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  1. #121  
    You could help by helping the porting process. The more things Open runs on, the more things that webOS can be run on. I know it sounds obvious, but the more places it's able to run, the more potential places someone else might take it.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
    Vistaus likes this.
  2. #122  
    @daexpression: The Pre 3 actually has quite a big screen. Of course it's not Samsung Note but it looks bigger than it really is because there is no virtual keyboard. Also, the Pre 3 is really fast and battery life is average (I get a full day out of it with normal usage, just like about every other smartphone with a battery <2300 Mah).
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    @steffes..

    I think what messed up the plans was the fact - those who decided on which model to release, didn't get the full feedback from the ground on what it took to win market share.
    Being a small company, I still assume Palm Inc. had focus groups and panel discussions on what some users wanted based on the demographics I assume that is where the design for the Pre came from...

    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    When the Pre was released - THE WOW factor was there, and the folks at Palm rested at their laurels thinking it was good enough - but unfortunately the Pre sucked in durability and performance.(And when i mean performance - it's relative to the OS. If the hardware cannot run OS at an acceptable speed, then either the hardware is insufficient OR the OS is not optimised). When the Pre 2 was out -- the market sentiment was bigger screens, slabs, high resolution and moving up to 4G, dual core, longer life battery etc.
    I never had a Pre, I came to webOS from a PrePlus, which was an upgraded Pre, it has more memory (RAM and NAND), and because of the newer parts, some say the PrePlus was faster in response to memory queries.
    I still am sporting the PrePlus (with a modified Pre2/PrePlus kernel and webOS 2.2.4), is it a speed demon no, I like the Plastic screen over the Glass, as Glass shatters, Plastic just cracks which one can fix cracks, fyi I have no cracks (there are signs of ripples or stress marks), even by the USB door, I have had a Verizon Case (which is designed for the TouchStone, allows sliding, and has fallen, split into it's two pieces, of which I snap them back on the PrePlus, seems to take the force of the fall and not harm the PrePlus), when Leo killed everything Verizon had a special on the Pre2, I snapped that up, free was nice, although it extended my contract for two years, it was worth it, I never switched to the Pre2, keeping the PrePlus with the mobile hotspot (hey I use this a lot), I know there is other options for tethering but I like unlimited data with 5gb hotspot as well... I am one of those that want a smaller phone, I do not want to talk thru my headset, back In the 1970 we had cellphones big bricks, that is what I see people using a brick to talk on the phone... I really like the Veer, but as it was never released as a world phone and does not have CDMA...

    Someday people will just talk into their wireless connected ear/microphone as the phone will be so big it will stay in the desk bag...

    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    Think about it..during that time, HP has at least 3 models to work on - Veer, Pre 3, and the slab. I understand during the conception stage anything goes and the models are cut down to a few, but it seemed the designers, the decision makers and even marketing at HP/Palm was clueless to what the market needed...
    I assume as the model number of all Palm devices start with a P, and the Veer is the last device to do this, that the Veer was a model that was produced when they were Palm and already in the building production phase?

    That being what it is the Veer (officially), got webOS 2.1.1 for WR and webOS 2.1.2 for AT&T, webOS 2.1.x is nice, but they should have pushed webOS 2.2.4 officially (again with the contracts and locks with AT&T, hurt them)...

    From the marketing side HP was now throwing lots of money at ADs I assume they have a bigger focus group/panel discussions...

    I saw the ADs for the Veer (for AT&T) and the Touchpad, they were trying to push very hard... but there are always three things in a supply/demand curve, price, that is what killed them, there was a demand, there was supply, but they had the wrong price, once the Touchpad went down to firesale prices, the demand showed how fast the supply could run out...

    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    From the Pre (plastic casing, poor battery life, under powered processor, memory issues - using the same as the Palm Treo)--to the Pre 2 (improved screen, but still poor battery life, memory issues) to the Veer - (under powered, poor battery, low memory issues) to the Pre 3..etc etc. Do you see a trend. HP/Palm technical designers could not sync up the hardware with the OS requirements - always going for the minimum. YET the dumb decision makers / marketers made missteps on which operator to sleep with, how to position the device etc etc... and the worst thing..to release a smaller Veer after the Pre 2. Maybe it was already manufactured and could not U-turn. So at least they should have released it at the lower end, and released the Pre 3 to replace the Pre 2...
    Again I really like the PrePlus, with the TouchStone charger... Plastic is better, I have heard oh my Pre3 took a fall and now it is a broken glass phone, one less rare phone... or others Pre2, took a fall, and it never came back screen cracked...

