Page 30 of 39 FirstFirst ... 202526272829303132333435 ... LastLast
Results 581 to 600 of 780
Like Tree3Likes
  1. jp99's Avatar
    Posts
    403 Posts
    Global Posts
    411 Global Posts
    #581  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    This is what my 9 month old Mugen 1400 initially read:

    getfull40 (MFG rating) = 1363.125
    getage (Health) = 94.53125
    capacity (Calculated left) = 1288.5791

    I had a problem with it dropping from around 20% to 0% instantly, so I used the Dr. Battery app to recalibrate it and now I get:

    MFG rating: 1363 mAh
    Health: 78%
    Calculated left: 1063 mAh.
    Trekker,

    This analysis is conjecture on my part, but I'm going to guess your battery was never a 1363mAh.

    Why? Your getage was 94.5% - that's based on how often you've charged/discharged your battery. Now it's at 78%, a significant drop.

    Let's say your battery, even though it had a MFG rating of 1363, was actually around 1150. You are now at 1063, so that gives you a getage of 1063/1150 * 100 = 92.4%. That's pretty close to your getage of 94.5% you originally had, and was decremented by each charging/discharge cycle.

    The problem with these extended batteries shows up when we try to figure them out after the capacity falls below that of a stock battery. Was it a high/fast life losing extended battery, or just a normal depleting stock battery?

    I tend to think the analysis should follow getage to give us a clue of the starting point. 1063 / .945 is about 1124 mAh, so that suggests a 1150 stock battery to me.

    Thoughts?
  2. #582  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    Trekker,

    This analysis is conjecture on my part, but I'm going to guess your battery was never a 1363mAh.

    Why? Your getage was 94.5% - that's based on how often you've charged/discharged your battery. Now it's at 78%, a significant drop.
    Yes, but it's at 78% AFTER calibrating it. The MFG rating still shows as 1363. I used the battery for 9-10 months, charging it each night, usually not letting it get below 40% or so before charging.

    Before the Dr. Battery app came out or the "getage" thread, I've read that you should let your battery discharge until your phone shuts off and then charge it at least once every 30 days, just to re-calibrate it so that the phone's battery meter would be more accurate.

    When the Dr. Battery app came out, I decided to finally let the Mugen 1400 discharge in order to do the calibration and noticed that it had the problem where at around 20%, it would drop to 0% in a few seconds. That's a sign of a calibration problem. So basically, the phone's battery meter thought the battery had an extra 20%, which it did not. Once calibrated, it's giving an accurate percent of 78. The question is, did my battery degrade 22% in the 9-10 months that I used it and charged it each night?

    Of course, I'd like to get a brand new Mugen 1400, see what it reads and also see if it discharges properly without the sudden dropoff. But, since the Pre OEM batteries are so cheap these days, I don't see myself buying a new Mugen.

    Thanks for the input, though! I'm still in learning mode about this whole issue and appreciate all comments/suggestions.
  3. #583  
    jp99 has right in the part of you don't know it after 9 month.
    Is it just a good 1150 or a bad 1363. But I've never saw a good 1150 having 1063 after 9-10 month daily use.
    I expect (the muggens) his muggen really had more than the stock 1150.
    We should check a new one.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by santos View Post
    I used Dr. Battery to check my Mugen 1400 battery. It seems it's listed as an 1150mah for the manufacturer rating. That stinks.

    I've been having a lot of problems with that Mugen battery too... it drains really fast or goes from 10% immediately to 0% saying I need to plug in or it's shutting down. I'm back to using my stock battery.
    The first time I heard that. I thought the muggens are save.
  4. jp99's Avatar
    Posts
    403 Posts
    Global Posts
    411 Global Posts
    #584  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    Yes, but it's at 78% AFTER calibrating it. The MFG rating still shows as 1363. I used the battery for 9-10 months, charging it each night, usually not letting it get below 40% or so before charging.

    Before the Dr. Battery app came out or the "getage" thread, I've read that you should let your battery discharge until your phone shuts off and then charge it at least once every 30 days, just to re-calibrate it so that the phone's battery meter would be more accurate.

