... and yep it works. AND I now *get* what you mean by "rock solid 5.1 - 5.5 volts @ 1A" -- apparently, my China USB charger can only go up to 650mA... so it charges, then stops, and charges again, then stops. The LED on the USB charger blinks in sync with the on and off charging my Pre is getting.

    Therefore, I will get a Palm branded USB charger. Now.

    Thanks again!
  16. #16  
    I just wanted to chime in here and let you know that my Touchstone (purchased as a kit direclty from Sprint when the phone debuted last year) just started exhibiting this problem. Meaning it's not solely a problem with new units. In fact, this TS worked perfectly for the past year. I guess if this is an issue of millimeters, jostling over time can explain it. I shall nervously attempt the mod above, and be prepared to run out for a new back cover when I fail horribly.
  17. #17  
    I just noticed that the touchstone (TS) at my work desk causes my Pre to have this cycling issue. But the TS at home works fine. Which means, the Pre (and back cover) is ok, and I must have done something to the TS at work.

    So here are the facts in my situation:
    - home TS works fine
    - work TS works intermittently
    - i sometimes press down (with the palm of my hand) on the Pre to slide the screen up while on the TS
    - the business-card-between-the-Pre-and-TS trick solves the cycling problem

    Additionally, if I take the card out and replace the Pre on the TS again, there's no cycling problem. BUT, if I leave it there for about 5 minutes or so, the charging notification problem starts all over again.

    Could it be a heat issue? The card between the Pre & TS may be working as a shield? But what caused this in the first place?

    I noticed that my work TS is sort of curved inward.. could that have been caused by my sliding the Pre screen up with my palm? That's the only difference I can think of between both TS's.

    What do you guys think? Is this a TS issue?
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Furuboru View Post
    I just noticed that the touchstone (TS) at my work desk causes my Pre to have this cycling issue. But the TS at home works fine. Which means, the Pre (and back cover) is ok, and I must have done something to the TS at work.

    So here are the facts in my situation:
    - home TS works fine
    - work TS works intermittently
    - i sometimes press down (with the palm of my hand) on the Pre to slide the screen up while on the TS
    - the business-card-between-the-Pre-and-TS trick solves the cycling problem

    Additionally, if I take the card out and replace the Pre on the TS again, there's no cycling problem. BUT, if I leave it there for about 5 minutes or so, the charging notification problem starts all over again.

    Could it be a heat issue? The card between the Pre & TS may be working as a shield? But what caused this in the first place?

    I noticed that my work TS is sort of curved inward.. could that have been caused by my sliding the Pre screen up with my palm? That's the only difference I can think of between both TS's.

    What do you guys think? Is this a TS issue?
    Try my mod. this will decrease the critical alignment. Pre-test it with a business card between the PRe and both TS's.

    Richard
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing!
  19. lakaw's Avatar
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    #19  
    I don't have this issue, but instead of dissecting the back cover, would a skin provide the same result? Something for those having issues to try first...
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by lakaw View Post
    I don't have this issue, but instead of dissecting the back cover, would a skin provide the same result? Something for those having issues to try first...
    This is excacly what i meant by: "Pre-test it with a business card between the Pre and both TS's."
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing!
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