    Battery Life, this is a problem, my last phone the LG VX8300 went for weeks, not hours, yes weeks, I charged it on Sunday, and it had at least 40% on Friday, charging it over the weekend, every once in a while with heavy MP3/Video usage and lots of phone calls, it would only last 3 days... But still 3 days...

    This is a problem with batteries not something Palm or HP can solve, they can't even fix this in Car's yet (ever seen a Volt), this is a limitation of our technology at this time, either you have a brick of a battery, or you have a small phone, I have fixed so many electronics in my life, the biggest part in an electronic device has always been the battery, it has always been the weakest part...

    The battery in the PrePlus/Pre2 is not the same BP2 as in the Treo, it may look like the same, but underneath it is different, the old Palm batteries has 1150mAH, the newer one has 1183mAH, which does not sound like much, but it is the technology that is different, the 1150mAH battery would last half as long on a charge (I have both), where the 1183mAH battery lasted longer (tested this on my PrePlus, PixiPlus and Pre2), I got the same results the old battery lasted half as long doing the same things day to day...

    Now releasing the Pre2, Palm released the Pre2, during this time HP was buying Palm, in their webOSdev2010, they (Palm) even gave out the Pre2 to each person who attended, the works for the Pre2 to go to Verizon was already in the works, although they announced it at the Thing Beyond Event. The Veer was already in the works, was the next Pixi/PixiPlus with a Armv7 core, instead of the Armv6 core (which doomed the Pixi/PixiPlus, every developer had to re-write their PDK app to work on the Armv6 core), easy to fix JavaScript to accommodate the smaller screen, but PDK apps were not easy to fix, so there are two versions of games one for Pixi/PixiPlus and one for the Pre series and Veer, and if you bought one game for the PixiPlus and upgraded to a Pre series you had to re-buy that game and you lost the old game as it does not show up in the App Catalog for your device... What a mess... they should have never released a Armv6 core...

    I agree that they should have released the Veer and Pre3 (in at least the carriers that did not carry the Veer) at the same time, but they wanted to Veer to have a little lime light... Would have worked if it worked on my carrier, love the Veer (have one, with webOS 2.2.4 and TTS, but not connected to a plan)...

    They seemed to release each carrier separately instead of releasing a phone (like apple), they release the next iphone it is on all the carriers that offer it....

    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    In short -- poor communication between the s/w and the h/w group. Poor understanding / or inability to understand or forecast the direction of the general market trends and poor positioning by the marketing department PLUS inept decision makers on all levels screwed up the product plans and resulted in the screwup.
    The slab model here..is what Webos could have been. Seeing it is depressing, because we have not a chance to get this model, and it's not by choice..Guess the only choice is to stay with the Pre 3 till the world freezes or LG pulls a rabbit out of the hat..but that is if "pigs can fly". Any chance of miracles this year...I'd say 5% chance.
    I disagree, I thing the H/W and S/W groups worked well with Palm and with HP/Palm, I think the plan to give it all they could fell when Mark Hurd left, he saw the world shifting to mobile, he knew HP needed to be there and Palm and webOS was the way to do it...

    Android, Slate 7, what a joke!!! (again the supply/demand curve and that price issue), there is a demand for a Slate 7, there will be supply, but the price "Starting at $169 .99" quoted from the Slate 7 website (Slate 7 Tablet | HP Official Site) what a joke...

    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    You could help by helping the porting process. The more things Open runs on, the more things that webOS can be run on. I know it sounds obvious, but the more places it's able to run, the more potential places someone else might take it.
    Who is the statement related to? Open webOS is a joke, it can do nothing, it can run on nothing, it can be nothing....

    I have Open webOS running on devices, I have tested it, unless one ports from webOS 3.0.5, which I did, brought MoJo/MoJo2 all the frameworks, all the Palm apps (firstuse is not even there), brought all the APP-IPKGS over, it works then... but without that, stock Open webOS is webOS .0005 alpha and is a joke...

    Here is a life jacket, sorry the rope is short, sorry you have to inflate it, sorry, there is a hole...

    Hey community fix it... in the beginning before full release of Open webOS 1.0 they were sort of active, now they just stopped, no new Blog entries, no new things, wait they changed to LG, All the screens have LG, but now it will be on a T.V. what a joke...