    When the Dr. Battery app came out, I decided to finally let the Mugen 1400 discharge in order to do the calibration and noticed that it had the problem where at around 20%, it would drop to 0% in a few seconds. That's a sign of a calibration problem. So basically, the phone's battery meter thought the battery had an extra 20%, which it did not. Once calibrated, it's giving an accurate percent of 78. The question is, did my battery degrade 22% in the 9-10 months that I used it and charged it each night?

    Of course, I'd like to get a brand new Mugen 1400, see what it reads and also see if it discharges properly without the sudden dropoff. But, since the Pre OEM batteries are so cheap these days, I don't see myself buying a new Mugen.

    Thanks for the input, though! I'm still in learning mode about this whole issue and appreciate all comments/suggestions.
    I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

    Your battery, based on usage of charge/discharge, thinks it's lost about 5% of capacity before you reset it. That's just based on how you've used the battery so far. At 1363 mAh, that would be a loss of 68 mAh.

    You calibrate the battery, and you no longer have the 20-0 drop problem. The capacity now drops to 1063 mAh. And it does calculate the capacity at 78% (but that's a calculation).

    Now, if the battery algorithm based on your usage thinks you've only used it enough to drop around 5% (and that is the key point, because it's based on your usage) ... and you find, after recalibrating, you have 1063 mAh ... doesn't it make more sense to think you actually had a 1150 battery, even though the MFG rating was set at 1363? I'm not assuming the actual battery rating and the MFG value are going to be aligned correctly for each battery sold.

    See, I don't think the 20-0 drop is necessarily a calibration problem. It can also be a capacity problem, as in the battery is overstating its capacity.

    The way your Mugen behaves is exactly the way my Seidio behaved after I set the MFG to 1350 (it was 1150 from Seidio), and I got the sub 80% capacity like you. I bought my Seidio last August and it has been my near exclusive battery until a month ago. The only significant difference between our two batteries is the MFG rating, and that's assigned by the battery company - not a tested value. That's why I say the 20-0 drop problem can be a capacity issue (after setting MFG to 1350, I got the 20-0 drop problem before calibrating).

    The 20% to 0 drop problem makes good sense, if we think about this. The extended batteries should have about 20% more capacity than the stock 1150. It would drop from 100% down until it ran out of juice at the low voltage cutoff point. If the battery is actually 1150, this would be around the 20% point! And if a proper 1350-1400 battery, it should drop smoothly to 0.

    So, based on my testing of my Seidio, I wouldn't be too quick to assume you just had a calibration issue. If you are correct, then the algorithm is way off - you are degrading 4X faster than the algorithm calculation. That's suspicious to me. A 1.2X, 1.5X or maybe even 2X, the calibration could be off. But 4 times? That's why I wonder about an incorrect MFG value. Especially when, if you make the calculation based on an 1150 rating, the capacity drop would be pretty close to your 5.5% the battery thought it had lost. My Seidio showed a capacity loss of about 10% for an 1150 base, which is similar to you for roughly the same amount of usage using an 1150 base also.

    I won't belabor the point any more, but I think this idea has as much merit as the calibration issue for your battery. If we found someone with a new extended battery that actually had 1150 but had a MFG value of 1350 to 1400, that would be the proof it's possible yours had that issue. Meanwhile, I think much of this supporting data points toward a lower initial capacity.

    If this theory is wrong, then we need to explain why capacity drops isn't gauged correctly by the algorithm, and find a good reason for the 20-0 drops in extended batteries. The algorithm could be a poor predictor, and this may be why Palm says the batteries need to be changed out after hitting 80% capacity.

    Are users having problems with 20-0 drops with regular 1150 batteries?
  5. #585  
    My OEM does, but I have not had the opportunity to recalibrate it with drBattery yet.

    My Mugen works fine.
  6. jp99's Avatar
    Posts
    403 Posts
    Global Posts
    411 Global Posts
    #586  
    Good data point, thanks.

    Does your Mugen drop smoothly from 20%-0%?
  7. #587  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    Good data point, thanks.