    I want mobile, I want a tablet, I want a Phone, There is demand, create the supply, and price it right...

    I have many monitors, that connect to a set-top box, I do not want or need an all you can do T.V. so when one part fails, I need to buy a new T.V., most people do not want even the T.V. part, give us a monitor with a bunch of ports (HDMI, RCA, cable, Ant), so we can switch displays from the Blu-Ray, to the Disc, to the VCR (yes I still have lots of kids movies on tapes, why buy new ones besides making the movie companies richer that does nothing for me), Set-top box, etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    @daexpression: The Pre 3 actually has quite a big screen. Of course it's not Samsung Note but it looks bigger than it really is because there is no virtual keyboard. Also, the Pre 3 is really fast and battery life is average (I get a full day out of it with normal usage, just like about every other smartphone with a battery <2300 Mah).
    I do like the Pre3, it has a great screen, but the developers walked away so most apps suck or are not available, now you as a user can tweak an app to make it work, but the developers should have not the User.. the Battery is always an issue and always will be an issue... fyi one can make the virtual keyboard work on the Pre3, make it feel like a WindsorNot... ([PATCH] Virtual Keyboard)
    Last edited by John Steffes; 04/25/2013 at 09:09 AM.
    RumoredNow likes this.
  4. #124  
    Just a detail about the Veer has less TMC: with a lower resolution, need less space in memory.

    Informations to the high resolution in PrPrPr $3$, $need$ $more$ $space$...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Just a detail about the Veer has less TMC: with a lower resolution, need less space in memory.

    Informations to the high resolution in PrPrPr $3$, $need$ $more$ $space$...


    Best Regards...
    Personally, my Pre3 is almost 2y. First thing I did was homebrew tuning (Uberkernel, turn off logs...), never experienced TMC. The only time it happened was when I used my Phone from a fresh doctoring.
    Therefore I would blame it more on some software optimisation than actually the available RAM. Remember, 512 when the Pre3 was unveiled wasn't a shame at all.
  6. #126  
    FYI my Pre 3 has fallen a couple of times (I have it since around the Firesale started) and it doesn't even have a scratch. In the meantime, the screen of my mum her Lumia 820 broke with only a key scraping softly on the screen in her pocket. And that's Nokia for god's sake... So the Pre 3 is built way better in terms of screen quality.

    Also, I don't think the apps suck and there are still developers left and I was serious about getting a full day out of my Pre 3.

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    Also, I don't think the apps suck and there are still developers left and I was serious about getting a full day out of my Pre 3.
    What I meant by that is the Apps have to be scaled up to 1.5, they should notice the Pre3 new screen size and instead of scale, they should bring better details...

    Yes one can tweak the apps, with appinfo.json, metadata.json, index.html, etc... one can make an app work, USERS should never have to make an app work to the device...

    Or even worse the app is not available to download from the app catalog, sure one can use many homebrew tools to get the apps, but the developers who made those apps, should have updated their apps, made them use the full screen of the Pre3, there are ways to not scale 1.5, there is so much more detail a high res screen could show...

    But no App developers walked away from their title to let them die, even the ones we paid money for, which even say coming soon new levels... Nope not from them...

    I agree not all App developers walked away, there are even new ones popping in making new games... (I like this)...

    Again I think this shows a lack of moral character for big box developers, let me put out a game, then walk away and you paid us money, suckers....

    I am using webOS, I like webOS, I will continue to use webOS, until the main functions no longer work, until that time... maybe just maybe App developers will come back, update their apps, or worse pull them from the catalog... as I see so many doing...
    Last edited by John Steffes; 04/25/2013 at 10:32 AM.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    FYI my Pre 3 has fallen a couple of times (I have it since around the Firesale started) and it doesn't even have a scratch. In the meantime, the screen of my mum her Lumia 820 broke with only a key scraping softly on the screen in her pocket. And that's Nokia for god's sake... So the Pre 3 is built way better in terms of screen quality.

    Also, I don't think the apps suck and there are still developers left and I was serious about getting a full day out of my Pre 3.

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    im a big fan of webOS devices over the others i have, and i also have dropped my pre3 once, luckily so a soft landing, my touchpad however, not long after i got it, i dropped 3x when i fell asleep reading in bed, woke up with it lying on the floor and once i woke up finding id fallen asleep and rolled over onto it. id thought omg ive crushed it, no bends/cracks/nothing bad at all (got lucky there tbh).

    So yeah im a fan of how well my devices are holding up, my pre3 is still immaculate, my touchpad even after several drops onto a hard floor has no damage, the only blemish it has is a minor beginnings of a crack near the speaker as some often report but i cant see it anyways with my current case/cover.

    dispite all this, id have to say with regards to "build quality" or how sturdy devices are, imho its still pot luck regardles of what device your holding, be it a pre3, SGS3, iPhone or whatever else, if they land right, their largely ok, but if they land bad their all doomed and will burst into pieces regardless, esp if its screen first or on a corner.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
    Vistaus likes this.
  9. #129  
    N'other shout out to Derek!
    Looks like this 'WindsorNot' feature article has been around the planet a couple of times already now
    - and garnered many sighs and also much interest!



    @ #127 - Yes John - I for one, am *really* missing 'Error454's' otherwise excellent 'Touchplayer' App. reworked to suit Pre3 screen formating etc.

    Later: Actually I've just downloaded a this free MP4 converter: http://download.cnet.com/MP4-Convert...-10911826.html which conveniently has a preset for the HP Touchpad.
    This in turn allows many of those obscure vid:files to be viewed in landscape on the native Pre3 player anyhow..
    And presumably therefore, 'WindsorNot' too!

    Last edited by Mutoidi; 04/25/2013 at 07:01 PM.

    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
    USERS should never have to make an app work to the device...

    Or even worse the app is not available to download from the app catalog, sure one can use many homebrew tools to get the apps, but the developers who made those apps, should have updated their apps, made them use the full screen of the Pre3, there are ways to not scale 1.5, there is so much more detail a high res screen could show...

    But no App developers walked away from their title to let them die, even the ones we paid money for, which even say coming soon new levels... Nope not from them...

    I agree not all App developers walked away, there are even new ones popping in making new games... (I like this)...

    Again I think this shows a lack of moral character for big box developers, let me put out a game, then walk away and you paid us money, suckers....

    I am using webOS, I like webOS, I will continue to use webOS, until the main functions no longer work, until that time... maybe just maybe App developers will come back, update their apps, or worse pull them from the catalog... as I see so many doing...
    John Steffes,

    I have been saying the same things for years(just sometimes I hate those big name developers), about those WebOS apps that aren't updated anymore or they've stopped working that is still available in the HP Catalog costing average of 3 to 5 bucks that sometimes users accidentally downloads them. Later to find out that these apps aren't supported or not working(due to lazy developers who don't even care for customers only money $), totally makes me frustrated and angry at them....I even send almost daily emails rooting support pleading them to update these apps that they have neglected to update.

    And for me the most amazing part of this whole app tragedy on WebOS, it's that these developer continue to disregard any support for WebOS users and some have even erased on their sites all traces that they ever released an equivalent app for the platform. Some have responded back, to say that aren't considering WebOS at the moment, and it surprising because their apps are free on iOS and Android....Like if developing an simple app will cost them too much

    Wow, again John well-written post, same for me (despite envying some features in other platform like camera HDR effects/browser/Media Hub/Siri among other) WebOS user forever....Thumbs up
    Owner of an HP TouchPad (32GB) and a brand new Palm Pre 3 (16GB) for VZ wireless.
    cbosdell likes this.
  11. #131  
    It also happens on other platforms. Remember when EA last updated their games on Android? Yeah, neither do I.
  12.    #132  
    I had an exchange with Kessler on twitter - made the suggestion that given the WN's hardware similarity to the Pre3, the Pre3 OWOS (or maybe WOS3 can't remember) port that's being attempted (search it on the forums) could be hacked onto to the WindorNot.

    I get: "Im not going to waste my time trying to port a three-year-old OS onto a two-year-old prototype."
    https://twitter.com/dkdsgn/status/328309501298089985

    What an unexpected response from the guy who runs a community that's not only fascinated by that "two-year-old prototype," but devoted to that "three-year-old OS!"

    If I had the only surviving prototype of a piece of webOS history, I'd be doing everything I could think of to get it fully working. Then, that long rambling article posted on the front page could have been a true review rather than a collection of information already available in this thread.