    Does your Mugen drop smoothly from 20%-0%?
    Yes it does (just ran it down to recalibrate it). It is over 11 months old now and it still has 88% capacity. I tested it with the Dr. Battery App and it's original capacity was 1376. I have been very satisfied with my Mugen 1400 battery.
  8. #588  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    I think you missed the point I was trying to make.
    Are users having problems with 20-0 drops with regular 1150 batteries?
    Again very clever thinking and possible.
    I had the 20drop0 problem on stock 1150 reporting 1185 (the birthday of Dr.Battery ;-).

    We now have seen alot of people where the estimated health is far to high than the real (from 96% drop to 80% or even less). And for very few it was to low.

    So I think you can't compare the estimated health from one to another.
    I don't know what it is. Is it physics and every battery has it's own aging process? Is it different charging/discharging everyone is doing? I think I do know it's the same algorithm in the same chip doing this estimating.

    Even though I don't own such a 1350-1400 battery I do believe there are real once out there. Why does some Seidios read 1150 and others 13xx or what I've learned today some Muggens 1368 and some 1150.
    netwrkr9 is a good example of a satisfied user, always proud about his battery ;-)
    Who is writing the manufacturer rating and when into the chip? Is it done automatically by a first measurement or is it just a static number?
    EDIT: I personally think it's a static number. Palm is doing it right. Stamping (in most cases) 1185 into it knowing it is rated 1150. This is the suggested way documented in the manual of the chip.

    Why do we have different values in the same batteries?

    May be there exist only one company in china producing all these batteries and the Seidios, Muggens, Amzers and eBays just label them?
    Last edited by somline; 09/07/2010 at 12:13 AM.
  9. LHKJohn's Avatar
    Posts
    106 Posts
    Global Posts
    192 Global Posts
    #589  
    I was having the 20-0 drop in my stock 3 month old battery, so I purchased the Mugen 1400 extended battery. So far, hasn't happened since. Had it for 3 weeks now and so far, I'm seeing only a small increase in battery life. I think I may be using it a bit more lately though as well. Here's my readings...

    getfull40 1363.125

    getage 100.00
    Exhaust the body, Proceed the mind, Cultivate the spirit
  10. #590  
    Quote Originally Posted by LHKJohn View Post
    I was having the 20-0 drop in my stock 3 month old battery, so I purchased the Mugen 1400 extended battery. So far, hasn't happened since. Had it for 3 weeks now and so far, I'm seeing only a small increase in battery life. I think I may be using it a bit more lately though as well. Here's my readings...

    getfull40 1363.125

    getage 100.00
    Thanks it would be very interesting for us if you run the calibration with dr.battery on it and report the health you get.

    But I also would understand when you don't want to.
  11. LHKJohn's Avatar
    Posts
    106 Posts
    Global Posts
    192 Global Posts
    #591  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    Thanks it would be very interesting for us if you run the calibration with dr.battery on it and report the health you get.

    But I also would understand when you don't want to.
    Just downloaded dr.battery now. Will let you know what results I get. Do I have to run the calibration first? Because it says I have to be at a certain voltage to run, and I have about 75 percent battery now. It does however, read that I have 70 percent on dr.battery, and the percentage on my phone oddly reads 75. Why the difference in percentages?

    edit. nevermind, just read the directions. Will try it out tomorrow.
    Exhaust the body, Proceed the mind, Cultivate the spirit
  12. #592  
    thanks 4 your help. If you have questions feel free to ask. It's a long thread.
  13. #593  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    Now, if the battery algorithm based on your usage thinks you've only used it enough to drop around 5% (and that is the key point, because it's based on your usage) ... and you find, after recalibrating, you have 1063 mAh ... doesn't it make more sense to think you actually had a 1150 battery, even though the MFG rating was set at 1363?
    Yes, that's very possible. That's why I would like to try a brand new Mugen to see if it has the instant drop from 20%.

    I think these battery manufacturers are going to hate Dr. Battery.
  14. jp99's Avatar
    Posts
    403 Posts
    Global Posts
    411 Global Posts
    #594  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    Yes, that's very possible. That's why I would like to try a brand new Mugen to see if it has the instant drop from 20%.

    I think these battery manufacturers are going to hate Dr. Battery.
    I agree, they won't like it at all.

    I know the newer Mugens are showing the higher MFG rating, but I do wonder about the old ones actually being that high. I hope they are better than Seidio. I also wonder if Mugen & Seidio buy them from the same source.
  15. LHKJohn's Avatar
    Posts
    106 Posts
    Global Posts
    192 Global Posts
    #595  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    thanks 4 your help. If you have questions feel free to ask. It's a long thread.
    OK so here's my readings:

    Battery health 100%

    Mfr. rating 1363mAh

    Calculated left 1363mAh

    The wierd thing is, the actual percentage still reads about 4% lower than the phone display... Any ideas why?
    Exhaust the body, Proceed the mind, Cultivate the spirit
  16. #596  
    Quote Originally Posted by LHKJohn View Post
    OK so here's my readings:

    Battery health 100%

    Mfr. rating 1363mAh

    Calculated left 1363mAh

    The wierd thing is, the actual percentage still reads about 4% lower than the phone display... Any ideas why?
    Thanks for your effort.
    Did I understand this right? Did you successfully calibrate?

    Actual I don't know why percentage differ. This version 0.1.1 of Dr.Battery is reading this value through a file which is actual a function in the kernel.
    In the next version there (hopefully) is a scene where these values are read direct from the registers of the battery. I don't expect a difference between these.
  17. LHKJohn's Avatar
    Posts
    106 Posts
    Global Posts
    192 Global Posts
    #597  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    Thanks for your effort.
    Did I understand this right? Did you successfully calibrate?

    Actual I don't know why percentage differ. This version 0.1.1 of Dr.Battery is reading this value through a file which is actual a function in the kernel.
    In the next version there (hopefully) is a scene where these values are read direct from the registers of the battery. I don't expect a difference between these.

    Yup, sucessfully calibrated.
    Exhaust the body, Proceed the mind, Cultivate the spirit
  18. #598  
    Quote Originally Posted by LHKJohn View Post
    The wierd thing is, the actual percentage still reads about 4% lower than the phone display... Any ideas why?
    You need to install the "show actual battery percentage" patch. The stock Pre will show 100% battery on the top of the screen anytime the actual battery percent is between 94 and 100%.

    When you hook up your phone to the charger, it will charge to 100%, then stop charging until the battery drops to 94% and then start charging again. This cycle continues as long as the battery is being charged.

    I think Palm did it this way because people would pull their phone off the charger in the morning and wonder why it was only at 94%, so they made the display show 100%.

    If you install the patch, you will read the actual battery percent in the top bar.
  19. LHKJohn's Avatar
    Posts
    106 Posts
    Global Posts
    192 Global Posts
    #599  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    You need to install the "show actual battery percentage" patch. The stock Pre will show 100% battery on the top of the screen anytime the actual battery percent is between 94 and 100%.

    When you hook up your phone to the charger, it will charge to 100%, then stop charging until the battery drops to 94% and then start charging again. This cycle continues as long as the battery is being charged.

    I think Palm did it this way because people would pull their phone off the charger in the morning and wonder why it was only at 94%, so they made the display show 100%.

    If you install the patch, you will read the actual battery percent in the top bar.
    Awesome! I'll give it a shot
    Exhaust the body, Proceed the mind, Cultivate the spirit
  20. #600  
    Bought a Mugen 1400. Charged it overnight as directed (12 hours) then ran it until it powered off. Recharged completely (thanks for the posts above as I didn't know about the "actual batter" percentage) Dr Battery reported the health at 100% both mauf. and calculated rating at 1463mAh. I ran it down again and charged it to 100%. Dr Battery claimed "capacity left" at 1436MAh. On the 3rd discharge (this was over a period of about 3 days) I used Dr. Battery to recalibrate and, following an overnight charge, Dr Battery reported 1346mAh left.

Posting Permissions