    Disappointing.
  13. #133  
    If I had it, I wouldn't do anything that might end up bricking it either. Remember there is no dr for it. If something doesn't work, it's useless.
  14. #134  
    I'm sure a proper backup could be made like it was done for other rare devices in the past (Veer 2.2.4, Pre 3 2.2.5 for AT&T and VZW). Based on this I'm quite sure John Steffes could make a proper doctor :-)

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  15.    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    If I had it, I wouldn't do anything that might end up bricking it either. Remember there is no dr for it. If something doesn't work, it's useless.
    It's useless anyways, it can't get past the activation screen.
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    #136  
    I had an exchange with Kessler on twitter - made the suggestion that given the WN's hardware similarity to the Pre3, the Pre3 OWOS (or maybe WOS3 can't remember) port that's being attempted (search it on the forums) could be hacked onto to the WindorNot.

    I get: "I’m not going to waste my time trying to port a three-year-old OS onto a two-year-old prototype."
    https://twitter.com/dkdsgn/status/328309501298089985

    What an unexpected response from the guy who runs a community that's not only fascinated by that "two-year-old prototype," but devoted to that "three-year-old OS!"

    If I had the only surviving prototype of a piece of webOS history, I'd be doing everything I could think of to get it fully working. Then, that long rambling article posted on the front page could have been a true review rather than a collection of information already available in this thread.

    Disappointing.


    That is really...
    It's strange to hear from Derek, he was/is the leader of our online community platform indeed, so I thought better of him.

    I understand it is dangerous to fiddle with the software, as there is no backup, but way he choose his words.. F***ed up!


    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by g.vos View Post
    That is really...
    It's strange to hear from Derek, he was/is the leader of our online community platform indeed, so I thought better of him.

    I understand it is dangerous to fiddle with the software, as there is no backup, but way he choose his words.. F***ed up!


    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities

    *Maybe* a part of his agreement when he initially received the device, was that he didn't 'fiddle' with it?
    It may be one of very few 'out there' - and if bricked thus, would certainly be of even less 'interest'!


    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    It also happens on other platforms. Remember when EA last updated their games on Android? Yeah, neither do I.
    Other big box (Rovio) have updated there apps on Android/iOS, but ignore webOS, and we paid....

    Quote Originally Posted by quiestbml View Post
    I had an exchange with Kessler on twitter - made the suggestion that given the WN's hardware similarity to the Pre3, the Pre3 OWOS (or maybe WOS3 can't remember) port that's being attempted (search it on the forums) could be hacked onto to the WindorNot.

    I get: "Im not going to waste my time trying to port a three-year-old OS onto a two-year-old prototype."
    https://twitter.com/dkdsgn/status/328309501298089985

    What an unexpected response from the guy who runs a community that's not only fascinated by that "two-year-old prototype," but devoted to that "three-year-old OS!"

    If I had the only surviving prototype of a piece of webOS history, I'd be doing everything I could think of to get it fully working. Then, that long rambling article posted on the front page could have been a true review rather than a collection of information already available in this thread.

    Disappointing.
    Open webOS is webOS 3.0.5, stripped of close source code, still 2011 code based....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    If I had it, I wouldn't do anything that might end up bricking it either. Remember there is no dr for it. If something doesn't work, it's useless.
    Bricking the phone would be hard, do not flash touchpanel firmware, boot.bin, modem firmware, and a6 firmware (extract what is on the device)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    I'm sure a proper backup could be made like it was done for other rare devices in the past (Veer 2.2.4, Pre 3 2.2.5 for AT&T and VZW). Based on this I'm quite sure John Steffes could make a proper doctor :-)

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    If I got the extract of the files above, a memboot backup... I would be able to create a doctor...

    Quote Originally Posted by quiestbml View Post
    It's useless anyways, it can't get past the activation screen.
    Can't get past activation because he does not want to modify the code without a backup first...
    Isandunk and Remy X like this.
  19. #139  
    If I had anything remotely near the ability to do something like build a custom one-off port - which I don't - I wouldn't look at it as something worth pursuing. Especially when we're talking about an old old oooooold version of webOS here.

    If I had the ability, I would be looking at porting Open webOS onto the WindsorNot. Not only is it far far faaaaar more modern, it's software designed to run on a device of this design.

    But (again, if I had the ability), I don't think I'd be looking at it as a project worth pursuing. For one, the WindsorNot prototype is a museum piece. It's also a two-year-old phone, and like the more modern Open webOS, there's plenty of more modern and more capable hardware that isn't a priceless prototype.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
    RumoredNow and Grabber5.0 like this.
  20. #140  
    Absolutely. Given that you'll never get a set of drivers for it available for Open webOS, about the best thing that could be done is just trying to get a doctor built for it, and then never really messing with it. It really is a show piece, not a use piece.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
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